Kollel Iyun Hadaf
Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:41:33 -0700
x-mailing-list: daf-disc...@shemayisrael.com (Please include header and footer when redistributing this material.) _________________________________________________________________
THE DAFYOMI DISCUSSION LIST
brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf of Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
d...@dafyomi.co.il
[REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE TO DISCUSS THE DAF WITH THE KOLLEL]
________________________________________________________________
Re: General: New To Talmud
Chaim Garcia asked:
>>4) And lastly, do you recommend Soncino or Artscroll?
The Kollel replied:
>>4) The Artscroll translation of the Talmud has gained tremendous popularity
>>in the last few years. I would attribute this to its "user friendliness".
>>The translation is in a modern idiom, vowelling of the text is included in
>>the translation, introductory statements are used liberally to keep the
>>reader oriented. Try both and see which feels more comfortable.
Avrohom Glenn commented:
>>As an interesting aside, Rav Moshe Feinstein, ZT"l, is quoted a giving the
>>reason for starting with Perek Elu Metzios as following: The first thing that
>>a budding Yeshiva student must firmly establish in his heart and mind is the
>>idea that someone else's money and property are not available for the taking.
>>Property belonging to another, even if found not in the actual possession of
>>another, must be returned to its rightful owner. This also teaches a young
>>child ( or beginner of any age) to "keep his hands clean of someone else's
>>property!
----------------
Chaim Katz commented:
Dear Kollel,
I wouldn't recommend the comeandhear site for anything. It's obviously put up
by missionaries - sonnei yisrael. There's also no way that they could ever
have got legal permission to post the soncino edition.
(I don't know how google works, but I heard that the more people who go to a
site, the higher the site scores in the search engine so please don't post this
or encourage people to visit comeandhear
Thanks,
chaim
----------------
Yitzchok Goldson commented:
Shalom Rav Shlita.
You unwittingly mentioned a certain site for translation of the Talmud that was
originally done in 1898 and republished in 1918 by Michael L. Rodkinson who was
a reform clergyman. I had the original of this work many years ago and found
that Rodkinson was going to first amend the whole text of shass and then
print that with a translation. The project was never finished and he ended up
only printing 10 volumes of the English in 1898, but gave up the rest when he
didn't get enough support from the reform, who thought the project pointless
nor from the Orthodox who though the project blasphemous. It was reprinted in
1918,
The web site that includes this work. is itself problematic since it also has
translations of many texts from all of the assorted avoda zorahs. Not
something to bring to the frum learning audience.
I understand that you were only republishing some one else's response to your
message and also included some very fine sites for Gemorah. I just thought
that I would point this problem out.
Shalom Al Yisroel,
Yitzchok Goldson
----------------
Josh Hoff commented:
I heard from Rav REuven Feinstein that Rav Moshe's comments about starting with
eilu Metzios were made in connection with a meeting of thwe rebbeim at MTJ.
Manhattan Day School has switched the haschalas hegemara class from Eilu Metzos
to berachos, because it was felt that this was more relevant for te students'
lives, so the rebbeim at MTJ asked Rav Moashe whether the yeshiva should do the
same. Rav Moashe, at the time, answered that it a mesorah to start w/ Eilu
Metzios, and so the yeshiva would continue th at mesorah.
Rav Reuven, however, said that on 2 later occasions, Rav Moshe told hm other
reasons for not awitching. fIrst, he said that although there are many
important halachos in Bwerachos the reality of the shuls was problematic, since
they start davening on Shabbos at 9:00, they often don't make zman kerias
ahema. The young talmid would conclude that making zman kerias shema is a nice
thing, but if you miss it, that is also alright. Since this would be the
student's introduction to gemara, he would come to think that all halacha is
that way. Better, then, to start with Eilu Metzios.
On a later occasion, Rav Moshe said that during the first yr. of learning
gemara, not that many blatt are covered. Rathe r, the student is drilled on
word, phrases, etc., so that he becomes familair witht hestyle of th egemara.
as a result, the student has drilled into his mind countless times that one
should never take another person's property for himself.
>>><><><>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<<
The *D*AFYOMI *A*DVANCEMENT *F*ORUM, brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf
Write to us at d...@dafyomi.co.il or visit us at http://www.dafyomi.co.il
Fax(US):(206) 202-0323; Fax(Isr): (02) 591-6024; Tel(Isr): (02) 651-5004
_______________________________________________
Daf-discuss mailing list
Daf-discuss@shemayisrael.co.il
http://shemayisrael.co.il/mailman/listinfo/daf-discuss_shemayisrael.co.il