RoadsEnd
Fri, 03 Jan 2003 10:39:09 -0800
-Caveat Lector-
<A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html <A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ <A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
--- Begin Message ----Caveat Lector- --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "tim_howells_1000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi guys, I realize I'm preaching to the choir here, but what > I'm really after is some constructive criticism. I'm trying > to put together the ideal post to convince someone who has > to this point bought into the "official story" that September 11 > was a black op perpetrated by elements of our own government. > This is already much longer than I would like, and I've had > to leave out a lot of very important stuff. Suggestions welcome. > This is excellent work, Tim. Extremely comprehensive, which is paramount in presenting one's argument for the government's involvement (or negligence) into September 11. Thanks for sharing and allowing for suggestions. A few things came to mind when reading your references to the CIA's involvement and the FBI's thwarting of key investigations. I believe the inclusion of certain testimony (one of which I believe you alluded to) of two more people might help make your case for government complicity. Michael Springmann and Robert Wright offered some very good testimony in the wake of the 9-11 investigation. Springmann, a former employee of the Visa Express program at the CIA's consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, gave a speech at the June 10, 2002 press conference of UnansweredQuestions.org, in which he chronicled the CIA's recruitment of terrorists for training within the United States. The following are experts from his speech: "...I used to be in charge of the Visa Section at the CIA's consulate at Jeddah, the principle city of the Hejahs in Western Saudi Arabia. There, for a year and a half, I issued visas to terrorists recruited by the CIA and its asset, Osama Bin Laden. At the time I thought it was basically visa fraud. Somebody was paying $2500 bribes to State Department officials. I was ordered by these same high State Department officials to issue the visas, to shut up, to do my job and ask no questions. (...) "I tried mightily for several years to find out what had happened to me, and the Freedom of Information Act requests were being stonewalled on the basis of national security, I ran across a journalist, Joe Trento. And about the same time I ran across two people, one of who was a government official and the other was a person attached to a local university here in Washington. All three confirmed that what I was protesting was not visa fraud but people being rounded up by the agency and Osama Bin Laden to come to the United Sates for training as terrorists to be sent to fight in the war against the then Soviet Union in Afghanistan. They used roughly a million dollars in liquor sales a year from the consulate in Jeddah to fund this. And you might ask, well, as the Washington Legal Times did, that was then, this is now, fifteen years later. Well, from what I read in the Los Angeles Times, fifteen of the nineteen people who allegedly flew airplanes into buildings in the United States got their visas from the same CIA consulate at Jeddah." http://www.unansweredquestions.org/transcript.php#mikes Was it simply a case of blowback or government complicity? You be the judge, however, the methods by which the hijackers were allowed to slip into the United States should not be overlooked. Either way you spin it, it was at CIA's behest that fifteen of the nineteen hijackers were allowed to carry out one of the most heinous attacks (to date) on American soil. Former FBI agent Robert Wright's testimony is as equally damning as Coleen Rowley's. Like Rowley, Wright's superiors also thwarted his investigation into the terrorist trail. One of the most -- or what should have been the most -- damaging speeches made post 9-11, was Wright's public apology, via Judicial Watch, to the families of the 9-11 victims for FBI's failure to stop the attacks. This amounted to a blatant admission on his part that the FBI was aware of the plot and had the ability to stop it, yet did nothing. In a recent ABC 20/20 interview, Wright, along with fellow agent John Vincent, revealed even more startling details of his investigation. One of the very people he was told to back off from investigating after the 1998 US Embassy bombings in Africa, a Saudi businessman by the name of Yassin al-Kadi, turned up as key financier in bin-Laden's operations after 9-11. "One month after the attacks, the U.S. government officially identified al-Kadi — the same man the FBI had ordered Wright and Vincent to leave alone years earlier — as one of bin Laden's important financiers." http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/FBI_whistleblowers0 21219.html A recent December 6, 2002, raid on a computer software company by the name of Ptech led authorities back to al-Kadi. Al-Kadi was a silent partner in Ptech and provided $5 million of his own money to start up the company back in 1994. Ironically enough, among the many Ptech clients were the FBI itself, along with the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Postal