Re: Thomas Gold on alien life deep under the surface

Joe Latrell
Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:33:08 -0700

This might be a bit off topic, but it is an interesting question that comes to mind. How much fossil fuel would be derrived if all current life on earth were reduced to liquid/gaseous hydrocarbons (oil, etc)? If we could get a good guess then look at how much oil has been used over the last century, we could get an idea if Gold's theories in "THE DEEP, HOT BIOSPHERE" are anywhere correct.

Back on topic, I think that a lot of good ideas that deserve a good long look never make it to the light of day because they are scuttled by scientific scrutinity at too early a stage. It is always good to have some solid science behind you but Einstein was treated no better than Gold has been when he first proposed his theories. Only by experimentation was Einsein given any creedence.

To make a long diatribe short, it's all theory until proof happens. The catch becomes devising the experiments using sound scientific practice.

Joe L.

LARRY KLAES wrote:

Yes - how the ear determines pitch and the true nature of pulsars are just two of them: http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13177893&BRD=1395&PAG=461&dept_id=216620 <http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13177893&BRD=1395&PAG=461&dept_id=216620> Almost as an aside, Hefner asked if perhaps the recent concept of infinite universes being created by an infinite number of Big Bangs is just a variation on the Steady State theory. Larry
    ----- Original Message -----
    *From:* Michael Turner <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    *Sent:* Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:10 AM
    *Subject:* Re: Thomas Gold on alien life deep under the surface
Thomas Gold comes up with fascinating theories. But has he ever nailed any of them to the wall? http://wwwaapg.org/explorer/2002/11nov/abiogenic.cfm <http://www.aapg.org/explorer/2002/11nov/abiogenic.cfm> Panspermia is a cool idea. It it doesn't exist, we should invent it. However, inventing theories for panspermia before panspermia itself has run the Occam's Razor gauntlet makes only for fascinating speculation. I love speculating myself, but I don't claim to be a scientist. Fred Hoyle was good (and also loudly bad) at this kind of thing, but I think Hoyle had a few solidly established theories to his credit. Thomas Gold thought the Siljan Ring would bear out his theories after a year of drilling. After six years of drilling, and long wrangling over the results, the theory that fossil fuels are truly fossil-based is still bouncing bullets off its hairy chest. It's time for this: http://www.bobpark.com/Articles/SevenSigns.htm The Seven Warning Signs of Voodoo Science, in Digest Form: *1) A discovery is pitched directly to the media* *2) A powerful "establishment" is said to be suppressing the discovery* *3) An effect is always at the very limit of detection* *4) Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal* *5) A belief is said to be credible because it has endured for centuries* *6) An important discovery is made in isolation* *7) New laws of nature are proposed to explain an incredible observation* Thomas Gold isn't claiming a discovery, and what he says about interstellar planets doesn't directly match any of the criteria above. However, we haven't detected any interstellar planets, they may not be at all abundant, and ... how would we know? You're stuck in (3) "An effect is always at the very limit of detection". In this case, interstellar planets are probably well beyond limits of detection we currently have, barring some very lucky observation for which a repeat would be unlikely. A close reading of Gold's interstellar-planet panspermia theory reveals a stealthy affection for his Deep, Hot Biosphere hypothesis - which was "pitched directly to the media" in a book that's been glowingly reviewed. It takes quite some Google searching to discover that Gold's theory is still on wobbly legs. It's so cute that a lot of people have been sold already. "Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal" - well, in the first link above, you hear petrochemical scientists complaining that the Russian cohort selling abiogenic origins for fossil fuels still hasn't come up with compelling evidence. Abiogenic origins still can't explain more than a tiny fraction of what's found. Gold complains that people aren't looking hard enough. Well, but even he ended up looking much harder than he predicted, without coming up with conclusive evidence. "Endured for centuries" - ah, not in the details, perhaps, but I wonder if some digging wouldn't turn up a manuscript proposing panspermia by Giordano Bruno, who UNSCIENTIFICALLY insisted that God had created a universe full of life, who tried to make it dogma, not a scientific hypothesis. The idea of a non-terrestrial origin for terrestrial life might be a century old, and it might be much older - there are some interesting hints in ancient literature that people were thinking all kinds of thoughts that we associated more with post-Enlightenment science. I score Gold maybe 1.9 out of 7. A good scientist sticks as close to zero as possible, though I like Jeff Bell's idea that every accomplished scientist is entitled to one pet wacko theory. -michael turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        ----- Original Message -----
        *From:* LARRY KLAES <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        *To:* europa <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        *Cc:* BioAstro <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        *Sent:* Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:03 PM
        *Subject:* Thomas Gold on alien life deep under the surface
        *Galactic Panspermia?*
        Are there bodies of planetary sizes that exist in abundance in
        the spaces between the stars? We would not have discovered them
        even if they were so numerous that their combined masses were an
        appreciable fraction of the total masses of all the stars.
        Molecular clouds may well be forming such objects constantly ,
        and only a fraction would come to be associated with a star.
        Perhaps the frequent motion of such objects through the outer
        reaches of our solar system are the causes of the large
        perturbations that comets seem to suffer, and that bring them
        occasionally into the inner part of the solar system where they
        become evident to us. Such objects could contain and maintain
        for billions of years an active internal microbial life, just as
        seems to be the case on the Earth. Panspermia across galactic
        distances would then be a possibility, through impacts spalling
        off pieces like our Martian meteorite, when such an object had
        come, perchance, into the vicinity of a planetary system. In
        this case there would be no dependence on dormant life for long
        periods, nor on any long term resistance to the damage of cosmic
        rays, two problems that have made other galactic scale
        panspermia proposals seem improbable.
http://people.cornell.edu/pages/tg21/Life.html

==
You are subscribed to the Europa Icepick mailing list:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Project information and list (un)subscribe info: http://klx.com/europa/

Reply via email to