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Wed, 10 Mar 2010 05:17:53 -0800
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Taliban is the future (Kshmendra Kaul)
2. Re: Bill to disqualify Kashmiri women from remainingstate
subjects (Kshmendra Kaul)
3. Feel free, Mr Husain. Go paint Qatari leaders (Pawan Durani)
4. Re: Feel free, Mr. Husain. Go paint Qatari leaders (Bipin Trivedi)
5. Re: Feel free, Mr. Husain. Go paint Qatari leaders
(anupam chakravartty)
--- Begin Message ---Dear Yasir Not 'writing from across the border'. So no 'border-glasses'. On the contrary, mine might be broader-glasses. I would like to believe that I have greater objectivity regarding both Pakistan and India as compared to most who are living in either country. This comment of yours was interesting - " foreign entities and money incl china, russia, US, saudi, india, are all stoking the fires to thwart each others' regional agendas in the border regions of baluchistan and nwfp/fata" Have heard that mouthed very often in/on Pakistani Media. You forgot to mention Iran (especially wrt Balochistan). These days one often hears Pakistanis claiming that TTP ( Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan) is borne/reared/nurtured/promoted/financed by India. Kshmendra --- On Tue, 3/9/10, yasir ~يا سر <yasir.me...@gmail.com> wrote: From: yasir ~يا سر <yasir.me...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Taliban is the future To: "Sarai Reader-list" <reader-l...@sarai.net> Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 9:12 PM 1. Hamid Gul is a cold warrior, with an islamist pov. always interesting to hear. yet he and his views have been marginalized in pk. let us us say it is the end of the zia era. 2. pk and afg are very different entities. while taliban are making a quiet come back in afg, even they themselves are not supporting the pk-taliban as this would sour their relations with pk. besides the pk-talibs are either being massacred or disappearing to resurface at some point later, the moment in northwest-pk. so this can be dicey for that region only ie fata. there is no such problem for the rest of the country. foreign entities and money incl china, russia, US, saudi, india, are all stoking the fires to thwart each others' regional agendas in the border regions of baluchistan and nwfp/fata - a fact of life at the moment. but the country seems to have regained some agency of itself with upsurge in popular sentiment and pressure on govt since the lawyers movement and the last elections. a good point for negotiations with india for instance, to streamline our own common regional agendas, which are overdue since at least partition, actually much before... 3. pk-taliban or their views, in fact islamist views are definitely on the margin in pk at the moment. so i totally disagree with KK (who is writing fron across the border wearing border-glasses), and agree with pawan, that the common enemy are the islamists in afg/pk/and hardly so (ie totally overblown) in india, where too, just like us, they love to make a circus out of it. lets hope the common bonds are stronger than the hate, of which there has been enough. best, y _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-requ...@sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
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--- Begin Message ---@ Sonia - Dont know of any cases of "KP women who marry other KP women" (how does one type the 'smile' icon?) @ Kamal - Your implication that the proposed Bill is specially meant to exclude KP Women is a ridiculous one. So is your challenge "to produce a list of just fifty Kashmiri Muslim women who have done so" (married non-State Subjects) in past fifty years. I personally know of 5 such cases. It is important to understand the background. A Division Bench of J&K High Court gave the ruling that on the issue of "State Subject" you cannot differentiate between sexes. A Special Leave Petition (SLP) was filed against this in the Supreme Court but was subsequently withdrawn. Prior to this ruling: - A State Subject (SS) Woman marrying a Non-SS, she was considered to have lost her SS Status and in any case her children were not considered a SS. The Non-SS man continued to be a Non-SS - If a SS Man married a Non-SS Woman, their children were considered as SS. - The status of the (prior to marriage) Non-SS woman was ambiguous as to whether she was a SS after marriage or not. In the case that reached the High Court, the central issue was of Inheritance Rights of the one who used to be a Non-SS. Their being considered or not being considered a SS after marriage (to a SS entity) became contentiously important if the Inheritance included Immovable Property, which can be owned only by a SS. The High Court ruling, did not declare whether the (prior to marriage) Non-SS (man or woman) became a SS after marriage to a SS or whether a SS Woman lost her SS status after marriage to a Non-SS. But it did secure their rights of Inheritance, including those on Immovable Property for all Man or Woman irrespective to their SS or Non-SS status prior to marriage. The exact provisions of the New Bill are not known to me, but from the Press Report forwarded by Sonia, it does seem that one of the intentions is to treat Women differently from Men with the prejudice and bias being against Women. That is an attitude to be found commonly amongst both Muslims and Hindus. Kshmendra --- On Wed, 3/10/10, S. Jabbar <sonia.jab...