Service, the Naval Air Systems Command, the Federal Aviation Administration, and NATO. "The company provides computer software to the FBI and other key federal agencies, which means al-Kadi and his employees could have had access to some of the government's most sensitive secrets." http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/FBI_whistleblowers0 21219.html So, not only did the FBI prevent Wright from investigating al-Kadi, but they allowed al-Kadi access to potentially sensitive government databases including their own. Again, does this equate to gross negligence or complicity? You be the judge, but as you so duly noted that while "Atta and the other hijackers operated quite openly in the United States, as if they enjoyed guaranteed protection," others were afforded access to sensitive government data bases. This not only sounds like protection, but it sounds like permission. Also interesting to note: the Visa Express program described above in Springmann's testimony is now defunct; Ptech was raided by Homeland Security just days after the passing of the bill. Blatantly overt attempts like these by the US government to cover their ties to key 9-11 players also lends support to the theory that they were in no way taken by surprise on September 11, 2001. It's obvious they not only knew of the plot, but knew where to send the cleaners after legislation was in place granting them sweeping powers to cover their tracks. Another case of promotion within the FBI of "those responsible for thwarting the investigations that could have prevented the horrific events of September 11" is cited in the same interview with agent Wright: "Perhaps most astounding of the many mistakes, according to Flessner and an affidavit filed by Wright, is how an FBI agent named Gamal Abdel-Hafiz seriously damaged the investigation. Wright says Abdel- Hafiz, who is Muslim, refused to secretly record one of al-Kadi's suspected associates, who was also Muslim. Wright says Abdel-Hafiz told him, Vincent and other agents that 'a Muslim doesn't record another Muslim.' (...) "Far from being reprimanded, Abdel-Hafiz was promoted to one of the FBI's most important anti-terrorism posts, the American Embassy in Saudi Arabia, to handle investigations for the FBI in that Muslim country." http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/FBI_whistleblowers0 21219.html I would also like to add just a minor caution in reporting the Moussaoui case. The fact he was arrested a month before September 11th, was neither due to "luck" nor alert actions of the flight instructors. A lot of what's being reported about the Moussaoui case is disinformation designed to cover the fact that the FBI knew who he was, and kept track of him, from the second he stepped onto US soil. I wholeheartedly believe this is the real reason for the FBI's denial of Rowely's access to Moussaoui's hard drive -- it would reveal the fact they were tracking the activities of many of the hijackers before 9-11 and knew of the plot. Consider the defendant's testimony: "I have a compelling reason to say that this government...was following me since I enter the United States of America, and they were engaging in a cover operation against me and potentially the 19 hijacker...I have proof that they were carrying an undercover operation against me, because my address and many other elements inside my case prove that they were following...I can prove that since the day I am in the United States of America and before..I have been under surveillance." --Zacarias Moussaoui, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. ZACARIAS MOUSSAOUI, June 13, 2002 "I have requested to appear in front of the grand jury, because I want to, to say everything I know, but the government refuse, because they know the implication if I were to say. And I request to take the stand and to say to the people of America what I know about...al Qaeda...and about conspiracy. But the United States government know that they don't want, because they have charged me with this crime, and they don't want the matter to be investigated, because as I've tried to put forward to the people of America and the world, that, in fact, the government knew about the activity of the people who were preparing September 11, and they have decided to arrest me because they knew that I was not directly involved with these people." -- Zacarias Moussaoui, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. ZACARIAS MOUSSAOUI, July 25, 2002 Anyway, I believe you've touched on a lot of excellent points, all of them backed with references. I'd keep plugging away and use as much individual testimony as possible. The more testimony you have -- especially within their own agencies -- the less power the US government has to simply write off the "conspiracy theorists." Keep up the good work and best of luck to you in your presentation. Please let us stay on topic and be civil. To unsubscribe please go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cia-drugs -Home Page- www.cia-drugs.org OM Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html <A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]</A> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ <A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om--- End Message ---