Thanks Jaroslaw,
good report indeed.
Actually I have not in mind the business side, it is just my love for such
instrument, passion, i mean.
In short, I would like to do something that is 'emotional'. Hared toi
explain, it is something related to me and my feel when I hear a Lute. The
Bacon writting is almost clear to me and i feel in this way.
Said that, it is very interesting your comparation of the CD's with the KF
ones and with the Venices
I am thinking that these CD's are to much performant than the necessity.
So I am going to prefere the second option: at the end of the day it solve
also a lot of meccanical problems
Mille grazie
Mimmo
(thanks Anthony)
-----Messaggio originale-----
From: Jarosław Lipski
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 11:39 AM
To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Mimmo,
You experience is that a roped string is duller than a plain gut? I have
the contrary. Maybe it is necessary to know how the roped string was
done. Mine is a roped string made with two fresh 'brins' twisted like as
rope and then polished. In practice our Venices.
Yes, I use your Venice roped strings and can confirm this. They are brighter
than plain gut
I would like to buy some KF strings just to do a comparation:
I have both KFs and your CDs and compared them side to side. KFs have
shorter sustain, are more percussive and …slightly duller sound IMO. KFs
work well till 11th course on BQL. I don’t like them on diapasons. CDs have
stronger fundamental, longer sustain (much longer than guts) and work very
well on diapasons, however their elasticity make them work only on
instruments with higher than normal action and wide string spacing. Also
tuning is not ideal.
Heck, guys, what to do? first or second option?
At present the second option is the winner!
Now, the question is what is your goal in making CD strings. If you aim at
finding a substitute for gut strings than stiffer strings would be better. I
am used to gut basses so I like short sustain and a little bit stiffer
string. If someone played only overwounds he/she would probably prefer
longer sustain. So the answer to your question will depend on whom you’ll
ask.
All in all there is no one answer to this question, and probably you would
have to take into consideration your business strategy.
Best
Ciao
Jaroslaw
ciao to all
Mimmo
-----Messaggio originale----- From: Martin Shepherd
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 10:22 AM
To: Mimmo Peruffo ; Matthew Daillie
Cc: Arto Wikla ; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Thanks, Mimmo.
I agree absolutely that there is no need to make versions of these
strings thinner than .80mm.
The issue of damping is perhaps the one which worries me most. In the
case of roped strings, they sound duller than a plain gut string of the
same size, presumably because of internal friction between the strands
of the rope. In the case of rubber strings (sorry!) what worries me is
that some damping/absorption of energy is happening as the string
stretches and contracts with each vibration. The KF fluorocarbon
strings, being solid and stiff, have neither of these damping effects.
I can imagine that a string which was "floppy" but not especially
elastic would work well.
I hope that a lower rubber content would allow the strings to slide
better over the nut, which would also be a welcome characteristic.
Best to all,
Martin
On 03/02/2017 10:09, Mimmo Peruffo wrote:
Thank you very much about all these helpfull suggestions, guys.
actually the gauges from 80 CD till 105CD are made half loaded using also
a stiffer elastomer. This combination is perfect fo the tonl trasiction
betweenj pure gut/nylon/Nylgut to a wound strings, KF or CDs etc etc.
I call this range of gauges simply as Meanes. they are still CD types
however.
In practice they are around the 5th course of renaissance & d minor
Lutes.
I have intentionally exluded the 4th courses because make not sense at
all to use a denser strings on it. The 80 CD is just done for those that
are curious.
well, I done the very first prototypes (than cannot be perfect) and sent
out to some friends to hear their opinions: of course, some of them were
uneven. Despite that I had very good reports.
Some installed them also like octaves (!): I never realized that
additional option. However, I do not raccomend. Octaves normally can
works at higher working index than a 5 th course; so they can breack.
said that, I agree with you Matthew. thanks
Martin, a stiffer string has an higher elasticity modulus so the
performances are less good than those of an equivalent string with more
elasticity. You probably reffers to the KF strings. However there are
others parameters at work here, for example the inner damping effect is
one of them, and it is not related to the elasticity modulus. This
explain for example why a special kind of nylon, whose density is far
less than fluorocarbon sound like this one. It was a huge surprise to me!