@gmail.com> wrote: From: S. Jabbar <sonia.jab...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Bill to disqualify Kashmiri women from remainingstate subjects To: kamal...@gmail.com, reader-list-boun...@sarai.net, "Sarai" <reader-l...@sarai.net> Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 12:06 PM Please remember that J&K has a separate constitution from the Constitution of India and that the bill has to do with the idea of the 'State subject,' which, if I remember correctly was formulated in Maharaja Pratap Singh's time to prevent wealthy and educated Punjabis from the plains from acquiring land and government jobs. Since 1947 the idea of who is a 'State Subject' and who is not acquired great political overtones. For example, the newly elected Kashmir Assembly wanted to preserve the status of refugees who fled the state in 1947 and even today that person has the right to return. However, unlike Punjab where property on both sides of the border was declared 'enemy property' and refugees rehabilitated after their claims were assessed, no such thing was done in J&K. Thousands of refugees from Mirpur and Muzaffarabad displaced in 1947 still live in 'camps' in Jammu. But their condition is better than the terrible condition of the stateless refugees from say, Sialkot, who fled to Jammu, which was closer than cities in Indian Punjab. These poor people have been living in the most abject condition since 1947 without a strong lobby in Delhi or Srinagar to support their basic rights as citizens of this country. Kamal, both Hindu and Muslim who choose to marry men who are not state subjects will suffer and in this it controls the woman's choice. KP women who marry other KP women will not lose their status, but KP women who marry Bengalis or men from Delhi or Chandigarh would. Similarly, Muslim women who choose to marry outside their community of Kashmiri Muslims would lose their status and privileges. Not surprisingly, in the most blatant display of chauvinism both Kashmiri Muslim and Pandit men can marry whom they wish and retain their privileges of state subject. > From: <kamal...@gmail.com> > Reply-To: <kamal...@gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 06:00:48 +0000 > To: "S. Jabbar" <sonia.jab...@gmail.com>, <reader-list-boun...@sarai.net>, > Sarai <reader-l...@sarai.net> > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Bill to disqualify Kashmiri women from > remainingstate subjects > > Hope the vigilante will not see an indian conspiracy in this. Apart from this > there is nothing surprising in the bill. One needs to understand who all will > be affected by this bill becoming a law. Though, it will be politically > incorrect to say this, yet one can't deny the main sufferers will essentially > be displaced Kashmiri Pandit women. The bill is, therefore, a yet another > step in the process of preventing the displaced Kashmiri Pandits from seeking > their rightful place in the land of their ancestors. > One also needs to look through the paradox of facilitating the return and > settlement with honour of wanna be militants on one side and preventing a > rightful place to a Kashmiri women for her folly of marrying an Indian > citizen. > Going through the events and politics of Kashmir during last two decades, one > can safely predict a legislation the strips the displaced Kashmiri Pandits of > their permanent residency in Kashmir because of their two decade old absence > from the state. > > Jai Ho!!! > > Kamal Hak > Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel > > -----Original Message----- > From: "S. Jabbar" <sonia.jab...@gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:52:38 > To: Sarai<reader-l...@sarai.net> > Subject: [Reader-list] Bill to disqualify Kashmiri women from remaining > state subjects > > Shocker on Women¹s Day PR Bill again haunts govt NC allows PDP bill for > discussion Rising Kashmir News Jammu, March 8: A Bill moved by PDP legislator > Murtaza Ahmad Khan to provide for disqualification from being Permanent > Resident (PR) of the State on marriage of a female resident with a > non-permanent resident was allowed in the House unopposed. The bill (LC > Private Members Bill No 04 of 2010) moved by Khan was allowed unopposed in the > House. The Bill favours disqualification from being Permanent Resident of the > State on marriage of a female permanent resident with a non-permanent resident > and on termination of marriage of a non-resident female with a permanent > resident husband. The Bill was passed by the Legislative Assembly in March > 2004. However, Congress, which was then the coalition partner of PDP-Congress > ruling alliance voted against the bill in Legislative Assembly. The bill > was rejected by the House. NC had then supported the Bill but Congress was > strongly opposed. The PDP legislator Murtaza Khan also moved a Bill (LC > Private Members Bill No 01 of 2010) to provide for effective protection of > women from domestic violence and for matters connected therewith was rejected > by the House. Earlier, the government had said that it will move a bill on > Domestic Violence in the Assembly. ''To empower the Jammu and Kashmir women > so that they can fight for their rights, the government is going to move a > bill on Domestic Violence in the ongoing session,'' Sakina Ittoo, Minister for > Social Welfare had said. She had said that the bill will soon be tabled in > the Legislative Assembly. ³We are sure that the government will give green > signal for its implementation in the state.'' Sakina had said the complaints > of domestic violence are rising in the > state. _________________________________________ reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To > subscribe: send an email to reader-list-requ...@sarai.net with subscribe in > the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-requ...@sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
