Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Tue, 27 Jul 2004 04:15:46 -0700
EV Digest 3724
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Public EV fleets was Re: Plea from Phoenix Motorcars
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) OT: Re: Public EV fleets was Re: Plea from Phoenix Motorcars
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Efficiency of range extender DC vs AC Generator
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: electric bicycles and scooters on sidewalks
by Ed Thorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: universal personal transportation thoughts to ponder
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Hello
by "TdS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Adventures of Mike and the Electric D
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Direct Drive Rig
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: More power!!! Re: battery question
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Crimping or Soldering?
by JCT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Crimping or Soldering?
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: universal personal transportation thoughts to ponder
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Charge Cord Safety (was Re: But I always...)
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) BIG motors for conversion?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: A car well suited for an EV conversion....
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Efficiency of range extender DC vs AC Generator
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: BIG motors for conversion?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: A car well suited for an EV conversion....
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Efficiency of range extender DC vs AC Generator
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: BIG motors for conversion?
by "Klemkosky, Mark A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Unidentified Part
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Unidentified Part
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: Direct Drive Rig
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Efficiency of range extender DC vs AC Generator
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: universal personal transportation thoughts to ponder
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: universal personal transportation thoughts to ponder
by "J Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Efficiency of range extender DC vs AC Generator
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Efficiency of range extender DC vs AC Generator
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Hello
by "Vtikhono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Nanoscale Electrochemistry Aluminium Batteries
by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Public EV fleets was Re: Plea from Phoenix Motorcars
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: 2 motors/no diff, an stuff
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message --- At 1:14 PM -0700 7-26-04, Lee Hart wrote:Ken Trough wrote [on riding bikes on the sidewalk]:I'm pretty sure that it varies state by state. Washington and (I believe) Oregon allow it. California doesn't, but really only if the cop is in a bad mood.
Oh, come on now. Kids have been riding bikes on the sidewalk forever. It would be a death sentence to require them to ride in the street. It is the exception rather than the rule to find bikes prohibited from a sidewalk.
AFAIK, It's perfectly legal in California. Cities may restrict sidewalk riding if they want. Here in Shallow Alto they are prohibited only in the business districts.
-- -Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla. http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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--- Begin Message --- As a kid I remember hearing that it was only legal for kids up to age 16 to ride on the sidewalk in California... But that may have been urban legend ;-)
Andrew
Otmar wrote:
At 1:14 PM -0700 7-26-04, Lee Hart wrote:
Ken Trough wrote [on riding bikes on the sidewalk]:
I'm pretty sure that it varies state by state. Washington and (I believe) Oregon allow it. California doesn't, but really only if the cop is in a bad mood.
Oh, come on now. Kids have been riding bikes on the sidewalk forever. It would be a death sentence to require them to ride in the street. It is the exception rather than the rule to find bikes prohibited from a sidewalk.
AFAIK, It's perfectly legal in California. Cities may restrict sidewalk riding if they want. Here in Shallow Alto they are prohibited only in the business districts.
