o johnson
Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:37:03 -0800
I changed my feeding program apx 2 years ago. I switched due to cost and thought I was going to an even better feed for the sheep. Like Cecil I live in Central OK. I went to a full sheep feed and in 1 lambing season had very light wgt births, bad milking and ewes loosing wgt like crazy. I did not verify why but decided what I had done in the past was the best. I now, again as before, have my sheep on a mix I do myself of alfalfa pellets, whole corn I get right from the farmer here in town, and the sheep/goat evergreen feed. I also feed all the grass hay they can eat, lots of water, worm every 2 months when I worm my horses and keep out mineral blocks for sheep. I have fat healthy lambs, ewes that have bags dragging the ground they are so full of milk and every one is fat and healthy. I do not know what caused the problem before but I do believe that a lot had to do with the feed that was made for everyone no matter where you are. I will be very interested to see what else Cecil finds. I also do not vaccinate my lambs only the adults I keep and just with CDT. Oneta in OK --- Cecil Bearden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This post is to the list so that you may not make > the same mistake I > did. I have noted a website at Cornell University > that lists a map of > the selenium deficient areas in the US. Since I am > in OK and my sheep > are in OK, there is not a selenium deficiency here. > However, I may have > a problem with selenium toxicosis due to feedstuffs > being designed for > the other 90% of the country that is deficient. > > > http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/selenium/selenium.html > http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/selenium/map1.html > > I am copying an e-mail to the ANSI dept at Cornell > that I sent earlier > today. I will also copy you the response so far. > > My E-mail: > I first would like to thank you and Cornell Animal > Science Dept for the > great website on the toxic agents of selenium. I > would like to tell you > of a recent experience with selenium. Under the > direction of a local > veterinary consulting service, On Feb. 2, 2008, I > injected 85 American > Blackbelly ewes ranging in age from 1yr to 10 yrs of > age with no more > than 1cc of MuSe injectable by Scherring-Plough > This formulation gave > 5mg per ml of selenium as selenite. I also injected > lambs ranging in > age from 3 weeks to 1yr with no more than 1cc, but > due to the operation > of the automatic syringe, the attempt to inject no > more than .25cc > sometimes was not accurate. > > I used the recommendation of the veterinarian which > was twice the dosage > recommended, and did not read the package insert. I > also was not > advised of the real toxicity of injectable selenium. > Within 4 hours of > injection, 4 lambs weighing less than 15 lbs were > dead and 1 weighing > approximately 20lbs. Another 20lb lamb died within > 30 minutes. Within > 14 hours of injection an additional 3 lambs weighing > approximately 20 > lbs had died. 90 hours after injection a 20lb lamb > developed breathing > difficulty and weakness after a 100 yd walk from > grazing wheat pasture. > Necropsy of the first 8 lambs revealed lungs filled > with blood, kidney > and heart damage, and no urine in the bladder. The > smallest lamb > approximately 8 lbs was found to have hair in the > intestines and curdled > milk replacer as this lamb was being supplemented > with bottle feeding. > This flock appeared to exhibit the clinical signs of > selenium deficiency > in young and old alike. However, this flock was > born and raised in > Central Oklahoma. It has always been well fed and > more than adequate > nutrition was available free choice at all times. > Mineral blocks were > available free choice at all times. Ewes with twin > lambs were having > trouble giving adequate milk for 2 lambs and were > abandoning the weaker > lambs. Ewes continuing to nurse twin lambs were > losing weight and > generally looking nutritionally deficient. Lambing > of approximately 70 > ewes produced 3 stillborn lambs that exhibited > frozen joints with an > additional fetus partially absorbed. Lambing > occurred between > Thanksgiving 2007 and February 1, 2008. During June > 2007 the flock was > unknowingly exposed to the owner and his vehicle of > a flock of ewes with > severe pinkeye infection. 10 ewes from my flock > were sold to this flock > owner and consequently 6 died within 8 weeks of > sale. > > This flock is always kept in good condition. I have > not vaccinated for > anything in the last 3 years in order to achieve > organic status. > However on the advice of the earlier veterinary > consulting service, I > vaccinated with covexin 8 and injected 1cc ivomec > approximately 5 weeks > ago and obtained the vaccine for chlamydia and > campyllobacter. In > order to not stress the flock we opted to vaccinate > for chlamydia and > campyllobacter at a later date. > It is now believed the problem experienced with the > weak lambs and twin > lambs being very different in size ratio, was caused > by chlamydia. A > neighbor is a small animal veterinarian and assists > with the flock as > necessary. This same veterinarian was at a > continuing education > conference when the flock was injected. > After reading the information on your website and > observing the research > that Jennifer Cosgrove did regarding Oklahoma and > Texas it is readily > apparent that ruminants indigenous to OKlahoma and > Texas do not need any > supplementation of selenium. And parenteral > selenium is easily toxic. > > I am writing this to somehow ease my conscience for > causing the death > of 9 of my lambs that are considered more as pets > than livestock. I am > also searching for a remedy for this action. At > this time we are > feeding as much hay, molasses protein tubs, salt > lick blocks free choice > as the flock desires. Water is readily available, > and stress is kept to > an absolute minimum. This is an attempt to > eliminate the excess selenium.. > Is there anything else we can do? Also, could I > contact Jennifer > Cosgrove for recommendations as she must have > obtained some additional > information, even anecdotal, while researching this > subject. > > Cecil Bearden, P.E. > 4414 ASh St. NE > Piedmont, OK 73078 > 405-641-8547 > > > The first response: > This is a fascinating history and I would like to > think about it for a > while before answering (lots to get my head > around!). But I have a few > questions. I am copying this to Dr. Mary Smith (our > main expert in small > ruminant medicine and intoxications, among other > things) and to Dr. Doug > Hogue who has more than 50 years experience with > sheep and selenium. > > I am wondering: > > Which clinical signs of selenium deficiency you or > your vet observed > before treatment? And after? > > What was the composition of the mineral blocks and > molasses/protein > supplement blocks? Copper content? Selenium content? > What was their > total load? > > How were the sheep supplemented on wheat pasture? > > Are you sure organic status precludes vaccinations? > I had never heard > that. It was my understanding that conventional > vaccines are OK and > encouraged in the US, conventional as well as GMO > vaccines are OK in > Europe (if there is nothing else available for the > disease) and GMOs > could be OK in the US, but none had yet been > approved., > > If the lambs were all healthy before treatment and > died so fast after, > then I can see where one might come to the > conclusion that the two > events might be related. If they were sick with > something else, or even > with Se deficiency, then perhaps something else is > involved. I'm not a > vet, but I wonder if the stress alone of > apprehending and injecting the > sheep was too much for sheep suffering from > something else. I can only > speculate that unvaccinated, unwormed sheep might be > looking at > parasitism, pulpy kidney or some such maladies. And > are === message truncated === Oneta and The Gang www.johnsonquarterhorses.com Don't tell GOD what to do, just report for duty! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info