Cathy Mayton
Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:02:55 -0800
Dear Barb, This last email you sent regarding finding out what makes the ABB sheep tick is right on. I recently wrote to a gentleman in the Bahamas who has a flock of BB and I asked him how he mananged his sheep. He did not give me a direct answer but told me that my sheep are "wild". I was not sure exactly what he meant by that. What he was referring to, is that the ABB was bred for hunting purposes and it has not been too many years that the ABB has been embraced by shepherds such as yourself. I am considered a "newbie" since it has been less than 2 years of owning my small flock. What I did notice is the "goat-like" behavior of these sheep. How many wool sheep do you see standing on their hind legs to strip leaves from trees? I had a couple Suffolk for a short time because my husband wanted to cross the Suffolk with one of my rams. If you had a chance to read the article I wrote for the membership, I mentioned that I periodically let my ewes out to graze in the front and side yard. The Suffolk ate the fallen leaves but did not try to eat the leaves off the trees nor did they strip bark off the trees. My ABB flock now head out to eat the fallen branches off the willow tree and then they go out front to eat the branches off the shrubs. MAYBE if they get bored they will literally "graze on the grass" but that is not their first choice. In the spring I can't let them out because the eat all the tender shoots off the trees and shrubs and they bounce around from one shrub to the other especially if one thinks a "gold mine" has been hit. Yes, mine mostly get a small amount of grain twice a day and alfalfa but I also give them veggie scraps which they love. I used to throw away the hulls from the pistachio nuts I eat but they love them too. They also love green weeds and dried up ole tumbleweeds. I give them all of this. I think we have to do the best we can within our means and areas that we are growing these sheep. You are doing your very best. I also culled heavy last year for wool and if a ewe does not take care of her lambs then she will go down the road. In the wild it would be "survival of the fittest". I don't believe there is a right way or wrong way to feed our sheep, we all just have to do our best and be critical enough to know when to cull. If there is an undesirable trait, no matter how sweet the animal is, than maybe it is best to cull them from the breeding line. If the animal is sweet and someone would like to have it for pet than it is a win-win for you and the sheep. I do believe that these are not just "grass sheep" like the woolies. I think these sheep would have a blast if they were able to run in thickets and be allowed to forage on the plants and shrubs in the thickets. I wonder if they like kudzu that grows in the Southeast? They might be great "for hire" to clear areas thick with kudzu and other undesirable plants. I have read articles regarding "goats for hire" that do this very thing. We have however, fenced in our sheep and so they must survive on what the shepherd gives them. Just my thoughts.............................. Cathy Mayton LeapN' Lambs On Jan 21, 2008 10:52 AM, Barb Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ya know Cecil, I received some startling advice on raising these sheep > that came from a non-sheep person. He said that when I obtained exotic > animals (and whether we like it or not, we are dealing with an exotic > animal), it became my responsibility to know more about them than > anybody on the planet. Otherwise they would die, and it would be my > fault - felony ignorance. He had a clarity of insight that amazed me. > Without knowing much about the sheep, he summed it up...They are out of > their natural environment, they are offered feed they may not be adapted > to, they are not acclimatized (very few of my remaining sheep come from > this area), they are a combination of opposing reproductive > characteristics. He told me I had to know more about them than the > vet...I had to know more about them than anyone else in the > area...because if I was going to raise them successfully, **I** was > going to have to adapt to **them** in order to work through the process > of adapting my particular flock to my circumstances. > > As we - or I - wade through the challenges of understanding what I can > do with them and what I cannot, we have to keep in mind that Industry is > pushing Livestock producers to absorb the waste products of ethanol > production. They do this by publishing a nutritional analysis and > letting us find out for ourselves if the physical body can utilize > foodlike substances not found in nature. You can just look into any > feedlot and see the sickness that alternative feeds with apparently high > nutritional profiles wreak on the animals there. Ag has always been a > dumping ground for industrial waste. My farrier raises pigs and he says > that distillers grains and corn gluten meal, et al are not successful > for raising pigs. Why??? It has the nutrition, but for some reason, the > pigs can't use that nutrition. It's like me finding out the "fatal > flaw" in beet pulp...first of all I propose that the animals do not have > the gut capacity for large quantities of forage...and then I attempt to > feed them beet pulp, which has nearly the same nutritive value as corn, > but is enormously bulky. The feed value may be the same, but the way > the body handles it is what defines whether it will be a successful > feed. As an interesting side note, beet pulp is so expensive these days > because it's being used in pet foods. Dogs are not adapted to beet > pulp, but it has high nutritional value...see where I'm going with > this?? What kind of food allergies are going to crop up in the next > generation of pets? Better market for steroids. Another interesting > side note is that the Chinese have tried putting some nordic flounder > genes in beet pulp to get them to grow in colder climates. I don't mind > if the dog eats flounder, but I'm not too keen about feeding a > flounder-sugar beet bastard to my sheep. And I have no idea where my > beet pulp originates. > > You seem to be experiencing the same discouraging results with an > "alternative" feed - the blackbellies refuse to adapt to