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--- Begin Message ---How well do the PFC chargers deal with a generator as it is running out of gas? I know my generator surges badly for 20 or 30 seconds before it completely dies. Thanks, Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
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--- Begin Message ---Please folks, lets update the subject line to reflect the thread content. This is no longer about Phoenix nor Public EV fleets. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Letton Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 2:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT: Re: Public EV fleets was Re: Plea from Phoenix Motorcars As a kid I remember hearing that it was only legal for kids up to age 16 to ride on the sidewalk in California... But that may have been urban legend ;-) Andrew Otmar wrote: > At 1:14 PM -0700 7-26-04, Lee Hart wrote: > >> Ken Trough wrote [on riding bikes on the sidewalk]: >> >>> I'm pretty sure that it varies state by state. Washington and (I >>> believe) Oregon allow it. California doesn't, but really only if >>> the cop is in a bad mood. >> >> >> Oh, come on now. Kids have been riding bikes on the sidewalk forever. >> It would be a death sentence to require them to ride in the street. >> It is the exception rather than the rule to find bikes prohibited >> from a sidewalk. > > > AFAIK, It's perfectly legal in California. Cities may restrict > sidewalk riding if they want. Here in Shallow Alto they are prohibited > only in the business districts. >
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--- Begin Message ---I have always been partial to the developement of a system that used a large fleet of mixed use vehicles (some luxury cars, some sports, some SUVs, economy, trucks, even EVs or NEVs) in public parking garages or at park and rides. the vehicles would be fully fuled and ready for use at all times ( wireless phone/gps networks keep the owner/maintainer alerted as to location and use so they can dispatch personel to fuel/fix the individual autos) As a user I merely pass the mag strip on my drivers liciense and then a credit card then the car is remotely unlocked and ready for my use. I am billed by the credit card co all costs including taxes and insurance are spread over the life of the vehicle and shared co operatively. Eventually use would determine fleet make-up. people would be able to drive the approiate vehicle for their needs and there would be better use factor than we presently have. Right now and most of the lifetime of any vehicle it is just setting doing nothing. We drive for a while then park it just sets. then hours later we drive it for a little time then it sets. oh well just some more things to think about kEVS --- Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > good ideas. I really like that zip car idea they > have in Boston. use > public transport and your EV around town almost all > the time, when you > need to haul some lumber, rent a truck by the hour > from home depot or > by the day from U-Haul. Grab a zip car ICE with a > credit card for > longer trips. I think the rental car companies > should adopt a quick > rent procedure, they already have a large number of > neighborhood > rental locations that would be perfect for such a > system. Before they > went out of business, Value rent-a-car rented cars > for $1 per hour, a > really great deal for a quick vegas visit by plane > or LA to do some > shopping then back on the commuter train. > > On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:02:09 -0700 (PDT), Lee Dekker > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Very true on all points. Not sensible to hold ones > breath in expectation of something > > like a battery exchange system. The fact that such > a system could be built quite nicely > > with existing technology while the hydrogen > �dream� requires multiple contorted leaps of > > advancement has nothing to do with the issue. > > > > The point of discussing such a system in the first > place is to get ideas rolling. All > > things start with an idea and input such as the > tax issue is a good example of how an > > idea can progress. It is worth keeping in mind > because little effort is required to do so > > and because there is potential benefit from having > the knowledge. > > > > The point about rental cars is another good option > to consider. So far the personal > > vehicle has trumped all other transportation in > this country. People really like to haul > > their own space around with them in the US. > > > > The much bigger point is that if we want to move > EVs into the main stream, we must create > > a �pull� in that direction. The Pull must come > from a large percent of the population. We > > may know without question that the EV is > inherently the most simple, reliable, efficient > > and ecologically friendly choice. But only when a > large number of the public can also > > grasp the EVs advantages will it have a chance of > production. > > > > Decades of inspired individuals spending their own > time and money to convert ICE vehicles > > into EVs has done very little to inspire the > general public. The EV-1 was borne by a > > single company and now that company has killed > their creation and most memory of it. > > Something else needs to