Marjorie Bloss
Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:05:45 -0800
I'll ask ALA Publishing about making the ER diagram more widely available -- certainly to this group. Cordially, MarjorieMarjorie E. Bloss, RDA Project Manager 2827 West Gregory Street Chicago, Illinois 60625 USA 1-773-878-4008 1-773-519-4009 (mobile) marjorie_bl...@msn.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:02:23 -0500> From: b...@loc.gov> Subject: Re: [DC-RDA] [RDA] new analysis of scenarios 7, 8, 9, 10; updates to scenarios 1-6> To: DC-RDA@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> > Nannette Naught built an entity-relationship diagram for the online version of RDA and presented it in her powerpoint presentation for RDA at ALA last year. Attached is the slide - you will need to zoom to a larger image to be able to read it. I'm attaching all 3 she prepared for that presentation. She had given me permission to use these in discussions in Sweden in November. - Barbara> > Dr. Barbara B. Tillett, Ph.D.> Chief, Policy and Standards Division> Library of Congress> 101 Independence Ave., S.E.> Washington, D.C. 20540-4260> U.S.A.> > tel.: +1 (202) 707-4714> fax: +1 (202) 707-6629> email: b...@loc.gov> > >>> Alistair Miles <alistair.mi...@zoo.ox.ac.uk> 1/6/2009 2:57 AM >>>> On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 10:11:49AM -0800, Karen Coyle wrote:> > BTW, I just looked at the ERD that was created out of the RDA> > documents (and that forms the basis of the online system) (and is> > unfortunately not publicly available... but we hope that it someday> > will be)... and it looks like there are many empty nodes beyond the> > few that I listed here. So I'll look at that some more.> > By ERD do you mean entity-relationship diagram? If so, can you send me> a copy? You say it was created from the RDA documents, do you know how> that was done?> > Cheers,> > Alistair> > > > > Meanwhile, as you know the full draft of RDA is out, but is huge and> > hard to read. (The ToC is 74 pages long!) For our purposes, it would> > be good to look at the element list that I cited earlier today, and> > one or two representative chapters. The list of documents is at> > http://www.rdaonline.org/constituencyreview/ > > > > Chapter 0 (http://www.rdaonline.org/constituencyreview/Phase1Chp0_10_22_08.pdf)> > gives an overview, but I don't think it gives you a real flavor for> > the rules.> > Chapter 1 (http://www.rdaonline.org/constituencyreview/Phase1Chp1_10_23_08.pdf)> > might be more useful as an illustrative chapter for bibliographic> > description.> > > > The other part of RDA is "access", and the creation of access points.> > These are primarily relevant to the FRBR Group 2 elements, and for> > that Chapter 8 is key> > (http://www.rdaonline.org/constituencyreview/Phase1Chp8_10_25_08.pdf)> > as is chapter 18> > (http://www.rdaonline.org/constituencyreview/Phase1Chp18_11_2_08.pdf).> > > > I'm particularly concerned about the chapters on relationships,> > chapters 17 - 22. Chapter 17 had me gritting my teeth over its concept> > of "identifier."> > (http://www.rdaonline.org/constituencyreview/Phase1Chp17_11_2_08.pdf)> > > > I doubt if many of us will get through all of these documents, much> > less the whole of RDA, but I recommend dipping a toe in to get a sense> > of the rules and treatment of elements of bibliographic data.> > > > kc> > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Karen Coyle <kcoyle...@gmail.com> wrote:> > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Mikael Nilsson <mik...@nilsson.name> wrote:> > >> Karen,> > >>> > >> I really don't see the issue with defining classes for these object.> > >> > > I don't either, in the RDF sense of "class as structure." Although, as> > > Jon points out, some of them may be syntax encoding schemes, so we> > > need to think about it more. What I don't want is for the RDF to get> > > in the way of presenting this to the library community, so I prefer> > > for it to stay in the background, doing the work it needs to do> > > without interfering with our users, who are not going to be> > > RDF-compliant ;-).> > >> > > We will be pointing people to the registry to see what we have done.> > > I'm afraid that if we start defining classes at this point we might> > > change things to the point that it won't look like RDA to our key> > > audience (the creators of RDA), since they don't think in those terms.> > > This means that for we should stick with their structure and> > > definitions (which I encourage everyone to view at> > > http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/jsc/docs/5rda-elementanalysisrev2.pdf)> > > (this is what you, Mikael, saw at the London meeting). Perhaps we can> > > discuss where we see classes emerging, and do some background work to> > > figure out how they could / if they could / facilitate the creation of> > > application profiles based on RDA.> > >> > > The "empty nodes" in the RDA element analysis are the ones with> > > 'element' and 'sub-element':> > >> > > production statement> > > publication statement> > > distribution statement> > > manufacture statement> > > series statement> > > dissertation or thesis information> > > place and date of capture> > >> > > These are NOT the only areas that might be relevant for an analysis of> > > classes; these are just the ones where we have the 'empty node'> > > problem. There are many elements that have a defined element and> > > defined element sub-types, which we are treating as properties and> > > sub-properties in the registry. Whether there are any classes to be> > > defined around these is another large question. (In fact, I think that> > > many of them are just properties and sub-properties.)> > >> > > In terms of classes, as you may know, we will be looking at FRBR and> > > FRAD entities as classes. I think this works well for agents (group> > > 2), but I'm less clear on the Group 1 entities (work, expression...> > > etc.) because they have a lot of overlapping properties, and the group> > > 3 entities (subjects) because group 3 becomes a kind of super-class,> > > where every other class can be a member of that class. Not that that's> > > a problem, we just have to figure out if it works for us to define it> > > that way. I'd love to have a discussion of the implications of the> > > FRBR and FRAD entities on the RDA data -- at the moment the connection> > > is tenuous, and I'm not sure it's a good idea to firm it up.> > >> > > kc> > >> > > --> > > -- ---> > > Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant> > > kco...@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net > > > ph.: 510-540-7596 skype: kcoylenet> > > mo.: 510-435-8234> > > ------------------------------------> > >> > > > > > > > -- > > -- ---> > Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant> > kco...@kcoyle.net http://www.kcoyle.net > > ph.: 510-540-7596 skype: kcoylenet> > mo.: 510-435-8234> > ------------------------------------> > -- > Alistair Miles> Senior Computing Officer> Image Bioinformatics Research Group> Department of Zoology> The Tinbergen Building> University of Oxford> South Parks Road> Oxford> OX1 3PS> United Kingdom> Web: http://purl.org/net/aliman > Email: alistair.mi...@zoo.ox.ac.uk > Tel: +44 (0)1865 281993