conlawprof  

RE: Germans Prohibited From Thinking

Corcos, Christine
Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:51:49 -0800

New working paper by Laurent Pech analyzing the treatment of Holocaust
denial in various EU countries.
Laurent Pech, "The Law of Holocaust Denial in Europe: Towards a
(Qualified) EU-Wide Criminal Prohibition," Jean Monnet Working Paper No.
10/09 

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1536078

Here is the abstract.

A majority of EU countries have long considered that the right to
freedom of expression precludes the criminalization of Holocaust denial
per se. The full implementation of the 2008 EU Framework Decision on
combating certain forms and expressions of racism and xenophobia by
means of criminal law (hereinafter: the EU FD on racism) will, however,
considerably harmonizes the law of Holocaust denial in Europe. While
several provisions of the EU FD on racism offer a series of legal
options enabling any EU country to limit the scope of national
provisions criminalizing "genocide denial," it remains that all EU
Member States are now under the legal obligation to criminalize genocide
denial when it is carried out either in a manner likely to incite to
violence or hatred or in a manner likely to disturb public order or
which is threatening, abusive or insulting. Before offering a critical
review of the EU FD on racism and arguing that the political necessity
of laws punishing genocide denial and the legal need for an EU-wide
prohibition may be seriously questioned, this paper will contend that
the legal reasoning developed by national courts in "militant
democracies" is far from convincing and that the European Court of Human
Rights should have refrained from labeling the Holocaust a clearly
established historical fact whose denial constitutes ipso facto an
"abuse of right".

-----Original Message-----
From: conlawprof-boun...@lists.ucla.edu
[mailto:conlawprof-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Idleman
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:15 PM
To: 'CONLAWPROFS professors'
Subject: RE: Germans Prohibited From Thinking

I agree entirely that there are differences and that some of these
differences, such as the legal mode or form of the government's
censorship,
can be considered significant.  

But Robert Sheridan's post asked "[w]hy . . . we in the U.S. allow
pretty
much unfettered expression on life and death subjects while Germany
doesn't."

I first questioned the extent to which we truly do allow "pretty much
unfettered expression," citing examples of government censorship of
certain
symbols or literary works that have racial or racist components.  I then
suggested that the contours or limits of our doctrine of expression
might,
like Germany's in Professor Sheridan's theory, be shaped by forces such
as
fear.  (I must confess to not knowing what Professor Sheridan means by
"life
and death subjects," and thus I don't know how that phrase's intended
meaning might affect my assessment.)

There is no doubt that the forms and degrees of government action in the
German and U.S. examples are different when broadly viewed, which is why
I
did not suggest that they were the same or equivalent.  Yet I thought it
equally problematic to imply or believe that "the regulation or
toleration
of expression in the United States is always, categorically, and clearly
distinguishable from the German situation."

My focus, quite simply, was on the existence of and reasons for the
government censorship in the first place, looking at both countries, not
just Germany.  Once that assessment has been made, in fact, I suspect
that
the reasons for the differences in mode and degree of legal sanction may
also become clearer.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: conlawprof-boun...@lists.ucla.edu
[mailto:conlawprof-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Volokh, Eugene
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 19:37
To: 'CONLAWPROFS professors'
Subject: RE: Germans Prohibited From Thinking

        It seems to me that there's a very big difference between
government
decisions about what speech to exclude from government-run schools and
government-run libraries and government decisions about what speech to
criminalize.