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--- Begin Message ---Feel free, Mr Husain. Go paint Qatari leaders March 10th, 2010 By Cho Ramaswamy Now that M.F. Husain has settled in Qatar where there is total freedom, he is free of the shackles imposed by the Indian system on freedom of expression. All those who appreciate his art would now eagerly await his imaginative paintings of the leaders of Qatari society, hopefully not artistically clothed. His fans would not expect him to confine nudity to Hindu deities alone; it would extend to all the religions. Having already painted his mother, daughter and Muslim kings fully robed, Mr Husain, being the freed citizen that he is now in Qatar, should be prepared to remove those clothes. How can the artist in him be satisfied with seeing Saraswati and Parvati alone in the nude? Fortunately for art in the nude, the courts here cannot do anything to Mr Husain now that he has run away from the Indian judicial system. All the cases could be now buried amidst the pictures drawn by him. Both would mercifully go to the dustbin. I am very anxious not to get branded as communal in my thinking. I want to be hailed as a secularist and so I would say with all the force I can command that Mr Husain has the inalienable right to depict the Hindu deities in the most obscene manner while taking care to paint even non-religious Muslims fully clothed. He can claim that because he hates Hitler he painted him in the nude so he could humiliate him and in the same breath justify his nude pictures of Hindu goddesses as depiction of purity. And because I am secular, I would also assert that his not returning to India is only to gain freedom from the Indian fascism and not to avoid being apprehended by the law enforcers in this country. Being a liberal-minded artist, he naturally is not able to put up with the protests which do not harm him in any way. Shunning the Indian system and preferring the Qatar environment is not an act of hypocrisy but one of liberal, secular and free thought. And now that Mr Husain has established himself as such a stout campaigner for free expression, I must believe firmly that he will forcefully plead with his new protectors in Qatar to roll out of a bit of that red carpet to Taslima Nasreen, another hounded victim from the literary world. - Cho S. Ramaswamy is a well-known political analyst, actor, dramatist and editor of Tamil magazine Tughlak Source : http://www.deccanchronicle.com/blogs/others/feel-free-mr-husain-go-paint-qatari-leaders-773
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--- Begin Message ---Thanks Pawan for posting this article. Cho Ramaswami is absolutely right by saying ” All those who appreciate his art would now eagerly await his imaginative paintings of the leaders of Qatari society, hopefully not artistically clothed.” Actually it is his dirty mind inspires him to make goddess nude pictures and not the artistic mind. He is really psychic and needs psychiatric treatment. However, pseudo-secular readers here will sure to oppose this article. Thanks Bipin -----Original Message----- From: reader-list-boun...@sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-boun...@sarai.net] On Behalf Of Pawan Durani Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:48 PM To: reader-list Subject: [Reader-list] Feel free, Mr Husain. Go paint Qatari leaders Feel free, Mr Husain. Go paint Qatari leaders March 10th, 2010 By Cho Ramaswamy Now that M.F. Husain has settled in Qatar where there is total freedom, he is free of the shackles imposed by the Indian system on freedom of expression. All those who appreciate his art would now eagerly await his imaginative paintings of the leaders of Qatari society, hopefully not artistically clothed. His fans would not expect him to confine nudity to Hindu deities alone; it would extend to all the religions. Having already painted his mother, daughter and Muslim kings fully robed, Mr Husain, being the freed citizen that he is now in Qatar, should be prepared to remove those clothes. How can the artist in him be satisfied with seeing Saraswati and Parvati alone in the nude? Fortunately for art in the nude, the courts here cannot do anything to Mr Husain now that he has run away from the Indian judicial system. All the cases could be now buried amidst the pictures drawn by him. Both would mercifully go to the dustbin. I am very anxious not to get branded as communal in my thinking. I want to be hailed as a secularist and so I would say with all the force I can command that Mr Husain has the inalienable right to depict the Hindu deities in the most obscene manner while taking care to paint even non-religious Muslims fully clothed. He can claim that because he hates Hitler he painted him in the nude