it. So...??? > The bottom line is do you have the financial means to absorb the > experiments, while you continue to adapt your sheep, or do you just > sensibly dispose of the poor doers and build your flock according to > what makes the most economic sense. I have the luxury of not expecting > any serious income from the sheep, but I AM getting tired of absorbing > the losses. I desperately wanted to be a 100% grass farmer, but now I > see that dream slipping away. My problem is, I am too stubborn to give > up the notion that I can adapt my registered flock to meet my > expectation (I have a few that never disappoint me). It's getting to be > an expensive hobby though. I love the lamb so much, I do not want to > risk outcrossing. I have even been thinking about infusing some polled > blood into the flock (these would never be registered as AB), to see if > I could improve reproductive performance without going outside the > blackbelly. Actually my best performing lamb this year is a ram lamb > with tiny little horn buds - he's almost smooth headed. Where did that > come from in a flock with very good horns!! What's the connection? The > ewe, a registered AB, milked like a cow and has a pedigree of horns. > > My dilemma is now, whether several more years of selection for a higher > plane of performance within my AB flock will be repaid in value added to > the sale of proven breeding stock, or if I should just stick to meat > production. There is little point in continuing to register animals if > the goal isn't to improve them. It's a big problem, because I would > like to some day make exceptional quality breeding stock available to > other producers, but not for $45 a lamb...more like $450 a lamb. If I > give up on that, I lose half my interest in my work. > > But in order to improve them, I need to understand down to the molecular > level, what makes them tick. White or lighter coloring might come from > an infusion of domestic blood that could carry more fertility than the > Mouflon ancestry. We should ask the Painted Desert people...if Anita > Garza's history of the Corsican is accurate - and I believe it is - the > P.D. and the Texas Dall are actually the ones with the Rambouillet > blood, not so much the AB. If that is so, then the P.D. is going to be > the Corsican type that is probably more adapted to domestic > circumstances. Interesting thought... > > And of course, I don't know how it is for everybody else...maybe I'm the > only one who's not satisfied. > > So, I have animals that are on probation because they don't contribute. > Two absolutely gorgeous three year old big ewes have produced exactly > one lamb between them. That is six collective years of feeding them. > They are twins, and one required tubing...their mother's lambs require > assistance every time. She is a big, gorgeous animal too. But now that > I have eliminated virtually all possibility of environmental and feeding > errors, the three of them together are out of here if I have to step in > at any point in July's lambing. > > Anyway, I am rambling and just philosophizing. There's no harm in just > letting the sheep "be," and there's nothing "elitist" or "snobbish" or > anything about wanting to improve one's flock...it makes financial sense > and it is what farmers have been doing for centuries; adapting their > animals to their conditions. > > I do think in the end, that an "adapted" flock of AB's is going to fall > outside the phenotype of the native Carribean sheep. "Genetic drift" > has to occur in an isolated population of animals in order for them to > thrive. I have yet to feel the pulse of the registry about this, but > the breed standards do include objectives for breed improvement, and > they are virtually all in keeping with improving performance in the > domestic setting and in some cases will produce a more domestic-looking > ewe. > > Regards, > Barb Lee > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cecil Bearden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:40 PM > Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] The Beet Pulp Experiment > > > >I have been feeding dried Corn glutens to my sheep to supplement the > >hay > > I am feeding. I feed about a pound a day to the nursing mothers. I > > have 3 in the sick pen right now. 2 have twins about 1 week old > > nursing > > and the other has a 4 week old lamb. They came down with diarrhea > > yesterday afternoon and have not been doing well for the past week. > > It > > appears they have a chronic case of enterotoxemia. I cannot determine > > if they were vaccinated for overeating disease or not. However, my > > light colored ewes have not had any trouble and have an udder the size > > of a small cow. The ones that conform to the AB breed standard are > > having trouble maintaining weight and milk. I got rid of 10 of the > > light colored ewes this summer in an attempt to conform to breed > > standard!!! My Standards have certainly changed!! > > Cecil in OKla > > > > Barb Lee wrote: > >> On the plus side, this little challenge casts a different light on my > >> flock dynamics. Some of the lambs did better than others. And the > >> good > >> doers weren't necessarily the ones that started out that way. From > >> the > >> perspective of trying to adapt the flock to a high-forage-capacity > >> flock, the "keepers" jump right off the page. It also alters the > >> perception about their mothers, and notes are going to go into the > >> ewes' > >> breeding history. > >> > >> I'm not sure how I'm going to use the information, but a trend is > >> already forming, and the ewes that are making a "reputation" in the > >> flock are beginning to galvanize their place in the breeding program. > >> > >> I'm excited about having several robust new, young, unproven ewes in > >> the > >> flock. We are flushing the ewes at the moment for breeding beginning > >> 2/1. (July lambing works for us.) This is going to be a year to > >> look > >> forward to. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Barb Lee > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list > >> Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list > > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > -- Cathy Mayton _______________________________________________ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info