I am thinking that you guys prefer the second option. To me is even
better, it help to solve some problem becausew they sometime stick on the
nut slots/ grooves.
False strings? yes, with prototypes can happen. when one start with the
ufficial production an extruder plant work exatly in the same even way.
The first strings are the waste and then the rest are done exactly in the
same way.
well, I am leaving italy to London so I have not time to re start; I will
do some samples both for meanes and basses just to see if they actually
works in the proper way
Be patient again; i cannot be too fast here.
Mimmo
-----Messaggio originale----- From: Martin Shepherd
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 9:35 AM
To: Matthew Daillie ; Mimmo Peruffo
Cc: Arto Wikla ; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Tout à fait d'accord, Matthew.
I would add that "trueness" is not just a question of intonation when
notes are fretted. A false string never sounds in tune even as an open
string, and the pattern of vibration makes it buzz against the frets.
If your string heights are high enough that this isn't a problem,
they're too high.
I don't know whether the samples I had from Mimmo some time ago are the
same as the current production, but I thought they were too elastic. He
did say he was going to make a less elastic version for the thinner
strings, but I don't know whether he's implemented this idea or not (can
you tell us, Mimmo?). I'm slightly puzzled by the suggestion that the
less elastic version would have a duller or darker sound, I would almost
expect the opposite - as a comparison, the KF strings are very stiff but
sound bright.
It would be such a shame if after all his efforts we end up with a
string which is not as good as the old loaded gut. Actually the new
string needs to be better than that in terms of trueness.
Best wishes to all,
Martin
On 03/02/2017 09:06, Matthew Daillie wrote:
Dear Mimmo,
In my opinion there are two factors which need to be given priority even
before judging the sound of a string. Firstly it has to be true (with no
problems of intonation going up the fingerboard for stopped strings) and
secondly it has to be playable: on a well-made and well set up lute, it
must not catch on the nut, buzz, hit a neighbouring string, hit against
the fingerboard, or cause any other extraneous noises. If a string has
the potential to sound wonderful but does not meet these two criteria,
then it is of no use whatsoever.
Once that is established, obviously players want a string with a
full-bodied and stable tone, enough sustain to make voice-leading a
pleasure and the instrument to sing to the best of its ability and
sufficient power to provide convincing projection and resonance.
Personally I am looking for a warm and sweet tone with precise
fundamentals and enough overtones to make the timbre rich and variable.
Oh dear, that does sound like a holy grail doesn't it?
Fingers crossed!
Best
Matthew
On Feb 3, 2017, at 8:29, Mimmo Peruffo <mperu...@aquilacorde.com>
wrote:
Thank you for the suggestion Arto.
Unfortunately i cannot do it
I already image how confuse the thing will be with the customers.
This mean the eford to mannage twice products and honestly I do not
like to add cofusion in the factory and with customers already
stressed
by me!
I should do a choice and in fast time: is it better a more elastic
string like these are (whith problems related to the fact that maybe
stretch tooo much and that the sound is too bright) or it is better
to
switch to a less elastic plastic support with the advantage that it
stretch less, the sound is darker and with less sustain?
Hard to do the choice: both solutions are ok; i already tried the
second option that is similar to the loaded gut strings
Even Anthony Bailes suggested me the second option.
Strings or not to strings? this is the question
ah ah
(my poor english at work)
Ciao
Mimmo
ps
which are your suggestion guys?
-----Messaggio originale-----
From: Arto Wikla
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:46 PM
To: Mimmo Peruffo ; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Dear Mimmo,
if you decide to make the loaded nylgut strings (CD) less elastic, I
hope (and wish and urge ;-) ) that you keep also the original elastic
version in your repertoire! They work exceptionally well on my Harz
arclute, great stuff.
And big thanks for your invaluable work!
Arto
On 02/02/17 14:03, Mimmo Peruffo wrote:
Well, seeing this post I have the idea to switch to these stiffer
ones.
at the end of the day they are closer to those loaded strings made of
gut.
I will do some samples in advance.
Mimmo
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