so he could humiliate him and in the same breath justify his nude pictures of Hindu goddesses as depiction of purity. And because I am secular, I would also assert that his not returning to India is only to gain freedom from the Indian fascism and not to avoid being apprehended by the law enforcers in this country. Being a liberal-minded artist, he naturally is not able to put up with the protests which do not harm him in any way. Shunning the Indian system and preferring the Qatar environment is not an act of hypocrisy but one of liberal, secular and free thought. And now that Mr Husain has established himself as such a stout campaigner for free expression, I must believe firmly that he will forcefully plead with his new protectors in Qatar to roll out of a bit of that red carpet to Taslima Nasreen, another hounded victim from the literary world. - Cho S. Ramaswamy is a well-known political analyst, actor, dramatist and editor of Tamil magazine Tughlak Source : http://www.deccanchronicle.com/blogs/others/feel-free-mr-husain-go-paint-qatari-leaders-773 _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-requ...@sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
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--- Begin Message ---after babri masjid, i am sure there is a conspiracy to demolish khajuraho also now after reading such pieces...it is a matter of shame that some of the reader's list members are worried about the paintings of an artist (who inspired thousands of young artists in this country for free expression) but you do not voice your concern with equal gusto when women are being raped and killed in the country. what makes you think that you own this culture? On 3/10/10, Bipin Trivedi <ali...@dataone.in> wrote: > Thanks Pawan for posting this article. > > Cho Ramaswami is absolutely right by saying ” All those who appreciate his > art would now eagerly await his imaginative paintings of the leaders of > Qatari > society, hopefully not artistically clothed.” > > Actually it is his dirty mind inspires him to make goddess nude pictures and > not the artistic mind. He is really psychic and needs psychiatric treatment. > However, pseudo-secular readers here will sure to oppose this article. > > Thanks > Bipin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: reader-list-boun...@sarai.net [mailto:reader-list-boun...@sarai.net] > On Behalf Of Pawan Durani > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:48 PM > To: reader-list > Subject: [Reader-list] Feel free, Mr Husain. Go paint Qatari leaders > > Feel free, Mr Husain. Go paint Qatari leaders > > March 10th, 2010 > By Cho Ramaswamy > > > Now that M.F. Husain has settled in Qatar where there is total > freedom, he is free of the shackles imposed by the Indian system on > freedom of expression. All those who appreciate his art would now > eagerly await his imaginative paintings of the leaders of Qatari > society, hopefully not artistically clothed. > > His fans would not expect him to confine nudity to Hindu deities > alone; it would extend to all the religions. Having already painted > his mother, daughter and Muslim kings fully robed, Mr Husain, being > the freed citizen that he is now in Qatar, should be prepared to > remove those clothes. How can the artist in him be satisfied with > seeing Saraswati and Parvati alone in the nude? > > Fortunately for art in the nude, the courts here cannot do anything to > Mr Husain now that he has run away from the Indian judicial system. > All the cases could be now buried amidst the pictures drawn by him. > Both would mercifully go to the dustbin. > > I am very anxious not to get branded as communal in my thinking. I > want to be hailed as a secularist and so I would say with all the > force I can command that Mr Husain has the inalienable right to depict > the Hindu deities in the most obscene manner while taking care to > paint even non-religious Muslims fully clothed. > > He can claim that because he hates Hitler he painted him in the nude > so he could humiliate him and in the same breath justify his nude > pictures of Hindu goddesses as depiction of purity. > > And because I am secular, I would also assert that his not returning > to India is only to gain freedom from the Indian fascism and not to > avoid being apprehended by the law enforcers in this country. Being a > liberal-minded artist, he naturally is not able to put up with the > protests which do not harm him in any way. > > Shunning the Indian system and preferring the Qatar environment is not > an act of hypocrisy but one of liberal, secular and free thought. And > now that Mr Husain has established himself as such a stout campaigner > for free expression, I must believe firmly that he will forcefully > plead with his new protectors in Qatar to roll out of a bit of that > red carpet to Taslima Nasreen, another hounded victim from the > literary world. > > - Cho S. Ramaswamy is a well-known political > analyst, actor, dramatist and editor of > Tamil magazine Tughlak > > Source : > http://www.deccanchronicle.com/blogs/others/feel-free-mr-husain-go-paint-qatari-leaders-773 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-requ...@sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-requ...@sarai.net with subscribe > in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>
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