Re: General: Rav Sternbuch and psychologists

[Kollel Iyun Hadaf]

x-mailing-list: daf-disc...@shemayisrael.com
(Please include header and footer when redistributing this material.)
_________________________________________________________________

                 THE DAFYOMI DISCUSSION LIST

      brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf of Yerushalayim
             Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
                      d...@dafyomi.co.il

 [REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE TO DISCUSS THE DAF WITH THE KOLLEL]
________________________________________________________________

Re: General: Rav Sternbuch and psychologists

Shlomo Zalman asked:
>>However, some of the many participants in the forum are taking the quotation 
>>to mean that Rav Sternbuch believes that even the best therapists are no 
>>good, and it doesn't enhance their respect for Rav Sternbuch or other 
>>rebbeim. 

The Kollel replied:
>>I am attaching the relevant Teshuvah (which is also available online at 
>>www.dafyomi.co.il/general/psych1.jpg ). Since all those in the Orthodox Forum 
>>understand Hebrew there is not much to add. Reading the Teshuvah will reveal 
>>its true intent and undermine the efforts of those who wish to mock the Torah.

----------

Paul Kandel responded:

The teshuva itself does seem to be a blanket statement--both the question and 
the opening lines of the teshuva imply that he is speaking generally. While Rav 
Sternbuch explicitly says towards the end of the first paragraph that "even the 
best of them [psychologists] should not be involved with those who because of 
their sins became depressed or similar," he nowhere states that his teshuva 
refers only to this group. In the second and third paragraphs, Rav Sternbuch 
never specifies any group, and seems to be speaking generally, especially when 
he quotes the Rambam. 

With the term "even the best of them", Rav Sternbuch's intention is unclear. 
Does he mean "anyone educated in secular psychology, whether God-fearing or 
not"? It seems obvious that the "wise, understanding, God-fearing person" can 
be most effective if he is familiar with the most up to date psychological 
research. However, the term "even the best of them" seems to eliminate from 
consideration anyone who has studied psychology outside the bet midrash.

Overall, if the teshuva refers to a specific category of patients and 
caregivers, then it should clearly state the precise parameters within which 
the teshuva applies. The teshuva is vague enough that after reading it several 
times and also reading Rav Kornfeld's explanation, I do not feel as though I 
have gained any usable information beyond the obvious "do not claim that all is 
permissible".

---------------------------
The Kollel replies:

I discussed the topic with Rav Sigler, who is Meshamesh Rav Sternbuch 
extensively. He confirmed my understanding of the Rav's opinion on the matter. 
The Rav's reaction is to pure Freudian psychology which encourages "letting it 
all hang out."

If his Teshuvah is unclear to the lay person, it is a shame. For myself, I had 
no trouble recognizing the cues (in the opening lines and the second paragraph 
- the third isn't relevant). His objections to those who permit people to sin 
were not veiled.

A God-fearing "Rofei Nefesh" will certainly be all the more capable for his 
knowledge of modern psychology. BUt that does not mean that if he lacks that 
knowledge he is incapable of helping others, or less capable than a standard 
trained psychologist. Let's face it, modern psychology is some 100 years old, 
but the problems it deals with have been around for thousands of years And in 
all that time, mankind was gaining experience in dealing with them more 
effectively.

Best wishes,
Mordecai Korneld

 >>><><><>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<<
The *D*AFYOMI *A*DVANCEMENT *F*ORUM, brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf
Write to us at d...@dafyomi.co.il or visit us at http://www.dafyomi.co.il
Fax(US):(206) 202-0323; Fax(Isr): (02) 591-6024; Tel(Isr): (02) 651-5004  


_______________________________________________
Daf-discuss mailing list
Daf-discuss@shemayisrael.co.il
http://shemayisrael.co.il/mailman/listinfo/daf-discuss_shemayisrael.co.il