cittern  

[CITTERN] Re: Traditional British (plucked) instruments

Brad McEwen
Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:22:28 -0700

Roman:
   
  Still, it seemed to suggest that all folk music originated in the upper 
classes.  We all knoow how capable the peasant and other "lower" classes were 
of creating music.
   
  Brad

Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  He neither said nor implied anything of the sort. Aristocrats rarely 
composed. Professionals did.
RT

> Roman:
>
> That sounds like a crock of #**!! to me, quite frankly. It suggests that 
> only aristrocrats and their ilk are cpable of creating music. Rubish.
>
> Brad
>
> Roman Turovsky wrote:
> An ethnomusicologist-composer friend of mine in Ukraine (seen with a
> cornetto in the video here http://torban.org/pisni/ghomin.html) recently
> wrote an article in which he argued that virtually all folk music is
> aristocratic in origin, leaked into lower stratum of society and digested
> and transformed by it, usually for the better (and not only poetically). 
> In
> particular he traced Polish Renaissance courtly poetry and the way in 
> which
> it was adapted by the common folk in Ukraine. Unfortunately he didn't 
> white
> his article in English....
> RT
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brad McEwen"
> To: ; "Cittern NET"
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 8:20 PM
> Subject: [CITTERN] Re: Traditional British (plucked) instruments
>
>
>> Frank:
>>
>> An icon of the traditional English folk music scene, Rod Stradling,
>> recently told me about a place in Italy that had recently redicsovered 
>> its
>> own unique traditional music and dances. They were said to be paticular
>> to that reginalone. A small group of dedicted people wen tin search of 
>> the
>> old players and dancer to preserve and revive their own distinct
>> heriatage.
>>
>> Rod said that they proudly played a tune learned form one such old
>> fiddler; a tune none of them had ever heard before. they were certain
>> that it was one of those distint tunes unique to theri area.
>>
>> Rod had the unfortunate task of informing them that the tune was Redwing!
>>
>> I don't think that they were too happy about it.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> Frank Nordberg wrote:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote (although not in this order):
>> .
>>> But as Hitler got power, he used the music to fit his scheme of
>>> "Hitlerjugend", adapted the camps, the songs, nature games, everything
>>> to serve his purposes.
>>
>> Yes, it's a sad fact that the symbols of various population groups
>> sometimes have been abused that way.
>>
>> There actually is a relationship between the average folk singing
>> citizen of (insert-any-nation-here) and the full fledged fascist but
>> it's the came kind of relationship as between the guy who drives his car
>> carefully to work every day and the bloke who gets roaring drunk and
>> speeds past the local childcare center at full throtle.
>>
>>> But until now the musical link between generations by knowing the old
>> songs
>>> is non-existent.
>>
>> I don't really agree with you there Martina. Yes, the direct, obvious
>> link to the songs sung by previous generations may be broken but a tune
>> is just a tune and the essence - or soul if you like - of a country's
>> music is much deeper than that.
>> There is no noticeable connection between German traditional music and
>> Kraftwerk. But even so, that band is so unmistakably German it couldn't
>> possibly have come from anywhere else in the world.
>>
>>> The following young generation did not want to learn any "old songs",
>> sick
>>> of everything smelling like "German".
>>
>> Slight digression: This isn't just a post war phenomena. Jazz was very
>> popular in urban Germany long before the average American had heard of 
>> it.
>>
>>> And "Rock 'n Roll" WAS cool, for sure.
>>
>> And if it wasn't for the thriving rock'n roll scene in early 60s
>> Hamburg, Beatles wouldn't have happened the way they did.
>> If it wasn't for Kraftwerk, we wouldn't have had rap. (Some may argue
>> the world would have been a little bit better that way but that's beside
>> the point.)
>>
>> The thing is, a nation - or any other cultural group - doesn't build
>> it's music from scratch. It takes some old bits - childhood memories
>> burned into people's mind - some new bits (but not *that* much of it)
>> and lots of "exotic" elements from far-off lands. Something old,
>> something new, something borrowed - oh and something blue as well since
>> sentimentality always sells. ;-)
>>
>> The mixture is unique to each and every culture and sub-culture but the
>> elements it's made from aren't.
>>
>> Take a really close look at the mix that made up rock'n roll in the
>> first place and try to see how many German bits there are in it. You'll
>> be surprised.
>>
>> Cross cultural influences run in all directions, even the most
>> unexpected ones.
>>
>> At the end of the 19th century a German traveller in Japan fell in love
>> with a stunningly beautiful piece of traditional Japanese poetry. He
>> translated it into German and published it back home where it became an
>> instant hit. It took quite a while before somebody realised that what he
>> had found was actually a Japanese translation of one of Goethe's most
>> famous poems.
>>
>> A much more modern example is the U.S. anthropologists studying an
>> isolated tribe in the deepest heart of Africa. They recorded a
>> traditional tribal song.
>> Oh, the music was actally genuine and unique and all that (at least
>> as far as we know) but the lyrics turned out to be about some gentleman
>> named James Dean...
>>
>> I could go on and on with such examples but I've already posted one mega
>> size rant in this thread and althoguh I don't it's off topic to the list
>> it's certainly close to the borders.
>>
>> So I'll just finish it off with a quote from Niels-Henning Ørsted
>> Pedersen. When asked what idn of music he and is band was playing, he
>> replied:
>> "What we play is what we play - when we play it."
>>
>>
>> Frank Nordberg
>> http://www.musicaviva.com
>> http://stores.ebay.com/Nordbergs-Music-Store?refid=store
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>>
>>
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