Kollel Iyun Hadaf
Wed, 03 Feb 2010 02:14:01 -0800
x-mailing-list: daf-disc...@shemayisrael.com
(Please include header and footer when redistributing this material.)
_________________________________________________________________
THE DAFYOMI DISCUSSION LIST
brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf of Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
d...@dafyomi.co.il
[REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE TO DISCUSS THE DAF WITH THE KOLLEL]
________________________________________________________________
Bava Metzia 026: Ramban's Position on Ye'ush
Gur Berman <g...@hilleldayschool.org> asked:
Hi Rabbi Kornfeld amush,
Its been a while. I hope all is well.
I am preparing a chabura on how yeush works (the machloket between the ramban
and tosafot). Ive read the Steipler on this machloket (siman 25 regarding
beisura ati leyadei)as well as his understanding on the rambans position on the
gemara in BM 26 (siman 28):
If I understand correctly, the rambans position is that Yeush functions as a
final break in the baalut of the object. The reason it doesnt work in cases of
aveida (when the yeush occurs after the finder finds the object) is that the
finder is a shomer, the object is considered in the possession of the original
owner, and yeush has no impact in that case. Tosafot disagrees and says that
yesuh removes the chiyuv hashava from the object; once that occurs, a finder
may make a kinyan and take that object. Yeush in and of itself, does not remove
baalut of the object. The ramban needs to explain why yeush by gezeillah doesnt
work. According to the Steipler, in his second explanation, its because the
person who causes!
yeush cannot benefit from that yesuh by taking ownership of that object; the
case in BM 26b is different because there the gazlan did not cause the yeush
and can therefore benefit from it by taking ownership of the object. Thats my
summary; please let me know if you see any mistakes in it.
My question is this: How does the ramban learn the Gemara in Baba Kamma 66a-b
where Raba explains that even he only holds that yeush is koneh when the
finder/thief wants to own the object. The rambans shitta is that yeush in and
of itself severs the baalut of the object. According to him, after yeush, there
is no longer any baalut. I know the Ramban doesnt pasken like Raba but I assume
he accepts Rabas conception of Yeush; This gemara seems to directly contradict
the Rambans view.
As always I look forward to your extraordinarily helpful feedback,
Gur Berman, Boca Raton, Fl
----------------------------------------------
The Kollel replies:
Rav Gur, it is always a pleasure to hear your astute questions and insights.
(The "ask a question" button on our site is a good way to contact me. I
apologize for not getting back to you earlier; we are a bit short-staffed at
the moment.)
Regarding your question, I would suggest that Ye'ush, according to the Ramban,
is like Hefker according to Rebbi Yosi (Nedarim 43a). The way Rebbi Yochanan
understands it, according to Rebbi Yosi an object that is Hefker only leaves
the possession of the original owner at the point when someone makes a Kinyan
on it. Until then, it is still considered to be the property of the original
owner.
I hope this helps you. b'Hatzlachah,
Mordecai Kornfeld
Kollel Iyun Hadaf
_______________________________________________ Daf-discuss mailing list Daf-discuss@shemayisrael.co.il http://shemayisrael.co.il/mailman/listinfo/daf-discuss_shemayisrael.co.il