>i think you are missing the point entirely. the effort here is not
>to give a true phonetic representation of the assamese language,
>which anyway the roman alphabet cannot do.
Saurav:
I don't think I am missining the point. What Syamanta is offering here is a phonetic representation of each Assamese letter with IPA symbol. Jugal also says that he want to mix the sound system with the Rpman representation. If the idea is to come up with simple representation of each Assamese letter with a corresponding Roman letter, I donot see any problem. But if you are trying to show which letter represent what IPA sound as Syamanta is showing, then there is problem which I have shown. You need to make up your mind what you want to do. We cannot arbitrarly mix the sound system with Assamese letters.
Rajen Barua
>From: Saurav Pathak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Rajen Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [Assam] Transliteration Of Assamese Sounds
>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:53:53 -0400
>
>rajen-da,
>
>i think you are missing the point entirely. the effort here is not
>to give a true phonetic representation of the assamese language,
>which anyway the roman alphabet cannot do. the effort here is to
>"represent (letters or words) in the corresponding characters of
>another alphabet." which is the dictinary.com meaning of
>"transliterate".
>
>as jugal-da has said, there is a need to connect the assamese words
>and letters to the roman keyboard, and he has already said what that
>need is. each language has its transliteration. the chinese language
>has pinyin, for instance. in the past, transliteration for assamese
>was confined to proper nouns, and so an arbitrary standard could be
>adopted. but not any more. complete complex sentences have to be
>represented in an unambiguous way.
>
>you probably are confusing transliteration of assamese with the
>romanization of the language. if for instance you want to write the
>language is roman, then you may use a complex system like the
>vietnamese. then you are at liberty to redefine the sound for each
>consonant, use diacritic marks to peg the exact sound, etc. you may
>completely ignore the present sanskrit spelling, horso and dirgho e
>etc, and go exactly according to the sounds the language actually
>has. but that is not being attempted here. transliteration is not
>the same thing as romanization.
>(e.g, here is the vietnamese alphabet, and note how the sound of
>each letter has to be redefined).
>http://www.ask-group.co.uk/publish/vietnamesealph.htm
>http://www.arts.monash.edu.au/viet/language/alpha.htm
>http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Campus/6336/pronunciation.html
>
>note that even though vietnamese use the same looking alphabet as
>english, proper names etc are "transliterated".
>
>if you are interested in devicing a latin alphabet for assamese,
>strictly according to phonetics, that would be very interesting.
>
>saurav
>
>
>
>
>Rajen Barua said on AssamNet:
>
>+
>+ Saikia:
>+
>+ With due respect, I must say that you are trying to recreate the
>+ Assamese language wheel. Your analysis does not seem to be based on
>+ any scientific examination of the Assamese language but seems to be
>+ based on your imagination (or may be based on other Indian language).
>+ You seem to be creating more Assamese phonems than the language
>+ actually has. The standrad of the Assamese phonetics has long been
>+ established. These satandards can be found in books by authorties like
>+ Dr Banikanta Kakaoty, Dr Golok Ch Goswami and others. I don't know
>+ whether you are consulting any of these books or just trying to create
>+ something on your own. I think in order to avoid confusion we need to
>+ stick to the established standards unless of course you want to
>+ challenge them. For your information, I reproduce below the stndard
>+ vowel phonems of the Assamese language which is taken from the book
>+ "Structure of Assamese" by Dr Golok Ch Goswami.
>+
>+ Assamese has 8 vowel phonems which are shown below:
>+
>+ i .... (close, front) as in word 'bil'= lake (written by the Assamese
>+ letters horso and dirgho e)
>+
>+ e' ...... (half close, front) as in 'bel'= ghonta (written by the
>+ Assamese letter e)
>+
>+ e ...... (half open, front) as in 'bel'=fruit (written by the Assamese
>+ letter e)
>+
>+ a ..... (open, central) as in 'bap'=father (written by the Assamese
>+ letter a)
>+
>+ u .... (close, back) as in 'tumi' = you (written by the Assamese
>+ letters u & u')
>+
>+ o .... (half close, back) as in 'bwl'= color (written by the Assamese
>+ letter w)
>+
>+ o' ... (half open, back) as in 'bol' = let's go (written by the
>+ Assamese letter o)
>+
>+ a: .... ( half open, back) as in 'ba:l'= strength (written by Assamese
>+ letter o)
>+
>+ Hope this will give you a perspective of the language so that you may
>+ revise your analysis accordingly (unless of course you want to
>+ challenge them).
>+
>+ Your analysis of the Consonents also have the same problem. But I will
>+ not go into details here.
>+
>+ Rajen Barua
>+
>+
>+
>+ >From: "S Saikia" >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To:
>+ [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [Assam]
>+ Transliteration Of Assamese Sounds >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:19:02
>+ -0500 > > > > >hi everyone.... > >Good Morning ! > >First of all I
>+ would like to thank everyone for carrying on a >tremendous discussion.
>+ The last few posts pointed out the drawbacks >of my system in a very
>+ glaring manner... I have presented below a >modified system
>+ incorporating the major modifications so that, just >as Jugal sir and
>+ C. Mahanta da sayd, we know where we stand.... > > > >VOWELS >
>+ >Transliteration Suggested Sound/IPA _expression_ >--------------
>+ ------------------------------------------ >o .............. Near-Open
>+ Central Unrounded(Inverted a)** >a ............. Open Front Unrounded
>+ (Lower case a) ** >i .............. Close Front Unrounded (Lower case
>+ i) >ii or I ........ Close Central Unrounded (Barred i) >u
>+ .............. Close Back Rounded (Lower case u) >uu or U ........