        Eugene

> -----Original Message-----
> From: conlawprof-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:conlawprof-
> boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Idleman
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 2:45 PM
> To: 'Robert Sheridan'; 'CONLAWPROFS professors'
> Subject: RE: Germans Prohibited From Thinking
> 
> Robert Sheridan's distinction could explain the particular question of
Mein
> Kampf's availability in the United States when compared to Germany.
But
> it's not clear to me that the regulation or toleration of expression
in
the
> United States is always, categorically, and clearly distinguishable
from
the
> German situation.
> 
> Instead of banning the use of the swastika altogether, we tolerate the
> banning of the confederate flag in certain contexts, e.g., on the
t-shirts
> of public high school students, and instead of banning Mein Kampf, we
> tolerate the removal from public schools (either class reading lists
or
even
> libraries) of older books that are seen from the vantage point of 2010
as
> depicting African-Americans in mocking or degrading ways.
> 
> Perhaps this homegrown intolerance arises from Americans' own fear or
guilt
> regarding their country's particular history of slavery and racial
> discrimination, though the range of potentially offensive
communications
> today--what some might call the dominion of political
correctness--suggests
> that there's more to it than just the nation's record of racial
injustice.
> 
> In short, I would hope that any effort to explain the suppression of
ideas
> and expression in Germany, which I certainly consider a worthwhile
inquiry,
> might also shed light on contemporary efforts to suppress certain
ideas or
> symbols in the United States.
> 
> Scott Idleman
> Marquette University
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: conlawprof-boun...@lists.ucla.edu
> [mailto:conlawprof-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Robert
Sheridan
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 11:45
> To: CONLAWPROFS professors
> Subject: Germans Prohibited From Thinking
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/yfkp363
> 
> Link above is to an article in NYT, today, text below the comment:
> 
> If there's one place where thinking about Hitler might be encouraged,
> not stifled, it's Germany, not to mention the U.S. Yet Germany has
gone
> the other way when it comes to expression on this subject.
> 
> Why do we in the U.S. allow pretty much unfettered expression on life
> and death subjects while Germany doesn't?
> 
> A theory: The willingness to tolerate expression is a function of
fear.
> Our history of fear of Hitler is different than Germany's, a country
> that he led to disgrace and destruction with Allied help. This isn't
to
> excuse the gag order but to try to understand it.
> 
> I wonder whether it would make any sense at all in Germany to throw
the
> subject open to discussion. The fear must be that there would be more
> neo-Nazi reaction in favor than scholarly influence against.
> 
> Very different from our FA doctrine.
> 
> See the remarks of Mr. Kramer, below.
> 
> rs
> 
> MUNICH - In Germany, an author is granted an ironclad copyright for 70
> years after his death, apparently even if he is subsequently regarded
as
> one of the greatest mass murderers in history and a dark stain on the
> national character.
> 
> Hitler
>
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/adolf_hitl
er/i
> ndex.html?inline=nyt-per>'s
> copyright on "Mein Kampf," in the hands of the Bavarian government
since
> the end of the Nazi regime, has long been used to keep his
inflammatory
> manifesto off the shelves in Germany
> <http://www.nytimes.com/info/germany?inline=nyt-geo>. But with the
> expiration date looming in 2015, there is a developing showdown here
> over the first German publication of the book since the end of World
War
> II.
> 
> Experts at the respected Institute of Contemporary History
> <http://www.ifz-muenchen.de/index.php?id=4&L=1> in Munich say they
want
> to prepare a critical, annotated version of the book for release when
> the copyright expires 70 years after Hitler's suicide in his Berlin
bunker.
> 
> "We hope to prevent neo-Nazi publications by putting out a commented,
> scholarly edition before that," said Edith Raim
> <http://www.ifz-muenchen.de/edith_raim.html>, a historian at the
> institute. "'Mein Kampf' is one of the central texts if you want to
> explain National Socialism, and it hasn't been available in a
commented
> edition at all in Germany."
> 
> But the Bavarian government opposed the idea, citing respect for
victims
> of the Holocaust. In a statement Thursday, the Bavarian Finance
Ministry
> said that permits for reprints would not be issued, at home or abroad.
> "This also applies to a new annotated edition," said the statement,
> adding that the state would use "all means at its disposal to proceed
> against any violations."
> 
> There was also disagreement as to whether the book might be banned as
> Nazi propaganda. The Bavarian government said that even after
expiration
> of the copyright, "the dissemination of Nazi ideologies will remain
> prohibited in Germany and is punishable under the penal code."
> 
> But Ms. Raim said that diaries by prominent Nazis like Joseph Goebbels
> and Heinrich Himmler were already available.
> 
> Unofficial copies of "Mein Kampf" are easily accessible on the
Internet
> already, and the book is legally published abroad, including in the
> United States.
> 
> Hitler wrote the book, which detailed his hatred of Jews, his desire
for
> revenge against the French and the need for more space or "Lebensraum"
> in the east for Germans, while in Landsberg prison in Bavaria after
the
> failed Beer Hall Putsch in 1923. The first volume of the book was
> published in 1925 and the second the next year.
> 
> More than 12 million copies of "Mein Kampf" were in circulation by
1945.
> The cities of Munich and Nuremberg, among others, gave it away to
young
> couples as a wedding present, according to the Bavarian state library.
> 
> Stephan J. Kramer, secretary general of the Central Council of Jews in
> Germany <http://www.zentralratdjuden.de/en/topic/2.html> in Berlin,
said
> the publication of "Mein Kampf" continued to split the Jewish
community
> in Germany, with many Holocaust survivors opposing its publication. "I
> have the highest respect for this opinion, but on the other hand I'm
> saying very openly: The copyright is going to be waived anyway. It's a
> matter of time before the book is available in shops and libraries,"
Mr.
> Kramer said.
> 
> Mr. Kramer said that with the book available on the Internet, it was
> important to have the work put in context by a responsible group like
> the Institute of Contemporary History. "Those who are already on the
> wrong side already have the book and already read it from their own
> point of view," he said. "Let's get it out there, and let's get it out
> there with a commentary."
> 
> 
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Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as
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Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private.  
Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can 
read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the 
messages to others.