Antoine de Saint-Exupéry said it best...

[LARRY KLAES]

I was going to give this long write-up explaining more of my reason for the Icepick list, but instead I found this quote from the author of The Little Prince who summed it up perfectly:     "If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry   http://www.angelfire.com/hi/littleprince/     Maybe we won't actually build Icepick and send it to Europa and have it swim in that alien sea. But then again maybe someone reading from this list will be inspired to make it happen.  And there are already plenty of others dreaming the same dream about so many space projects.  And I'm into them too.   Larry "As for the future, your task is not to forsee it, but to enable it." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry   ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Turner To: europa@klx.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 11:03 PM Subject: RE: Closure of the europa mailing list Larry writes: "Perhaps now it is best that the list move on to where discussions can be expanded upon in order to turn the talk into a real Icepick."   The premise of that statement is that discussions here can contribute to a mission that is, at minimum, a generation in the future.  Any such mission will require billions of dollars, a great deal of technical groundwork, and a base of experience accumulated by conducting less ambitious work on the Moon and on Mars.   When I first joined this list, I looked through the archives and was intrigued that some people here were actually trying to build something.  However, the more I became acquainted with the actual engineering requirements of a probe that could reach Europa's ocean, the more incredulous I became that people were trying to prototype any such probe in their garages.  I stayed on the list because there was the occasional posting of interest, and the occasional interesting discussion (even if that discussion was frequently off-topic.)   If I hadn't been on this list, I would probaby never have met some interesting people - specifically, Jack Reeve and Gary McMurtry.  It's been worthwhile for that alone.   On the other hand ... I think there's a certain sense among space enthusiasts that there's something inherently noble in 'reaching for the stars.'  The problem is, you don't make upward progress unless you're also reaching for the next rung of a ladder.  What ladder?  Where?  If one doesn't exist, how do you build one?  If building such a ladder requires public money, how do you generate political will?  And if political will fails to materialize, is this not a recipe for bitterness?   Far-future goals fail to energize and eventually lose their appeal when there is no near-term satisfaction to be had in pursuing them.  In Tom Stoppard's play, "The Coast of Utopia" we hear Herzen say, "A distant end is not an end but a trap.  The end we work for must be closer - the laborer's wage, the pleasure in the work done, the summer lightning of personal happiness."  These were the words of a former revolutionary who had become a political gradualist.  Earlier, he'd groused that "the people are more interested in potatoes than in freedom."  Eventually he became a realist about human nature, but without losing hope.   I may live long enough to hear news of Europa's ocean finally being reached.  In the meantime, however, I don't see a *realistic* path to contributing directly to this goal in my remaining lifetime.  For me, there are better things to be involved in.   It's still a great goal, don't get me wrong about that.   -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]        -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of LARRY KLAES Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 8:59 AM To: europa@klx.com Subject: Re: Closure of the europa mailing list Posting to the Icepick list has always been something of walking on a narrow path. Too few posts and the list is essentially sterile.  Too many and it gets clogged up and dies.    I tried to post articles that were either relevant to the discussion of exploring Europa or related to it to better improve the knowledge base of the list.  Obviously if a subject gets folks interest they are going to expand on it, and it is rather hard to contain such enthusiasm and bursts of information, which I have seen many times on this list, and which has a far higher signal-to-noise ratio than many similar ones which purport to be about space and related topics.  In the end I could not stop posting or see other posts not happen, because then why have such a list at all?   I have long hoped - and still do - that discussing the exploration of Europa with submarine probes will help to bring about its reality some day.  I do appreciate the long effort Jeff has made to keep the list and idea alive, which started off in 1998 as a way for the Boston Chapter of the National Space Society (NSS) to have a space project to focus its members energy, time, and talents.    Perhaps now it is best that the list move on to where discussions can be expanded upon in order to turn the talk into a real Icepick.   I look forward to seeing where the list will be taken now.  I hope it too is run as well as Jeff has done it and the quality is maintained.  I also hope to see all of you there making your contributions to the exploration of an amazing world.   Thanks and regards,   Larry   ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Barrera To: europa@klx.com Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 8:28 PM Subject: Re: Closure of the europa mailing list Or I could just host it on polymathy.org... either way. Eugen Leitl wrote: >On Sat, Feb 26, 2005 at 11:15:30AM -0500, Jeff Foust wrote: > >  > >>distribution list as well.  This makes it increasingly difficult to >>support the operation of this list. >>    >> > >Thanks for being our host for so long. > >  > >>Therefore, I must sadly inform you that this list will be shut down in >>one week, on Saturday, March 5.  At that time the list will no longer >>relay messages and the list of subscribers will be destroyed.  >>Hopefully, this one-week period will give any interested parties the >>time needed to create and announce a new list to the group.  Again, I >>regret having to make such a move, but the current state of Internet >>email traffic leaves me no other options. >>    >> > >As a temporary placeholder (unless a better host comes along; I am currently >unable to offer a highly available system) I've created [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your Group europa-space has been created. You can access your group using the >link below or from the Yahoo! Groups "My Groups" page. >Group name: europa-space >Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/europa-space >Group email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >  > -- That girl became the spring wind She flew somewhere, far away Undoing her hair, lying down, in her sleep She becomes the wind. == You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list:   europa@klx.com Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/