Re: Berachos 053: Havdalah and Women

[Mordecai Kornfeld]

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Re: Berachos 053: Havdalah and Women

David Kalb asked:

>> I understand that there is a position then men when they recite Mariv on
>> Motsay Shabbat should make a point to leave Minyan before Havdalah so
>> that they can recite Havdalah for their wife. The reason being is that
>> there is some problem with doing it for your wife once you have heard it
>> youself because you are already Yotsay. So when you do it for her you do
>> not really need to do it since you're are yotsay and she does not really
>> have to hear it because she is not obligated. What's more she can not
>> really do it for herself because she is not obligated. <<

The Kollel replied:

>>  If we sum it all up, the best thing is to follow the ruling of the Rema
>> and have the women being Yotzei by hearing it from a man. This avoids
>> all complications. If this is impossible, the woman should make Havdalah
>> herself, since the Shulchan Aruch sides with the opinion that a woman is
>> indeed obligated to make Havdalah. (In this case she may and is required
>> to drink from the Kos a proper amount.)

Therefore, the custom you mentioned, having in mind not to be Yotzei with
Havdalah done in the Shul, is indeed the correct practice if there are
women back home. <<

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Sam Kosofsky asks:

Rebbe,
 
A man says Ata Chonantanu in Maariv of Motzei Shabbos.  By doing so he has
effectively made a havdala and is allowed to work, drive home from shul
etc.  Making havdala on a kos with ner and besamim doesn't change that so
his leaving shul early to skip hearing havdala shouldn't affect the
situation at all.  (It seems a little funny to leave shul early anyway.)  
 
If a man already heard kiddush or the megilla or something else that he's
chayav to mmake or hear he can still be motzei someone else even though he
was already yotzei.  
 
Why would a woman's chiyuv to be mavdeel between kodesh and chol be
different from a man's chiyuv according to those poskim who make the
distinction?  Her chiyuv to hear kiddush or make it herself if no man is
there seems to be the same.
 
Sam Kosofsky

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The Kollel replies:

Shalom.

First, I'm not recommending leaving Shul early. One can remain and hear
Havdalah, but have in mind not to be Yotzei. 

There is an obligation to say Havdalah in Davening and also to say it over
a Kos.  So even though a man says Ata Chonantanu, he still has an
obligation to say Havdalah over a Kos.

The point you raise about a man saying Kiddush or Megillah for a woman is a
valid point. Keep in mind however, that in these cases a woman has an
obligation to say Kiddush or Megillah just as a man has. Thus a man can
repeat Kiddush or Megillah for a woman although he heard it already, just
as he can do so for a man. Havdalah though, is different, since according
to some poskim a woman is not obligated to say Havdalah. Although she may
choose to say Havdalah nonetheless, a man cannot say Havdalah specifically
for a woman, just as the case with Shofar (see earlier response). 

Kol tuv

Yehuda Landy


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