>+ Close Back Un-Rounded (Turned m) (???) >rri or ri....... Near- Close
>+ Front Un-Rounded (Small Capital I)** >e .............. Open- Mid Front
>+ Unrounded (Epsilon) >oi ............. Close-Mid Central ROunded
>+ (Barred O )** >oo ............. Close- Mid Back Rounded (Lower Case O
>+ )** >au ............. Close- Mid Back Unrounded (Baby Gamma ) >
>+ >CONSONANTS** > >While introducing consonants, we do it by adding the
>+ generic form of >the consonant with the first vowel. Since the first
>+ vowel is >transcribed as /o/ instead of /a/ in this table, so all
>+ >consonant-endings change to an o-ending.. > >Transliteration
>+ Suggested Sound/IPA Symbol >------------------
>+ ------------------------------------------- > >ko .............
>+ Voiceless Velar Plosive (Lower Case K) >kho ............ Aspirated
>+ Ka(???????) >go ............. Voiced Velar Plosive (Lower case g) >gho
>+ ............ Aspirated ga (????????) >nno or N^o ..... Voiced Uvular
>+ Nasal (Small Capital N) >sho ............ Voiceless Aveolar Fricative
>+ (Lower Case s)** >shho ........... Voiceless Post-Aveolar Fricative
>+ (Esh)** >jo ............. Voiced Postaveolar Fricative (Yogh) >jho
>+ ............ Palatalised ja ( ja^j) >jjnno or niyo .. Voiced palatal
>+ Nasal(Left tail N at left)** >tto or To ...... Voiceless Aveolar
>+ Plosive (Lower case T) >ttho or Tho .... Aspitated Ta (tta^h) >ddo or
>+ Do ...... Voiced Aveolar Plosive (Lower case D) >ddho or Dho ....
>+ Aspirated Da (dda^h) >nno or No....... Voiced Aveolar Nasal(Lower Case
>+ N) >to ............. Voiceless Retroflex Plosive (T with Right Tail)
>+ >tho ............ Aspirated ta (ta^h) >do ............. Voiced
>+ Retroflex Plosive (Right Tail D) >dho ............ Aspirated da(da^h)
>+ >no ............. Voiced Retrofelx nasal (N with right tail) >po
>+ ............. Voiceless Bilabial Plosive (Lower Case p) >pho
>+ ............ Voiceless Bilabial Fricative (Phi) >bo .............
>+ Voiced Bilabial Plosive (Lower Case b) >bho ............ Voiced
>+ Bilabial Fricative (Beta) >mo ............. Voiced Bilabial Nasal
>+ (Lower Case M) >yo ............. Voiced palatal Fricative (Curly Tail
>+ J) >ro ............. Voiced Aveolar Approximant (Turned R) >lo
>+ ............. Voiced Aveolar Lateral Approximant (Lower Case L) >wo
>+ ............. Voiced Retroflex Lateral Approximant(l with >tail)(?)
>+ >xho ............ Voiceless Labiodental Fricative (Lower Case F) >xhho
>+ ........... Voiceless Epiglottal Fricative (Small Capital H) >xo
>+ ............. Voiceless Uvular Fricative (Chi) >ho .............
>+ Voiceless Glottal Fricative (Lower Case H) >ksho or xo .....
>+ Aveolo-palatal Fricative (Curly Tail C) >jyo ............ Voiced
>+ Palatal Approximant( Lower case J) >ro(?) >ro(?) > > > > >The sounds
>+ with ** have been modified... From the very constructive >discussion
>+ three drawbacks of the system has been found... > >1. The
>+ transliteration system is not intuitive as far as the first >vowel
>+ sound is concerned. whether it should be /a/ or /o/ >2. The use of
>+ "cha, chha" . >3. The similar pronunciation of i/ii , u/uu, cha/chha
>+ etc. > >My reason for sticking with /a/ instead of /o/ as the first
>+ vowel >was more phonetic than practical. In hindsight I think /o/ is
>+ more >natural for us and so I have replaced /a/ with /o/ . As a
>+ result, I >had to change the old /o/ as in konoba(someone) to
>+ koonooba. (I am >not sure how much phonetic or practical /oo/ is and
>+ it would be >great if someone comes up with an alternative). Also /aa/
>+ has been >changed to /a/. (thanx due to the intial posts of rajen da).
>+ > > >"cha, chha" has been changed to "sha, shha" respectively as
>+ adviced >by Jugal Sir to make it sound more khar khoowa, even though i
>+ am not >sure if i am more comfortable with chhatro than with shhatro
>+ >(student). > >As far as i/ii, u/uu goes I am in a fix. I donot know
>+ what to do ! >If I drop the practically redundant sounds from the
>+ Assamese >alphabets, I lose the one-to-one correspondence that is the
>+ backbone >of any successful transliteration scheme. I guess Assamese
>+ people >will have to put up with this bit of inconvenience. > >As far
>+ as the IPA pronunciation of the alphabets are concerned I >would be
>+ greatful if someone bothers to check them and point out the
>+ >inaccuracies........ > >Thanking you again, > >Syamanta Saikia >
>+ >_________________________________________________________________
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>+ References
>+
>+ 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMDENUS/2731??PS=
>
>--
>saurav
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