happen for the EV to catch > the eye of the public. > > > > Crazy ideas like battery exchange and EV 75% / > rental ICE 25% need to be tossed around. > > Backyard ICE to EV converting individuals need to > continue their work. But not much will > > happen to propel the EV into the main stream until > there is an awareness and a Pull from > > the public, in that direction . > > > > The fact that we are off on this absurd hydrogen > fuel cell goose chase while EVs are > > almost universally maligned, reflects current > public thought. One can say that thought > > has been manipulated but that is how things are > done. > > > > The hybrids are definitely hitting a cord with the > general public. And they are blurring > > the line between ICE and EV. The day one of these > hybrid units can also be plugged in is > > the day the EV gets its foot in the door. > > > > -- Robert Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Ok, battery stations for exchange is a probable > way to solve some of the problems with > > > both users and government and their taxes. > > > > > > Now, let's look again at what was also discussed > a few years back; > > > > > > The idea of having an electric vehicle for use > of say 75% of the usual person's driving > > > with charging at home and road tax issues worked > out with government based on milage > > > driven on the road or some other way that was > mutually acceptable and fair to both > > > partys involved. > > > > > > Follow this with the use of rental vehicles for > the long haul. If your electric vehicle > > > was not capable of running from Santa Rosa to > San Diego and back, simply rent a > > > gasoline one for that particular need. Daily use > rental cars don't cost much and are > > > quickly accomplished when needed. You can even > leave your electric one in the parking > > > space you vacated at the rental agency until you > get back. > > > > > > This would solve a lot of problems with the long > runs and battery exchange stations > > > among others that might come up but keep the > electric vehicle doing 75% of the total > > > need. > > > > > > I personally don't see a company putting big > money into exchange battery stations until > > > demand for the service is already present. > Remember, the hydrogen station is an > > > "Arnold" dream that has big money behind it, > (probably California tax money), and no > > > one will be crying if it fails and has to be > written off. > > > > > > Once again, the paramount issue toward getting > electric vehicles into production and > > > available to the public will be to satisfy > Government as to how and where my automatic > > > deposit is being handled and is it secure. > Otherwise, nothing is going to happen.. > > > > > > I really don't think this issue is that much of > a big deal but it will have to be a > > > first things first job that has to be done if we > want electric cars in America anytime > > > soon. > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately, there will be the one out there > that will only want an exchange battery > > > when it's time for replacement to save the cost > of the new battery. > > > .... > > > > > > That�s one and there are other issues. > > > > > > > > > Clip > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other > providers! > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > > > -- > QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Plug-in to your data > at www.qodbc.com > Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** > voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019 > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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--- Begin Message --------------------- Virus Warning Message (on pollux) Found virus WORM_BAGLE.AF in file Document.com The file is deleted. ---------------------------------------------------------* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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--- Begin Message ---Mike Hoskinson wrote: > > I wonder if the PFC-50 can be zapped by lightning? So far I have been > able to unlug when I see the storms coming, and I'm in no rush to put it > to the test. > > Mike Hoskinson > Edmonton > > P.S., I still haven't got the web site up; having way too much fun. Errr... When God calls personally, it's hard to not take some form of damage. Yea it can get hurt pretty badly. The filters and arrestors to pass 50 amps are huge and can be rather spendy. So we don't worry about it much. But Dad and Joe and I are doing some basic engineering on a 70Kw charger system, complete with a 75KVa isolation transformer. And at this level of close to 30K Bucks, we need to find out if we can arainge some form of snubbers and filters. It's one of those, for the cost is could save a really nasty service call. So if you folks can, treat a PFC charger like un surge protected computer gear. IF you can unplug it in a Lightnight storm. I have yet to get one back that has been "lit Up " from above. But there are a few that have high voltage damage, from less than clear sources. -- Rich Rudman Manzanita Micro www.manzanitamicro.com 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message --- If you look a few weeks back, Bill Dube had an excellent and descriptive post about the merits of a compliant mount for motor and transmission.
