I agree with Stephen... we should NOT do binary releases for any other system than the existing tar.gz and zip to Central/Apache Archive. If users of a specific ecosystem want to distribute Maven within their system .. fine. But its up to them to do it. All others like Linux distro packaging, brew, ports and many others do that. sdkman should be in the same category ... and if they dont want to distribute Maven .. thats fine with me (and us..) too.
manfred Stephen Connolly wrote on 2017-04-16 06:49: > On Sun 16 Apr 2017 at 11:32, Marco Vermeulen <vermeulen...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Maven folks, >> >> I really haven't come here to start a flame war or to give justification >> about why/how I built SDKMAN. Even less, justifying why I gave it such a >> "silly" name. I have come here with friendly intent to help your community >> publish their own releases on SDKMAN. I've come back since I was urged to >> do so [1] recently on Twitter by the @ASFMavenProject account. > > > Twitter is not a good place for discussion. > > We currently have 30 steps (some complex) to get a release out the door. > > We want every committer capable of acting as release manager for core (I am > currently acting in that role because we had a failure to get releases out) > > To adopt the push model would require: > > 1. Adding another step. > 2. Either keeping shared credentials in a PMC only shared space (and > restrictions on release manager to PMC) or that the PMC has to step up and > take responsibility for *another* step > 3. Even then, we have to remember to do it. > > A pull model can be very simple: you can define the *exact* format of the > page on maven.apache.org. We use a template to populate the info. Every > time we release, the template will be regenerated as part of the site > release anyway (no extra manual step) > > I want to remove steps from the release process, not add. Make it easy for > me to remove steps and you are my friend. Suggestions to add more do not > make me happy > > Publishing >> is as simple as a small API call which can be handled by anyone wishing to >> take up this responsibility in your community. >> >> I won't be defending myself or arguing with anyone on this forum going >> forward. I'm simply asking you for help. Plain and simple. I won't be >> changing the way SDKMAN works, since it already works well and is very >> reliable. All our vendors love it, and are very happy to integrate with us. >> In the process we all win: vendors are given control of their own releases >> and get another channel to distribute their software free of charge, and >> users have a convenient easy-to-use way to install their favourite >> software. I get to stand in the middle and watch it all happen asking >> nothing in return. I like contributing my free time to make developers >> happy and easing their installation pains. This is what I do to make our >> open source world a better place. >> >> If anyone in the community wants to step up and help with this process, >> feel free to contact me and I would be more than happy to get you set up. I >> would issue some API credentials and this would empower you to do a simple >> REST call to make Maven available to all our users across all platforms. >> Feel free to send me a mail at ma...@sdkman.io >> >> Many thanks! >> Marco. >> >> [1] https://twitter.com/ASFMavenProject/status/851132246669103108 >> >> On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 at 10:52 Aldrin Leal <ald...@leal.eng.br> wrote: >> >> > just fyi: github releases has an atom feed. >> > >> > https://github.com/apache/maven/releases.atom >> > >> > -- >> > -- Aldrin Leal, <ald...@leal.eng.br> / http://about.me/aldrinleal >> > >> > On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 4:49 AM, Marco Vermeulen <vermeulen...@gmail.com >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hi Heinz, >> > > >> > > On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 at 08:41 Karl Heinz Marbaise <khmarba...@gmx.de> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Hi, >> > > > >> > > > On 16/04/17 00:56, Marco Vermeulen wrote: >> > > > > Hi Maven folks, >> > > > > >> > > > > Some time ago I asked the Maven dev community whether they would be >> > > > willing >> > > > > to publish their releases on SDKMAN! [1] using our Vendor API [2]. >> > > > > Unfortunately, my request was met with scepticism and ultimately >> > > resulted >> > > > > in no action taken. >> > > > >> > > > What happended out of the idea to scan automatically[1] for new >> > versions >> > > > and insert the data automatically via a crawler which can for example >> > > > scan maven central[2] where all releases of Maven will be distributed >> > > > (also there is a REST API on Maven Central)...or the distirbution >> > > pages... >> > > > >> > > > >> > > The idea to scan/crawl is not feasible for me as crawlers are brittle >> and >> > > time consuming to maintain. I provide SDKMAN in my spare time to help >> > > others, so don't want to spend my time maintaining something like