No problem at all, they could be darker (even better!). Anyway it’s quite a good idea IMHO. If some like overwounds they can always use just…ocerwounds;) I really can’t see any point in imitating overwounds. Please let us know if you make a new stiffer batch.
JL > On 02 Feb 2017, at 10:53, Mimmo Peruffo <mperu...@aquilacorde.com> wrote: > > Well, Tony Bailes mailed me that: > > Writing in 1629 Francis Bacon stresses that low strings should produce a bass > sound: “for we see, that in one of the lower strings of a lute, there > soundeth not the sound of the treble, nor any mixt sound , but onely the > sound of the base.” > > Mimmo > > ps: I can made them less stretchly using a different elastomer. the problem > is that they became a bit darker in the sound. Any suggestion? I am ready to > start with the big batch. I am a bit worry about those that like that they > are in some way still close to the wound strings > > > -----Messaggio originale----- From: Martin Shepherd > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 10:26 AM > To: Mimmo ; Matthew Daillie > Cc: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing > > Dear All, > > If we're really interested in how lutes might have been strung > historically, I think it's important to take the historical evidence > (very little of it, I know) as a starting point, rather than the habits > of modern players using modern strings. > > We have a lot of iconographic evidence (plus the evidence from measuring > bridge holes) that bass strings were rather thin - so the conclusion > that they were more dense than a plain gut string seems pretty well > inescapable. > > Having said that, the tensions which modern players expect may be too > high, for several reasons. One is that we are accustomed to wound > strings, which are very flexible and don't work at all well if they are > at too low a tension. A related problem is that modern players tend to > play much further from the bridge than their historical counterparts. > > Another issue is that we have tended to assume roughly equal tension > across all the strings, so we have not experimented much with a tapering > of tension as we go down into the bass. One interesting aspect of the > iconography is that strings get progressively thicker as they go down > into the bass, but not as much as one would expect if the tensions were > equal. To make this concrete, for a descent of an octave (maintaining > equal tension) the string should double in diameter, so the 6th course > on a 6c lute should be nearly twice the diameter of the 4th. > > On the subject of string diameters, Mimmo estimates the thinnest string > which could have been made in the past as .42-.44mm. Single top strings > will need to be a higher tension than the individual strings of a > course, but even so it is more or less inevitable that the tension must > be tapered to some degree, otherwise bass strings (and tension) would be > enormous. Mimmo has recently written that equal tension is different > from equal "feel", and I agree with his suggestion that (in order to > maintain equal feel) thinner strings should therefore be at a higher > tension than thicker ones. I have done this as a matter of instinct for > many years - using a higher tension on the second course than on the > third, for example. As an aside, I note that most of us have tended to > use octaves at a lower tension than the fundamentals, but the string > table in the Gaultier book (discovered by Andreas Schlegel), and my more > recent experiments, suggest perhaps a more equal tension. > > As far as the characteristics of the strings is concerned, there are > some apparent contradictions in the historical evidence. Many paintings > give the impression that the strings were very floppy (compared to > modern gut strings), with lengths of spare string dangling from the > pegbox. On the other hand, one of the tests for a good string > recommended by Dowland is "stiffness to the finger" (assessed before > putting the string on the lute by pressing the end of the string to see > how bendy it is). In terms of elasticity, Mace talks about a string > stretching "an inch or two" in the winding up - suggesting a string much > more elastic than almost any modern string. > > Then we come to another apparent contradiction on the area of modern > experiments. I have found the Savarez KF strings (made from PVDF, much > more dense then gut, so perhaps more like a "loaded" gut string as far > as density is concerned) work very well, in spite of being very stiff > and not very elastic. They also work well at lower tensions than other > types of string. They are usually pretty true, and that helps. The > implication seems to be that a string which is sufficiently dense (and > can therefore be thin) doesn't need to be very elastic in order to > work. I don't know how to reconcile this with the historical evidence, > but it occurs to me that there is a difference between elasticity > (stretchiness) and "sideways flexibility" or "floppy flexibility" (which > it seems the old strings may have had). Think of the difference between > an rubber band and a piece of household string - the cotton string is > very floppy but has very little elasticity. All things considered I > would definitely be interested to see Mimmo make a string with lower > elasticity. Trueness is paramount - if a string is even slightly false > the irregular pattern of vibration will make it rattle against the frets > and it will never sound well even as an open string. > > Just a few thoughts for you to chew on.... > > Martin > > On 02/02/2017 07:20, Mimmo wrote: >> Well, I can add a few informations >> There are no production problems it shelf. I had an extruder broken so I was >> obliged to wait the time to fix it. After that I finished the raw material. >> I received it a week ago. >> They has more amplitude in the vibration whose problem is mostly because one >> should compensate the lack of tension when the strings are under tension. In >> practice they became thinner that any wound strings. In short, if the >> equivalent gut by calculation is 145 I raccomand to install a 150 instead. >> So under tension the final gauge will be the suitable one. >> Yes, there is no problem to switch to a more stiffer plastic blend. The >> problem is that we lost a bit of brightness. Is it a good idea ? I do not >> know, people has the wound strings sound in comparation. >> Take care >> Mimmo Peruffo >> >>> Il giorno 01 feb 2017, alle ore 23:34, Matthew Daillie >>> <dail...@club-internet.fr> ha scritto: >>> >>> Of the main copper-wound strings available, the fullest sounding and >>> brightest are the Kürschner followed by the Savarez, then the Aquila Ds and >>> lastly the Aquila DEs, which are pretty dull (and are no longer being made >>> although several retailers still have quite large stocks available). >>> >>> As far as I am concerned the jury is still out on the Aquila loaded nylgut. >>> Many of us have high hopes but there are production problems (there has >>> only been one batch so far and many diameters are unavailable) and some >>> strings can have considerably sideways amplitude when plucked (even causing >>> them to catch neighbouring strings!) as well as intonation issues (but that >>> is also true of a lot of wound strings). >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Matthew >>> >>>> On 01/02/2017 22:25, David Rastall wrote: >>>> It seems I am back playing Baroque lute once again, after rather a long >>>> hiatus. It’s been long enough that I have forgotten some of the points of >>>> conventional wisdom concerning stringing. I’m playing an 11c lute >>>> currently strung with silver-wound basses and Pyramid nylon mids and >>>> trebles. I’m not so much bothered by the sustain of the nylon strings, >>>> but if you folks can refresh my memory: what is the best choice of basses >>>> to get a sustain which is not downright thunky or chunky, but has shorter >>>> sustain than the silver-wounds? >>>> >>>> David R >>>> >>> >>> >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >
