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THE DAFYOMI DISCUSSION LIST brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf of Yerushalayim Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] [REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE TO DISCUSS THE DAF WITH THE KOLLEL] ________________________________________________________________ Re: Makos 007: Euthanasia Irwin asked: >>I just learnt that killing a tereifah person is not considered killing >>insofar as it is not punishable. Does that mean that eutheanasia, where the >>person has a severeley defective organ that will result in his dying in a >>short time, is permissable according to Jewish law. The Kollel replied: >>An example of how one may not cease short-term life is found in Avodah Zarah >>18a which relates how Rebbi Chanina ben Tradyon was burnt at the stake by the >>Romans. His disciples urged him to open his mouth so that the flames would >>enter quicker and he would suffer a less painful death. Rebbi Chanina >>replied, "It is better that Hashem who gave me my soul should take it away >>from me, rather than I should hasten my death". One learns from this that >>hastening death is forbidden by the Torah. ------------- Moshgiach commented: If memory serves me, the meforshim explain that his actions were lifnim meshores hadin or a matter of extreme piety. Ordinary people not of his caliber would not be required to prolong a painful death. ------------------------------ The Kollel replies: (1) I think you may have in mind the commentary of the Iyun Yaakov on the Ein Yaakov on Avodah Zarah 18a. He asks from Tosfos Gitin 57b DH Koftzu why Rebbi Chanina ben Tradyon did not want to open his mouth to hasten his death. The Gemara Gitin 57b relates how 400 Jewish boys and girls were captured and were being transported by ship. They realized that the aim of their captors was to practice homosexuality on the boys and to sell the girls as concubines so they all decided to jump into the sea to prevent this, and one sees from the Gemara that they merited the World to Come for this self-sacrifice. Tosfos there asks from our Gemara that one sees from Rebbi Chanina that one is not allowed to commit suicide for such reasons, and Tosfos answers that the children were afraid they were going to be tortured. Tosfos cites Kesuvos 33b that if Chananya, Mishael and Azarya would have been tortured they would have bowed down to the image. Iyun Yaakov therefore asks how does Rebbi Chanina's action concile with what Tosfos writes that "when one is afraid of suffering one may commit suicide"? The Iyun Yaakov answers that Rebbi Chanina's action was one of piety, even though he suffered great suffering from the prolonged death, but was not obligatory according to the Halachah. However the Iyun Yaakov concludes that from the words of Tosfos Avodah Zarah 18a DH v'Al it does not seem that Rebbi Chanina's action was merely piety, and the Iyun Yaakov concludes that this matter requires further research. (2) However many commentaries disagree with the Iyun Yaakov's suggestion. See Teshuvas Chasam Sofer YD 326:3 DH Odos who discusses suicide in Halachah and writes that there is no doubt that suicide is a great crime and is included in the three cardinal sins of idol worship, immoral relations and murder. In fact the Chasam Sofer implies that it is worse than these because if someone did these he does at least receive atonement through the suffering of dying afterwards, while someone who murdered himself will not receive atonement through his own death since he caused it himself. The Chasam Sofer proves this from Rebbi Chanina - even though he was suffering greatly and death would be better for him than living (these are the words of the prophet Yonah 4:3) - nevertheless he would not hasten his death. The Chasam Sofer writes that it is clear from this that even though someone is suffering very greatly, nevertheless if he takes his own life he is considered a murderer, and dies wick ed. (The Chasam Sofer adds a cryptic comment that from this one can prove that the book "Besamim Rosh" is a forgery. There was a book published in the time of the the Chasam Sofer whose author claimed that it was a long-lost manuscript and was in fact the responsa of the Rosh. I believe that one of the things he wrote was that one may commit suicide to avoid great suffering. The Chasam Sofer comments that the fact that he wrote this, proves that the book is a forgery. Everyone now agrees that it was a hoax.) (3) See Bava Kama 91b that derives from Bereishis 9:5 "Your blood for your souls I will demand" that one is forbidden to commit suicide. Tosfos DH Ella Hai writes that one is also not allowed to kill one's self out of fear. The Maharshal there in the Yam Shel Shlomo (Bava Kama 8:59) also writes that one sees from Rebbi Chanina that the Halachah forbids suicide in such a case (not merely an act of piety). (4) See also the Sefer Chasidim #467 that people who kill patients before their time will be punished. He writes that this is similar to Rebbi Chanina who did not want to open his mouth in order not to hasten his death. (5) It seems to me that one can refute the Iyun Yaakov's suggestion by asserting that there is a distinction between someone who commited suicide in order to prevent himself from suffering, and between a person who did so because he was afraid that as a result of torture, he was going to be forced to transgress the Torah. This is stated by Tosfos (Avodah Zarah 18a Dh v'Al) who writes in the name of Rabeinu Tam that if one is afraid that the heathens will force one, through insufferable torture, to do a transgression, it is a Mitzvah to kill one's self. This is why the children jumped into the sea. It seems that when the Tosfos in Gitin writes that "when one is afraid of suffering one may commit suicide" this also means that as a result of the suffering one might transgress a prohibition, but to prevent suffering alone, Tosfos does not permit suicide. In fact it seems to me that this must be the Pshat in Tosfos, because otherwise he never answered his question, since Rebbi Ch anina was also suffering, and Tosfos did not answer that what Rebbi Chanina did was only Midas Chasidus as the Iyun Yaakov suggested. (See also Sefer ha'Ikarim by R. Yosef Albo, Maamar 3, end of ch.29) Chanukah Sameach Dovid Bloom >>><><><>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<< The *D*AFYOMI *A*DVANCEMENT *F*ORUM, brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf Write to us at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit us at http://www.dafyomi.co.il Fax(US):(206) 202-0323; Fax(Isr): (02) 591-6024; Tel(Isr): (02) 651-5004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date: 11/24/2007 5:58 PM _______________________________________________ Daf-discuss mailing list Daf-discuss@shemayisrael.co.il http://mailman.shemayisrael.com/mailman/listinfo/daf-discuss_shemayisrael.co.il