this. >> > > Moreover, why write a piece of infrastructure when a simple API call >> from >> > > your side would do the trick? It would take almost no effort. >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > [1]: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@maven.apache.org/msg108018.html >> > > > [2]: >> > > > >> > > > http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cgav%7C1%7Cg%3A%22org. >> > > apache.maven%22%20AND%20a%3A%22apache-maven%22 >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > I would like to appeal to the Maven dev community again to take on >> > the >> > > > > responsibility of managing their own releases on our platform. >> > > > >> > > > Hm...maybe I misunderstand here a thing but which responsibily does >> the >> > > > Maven dev community has on your platform ? >> > > > >> > > > From my personell point view: none >> > > > >> > > >> > > The maven community has no responsibility, I am asking your community >> for >> > > help. I'm asking you in a friendly manner to take on the responsibility >> > of >> > > publishing, you misunderstood my intent. >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > > The process >> > > > > is very simple: It involves making a few REST calls to our API and >> > > > > instantaneously releases become available for all the SDKMAN! users >> > out >> > > > > there. >> > > > >> > > > This is the point which is the problem...or the "scepticism" you >> > > > mentioned... >> > > > >> > > > To be honest you seemed to be ignoring the suggestions for >> improvements >> > > > on your platform which could make it easier to integrate parts on >> your >> > > > platform...not only for us also for many other tools...which would >> > > > improve the accepting for the support of your platform... >> > > > >> > > >> > > All the others communities out there were more than happy to do the API >> > > call. This community being the first out of all the others to show any >> > > resistance. Empowering SDK vendors by exposing an API seems by far more >> > > preferred among our vendors as it puts them in control of their own >> > > releases. Releases become available fast and reliably, and they have >> full >> > > control over this. >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > In earlier days you have declined[1] to support maven at all now you >> > > > have changed your mind which of course is fine... >> > > > >> > > >> > > Yes, I changed my mind because I was urged [1] to do so on twitter by >> > your >> > > very own twitter account. >> > > >> > > [1] https://twitter.com/ASFMavenProject/status/851132246669103108 >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > [3]: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MNG-5749 >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Many other teams are already doing this, including Gradle, Kotlin, >> > > > Groovy, >> > > > > Ceylon and Spring Boot to name a few. It would be great to have you >> > > guys >> > > > on >> > > > > board too. >> > > > > >> > > > > I currently perform these releases for Maven manually, which >> > > > unfortunately >> > > > > is not something I can sustain going forward. >> > > > >> > > > If the sdkman user community has already asked for support why don't >> > you >> > > > solve the problem ? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > The problem has long been solved by us exposing an API. The problem >> here >> > > seems to be with an insular community who does not want to reach out to >> > > others to help. In this case, by making a simple API call at release >> > time. >> > > >> > > >> > > > In three ways. Removing the manuall work for yourself, the acceptance >> > of >> > > > your platform to support more tools and finally fulfill the need of >> > your >> > > > user community...(Which I think is the most important part here). >> > > > >> > > > In particular if it could be done by using a curl call on maven >> central >> > > > or a little bit more if you like to scan the >> > > > http://maven.apache.org/docs/history.html page (jsoup is very easy) >> > from >> > > > your site... >> > > > >> > > > In a nutshell I would say why not implementing a scan service >> yourself >> > > > which takes some time, but I got the impression that writing all >> these >> > > > mails/tickets etc. and discussions takes more time than implementing >> > > > such a service... >> > > > >> > > >> > > In a nutshell, from a software engineering perspective a push (API) is >> > > always preferred to a pull (crawler). I have enabled push on our >> platform >> > > and all the other software providers have loved it. Subsequently none >> > have >> > > hesitated to adopted it. I won't be implementing an inferior pull model >> > > anytime soon, especially as this problem has already been solved very >> > > elegantly with an easy push. >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > Kind regards >> > > > Karl Heinz Marbaise >> > > > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > -- > Sent from my phone > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
