A fair number of amateur moves are exactly what a pro would use; this is no great surprise, since the moves are actually copied from professional games. The weaker player can blindly emulate, but does not know why a pro plays A instead of B or C; does not know how to punish slack moves.
I've been taking some classes from an 8d pro. Sadly, I'm at the bottom of the class. The top players in these classes are 8d amateurs; the pro can give them 3 stones and win. When going over their games, many of their moves are quite respectable, but the pro is able to find mistakes which can be exploited with devastating effect. You can't afford to be "a little bit off" against a pro, but weaker players find it hard to exploit slack moves. When explaining his moves, the pro often uses very deep reading. We've all seen simple cases, where move A is advisable if a ladder works, otherwise B is recommended. The pro knows six moves in advance that he'll need to read that ladder, before the ladder is actually on the board. These are the simplest expositions I've seen; things get more complex from there. Terry McIntyre <[email protected]> "Government is an association of men who do violence to the rest of us." - Leo Tolstoy ________________________________ From: steve uurtamo <[email protected]> To: computer-go <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:09:20 PM Subject: Re: [computer-go] Monte-Carlo Simulation Balancing also, i'm not sure that a lot of most amateurs' moves are very good. the spectrum of bad moves is wide, it's just that it takes someone many stones stronger to severely punish small differences between good and nearly-good moves. among players of relatively similar strength, these differences will go unnoticed and unpunished. s. 2009/4/28 Don Dailey <[email protected]>: > A simplistic model that helps explain this is golf. On a single hole, even > a casual golfer has a realistic chance of out-golfing Tiger Woods. Tiger > occasionally shoots a 1 over par on some hole and even weak amateurs > occasionally par or even birdie a hole. It's not going to happen a lot, > but it's not ridiculous either. Years ago I taught a player how to golf, > and on his third time out with me, he hit a hole in one on a short par > 3. If Tiger Woods had been playing with us, he would have lost that hole > to this beginner. > > But in a 9 hole match, the odds go down enormously - for all practical > purposes there is no chance. > > I kind of think of GO like that, even though it's a pretty simplistic > model. Each move is like a hole of golf, it can be a good "shot" or a bad > one. With GO, however, probably a LOT of your moves are just as good as > the moves of a good player. But it's the ones that fall short, that kill > you. > > Go on a big board is like 18 holes of golf compared to just 1 or 2 holes of > golf. The better player is far more likely to win the 18 hole match than > the 1 hole match. > > - Don > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Ivan Dubois <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I noticed that, in general, changes in the playout policy have a much >>> bigger impact on larger boards than on smaller boards. >>> >>> Rémi >> >> I think rating differences are emplified on larger boards. This is easy to >> see if you think about it this way : >> >> Somehow a 19x19 board is like 4 9x9 boards. Let us define a new game that >> I would call 4-Go where instead of playing one game, you play simultenously >> 4 games and determine the winner by calculating the sum of the scores of the >> four games. Certainly rating differences would be bigger with 4-go than with >> go (given the same two players). This explains why rating differences are >> bigger on 19x19 than 9x9. >> >> Ivan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> computer-go mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > > _______________________________________________ > computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > _______________________________________________ computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
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