Seth On Jul 26, 2004, at 3:53 PM, Bill Dennis wrote:
Along that line, I have a follow-up question then. Both transmission mounts
and ICE mount are very flexible. It seems like the whole transmission/ICE
assemble could move around quite a lot during driving. Do I need to make a
mount for the far end of the electric motor that is equally as flexible?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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--- Begin Message ---Hi Mark and All, --- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have had a bypass contactor on my last 3 vehicles > without any problems, > controller is more efficient when bypassed, direct > battery connection. > Simply use the pot-box full on position and add a > microswitch to it so the > PWM is full on at that time (with the peddle fully > depressed). You want to > make sure that the controller isn't PWM'ing (full > on) when the bypass > contactor clicks in and out. The bypass contactor > helps also when the > controller blows open and a Mack truck is behind you > on the freeway. At > least you'll make it to the next exit. Or just switch the whole e-controller out of the circuit before the bypass engages. > > Also make sure the bottom (peddle release) > microswitch is connected to an > "engage" contactor, so it breaks all power to the > controller when your foot > is released (required for operational safety). That > way, in a panic > situation, your first reaction when the controller > gets stuck on is to > release the peddle and the car stops. > Mark www.infionline.net/~mhanson/ dc converters Good description, thanks. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 8:36 PM > Subject: Re: More power!!! Re: battery question > > > > At 1:56 PM -0700 7-25-04, jerry dycus wrote: > > > > > > If you are set on 48 vdc, use a bypass > > >contactor without/with field weakening. Start on > the e > > >controller then once started, switch the bypass > > >contactor then FW on for better acceleration > cheaply. > > >Maybe put the activating switches on the go pedal > so > > >it works automaticly. > > > Forklifts, EV's and trains have done this > > >reliably for over 120 yrs. > > > > Warning! > > If you do this with the controller in the circuit, > there is a very > > good chance that you will blow up the controller. > Especially with the > > AXE since it uses synchronous rectification to > increase efficiency. Thanks Otmar, I didn't know that about the AXE controller. You can alway use 2 contactors to take the e-controller completely out which is how I'd do it as you need 2 contactors and 1 manual disconnect anyway for safety on the bypass circuit! With another contactor and a resistor and you have an emergency 2 speed contactor controller or with field weakening gives you 4 speeds. She has everything to make a CC that would easily beat the pants off her e-controller in power output. And it's matched to the motor. Especially if she ups her voltage to 72vdc nom. Her e controller is hopelessly under powered now. It's not like she doesn't have a digital control now, either full on or off. Thanks, jerry dycus > > > > -- > > -Otmar- > > http://www.CafeElectric.com > > Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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--- Begin Message --- I wonder.
Is crimping copper connectors on battery cable considered good practrice by those in the know?
If so, is there any crimping method/tool considered as better at doing the job correctly?
Thanks for any help.
JCT
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--- Begin Message ---JCT wrote:
I wonder.I'd solder or crimp and then solder where the wire enters the lug. I wouldn't trust it if it was just crimped.
Is crimping copper connectors on battery cable considered good practrice by those in the know?
If so, is there any crimping method/tool considered as better at doing the job correctly?
Thanks for any help.
JCT
--
Martin Klingensmith
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--- Begin Message ---yes, as I said, zipcar does exactly this. Although I can hear the complaints from the taxi industry now.... www.zipcar.com Zipcar offers self-service cars on-demand 24/7 for rent by the hour or the day. Rates includes gas, insurance, maintenance and designated parking. Zipcar gives you instant access to a variety of great new cars â near work, transit and home. brad On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:20:57 -0700 (PDT), keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have always been partial to the developement of a > system that used a large fleet of mixed use vehicles > (some luxury cars, some sports, some SUVs, economy, > trucks, even EVs or NEVs) in public parking garages or > at park and rides. the vehicles would be fully fuled > and ready for use at all times
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--- Begin Message ---Yes but then you have a tail ;) Mike G.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
M.G. wrote:
5. A solenoid triggered by the ignition switch that ejects the cord from the EV. This has been suggested, but I don't recall anyone actually building one. It does sound kind of neat.
I like this one but what happens if you need a charge after you left the cord at home ? :)
Mike G.
Make it eject from the wall then, not from the EV :-)
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--- Begin Message --- I'm looking for the most effective combination of power and low weight for a "street rod" type EV. I'm looking for a brushed DC motor, and I'd like to do it with a single motor rather than having to have a linked motor design like the "Silver Bullet" and similar designs.
My goal is 150 hp minimum, and 200-250 hp ideal at the rear wheels. I'll be running SLA batteries of some kind.
I've heard about the 10" motors that Brian is using on his new drag compact. Would something like this be optimal, or is there a better choice for a single motor design?
Also, the conversion is replacing a V8 with a turbo 350 tranny. I assume that I'd be ditching the tranny to save weight. Is this a correct assumption?
I'm not looking to win any drag race records at Woodburn. I'm just looking to make something that exceeds the stock motor's performance specs, and makes a statement on the street with rubber burning at will.
I will not be using the excellent Zilla controller on this one, so there is no need for a dual motor setup. I'll be running a custom controller.
Range is not an issue, only performance. Short range is fine.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions.
-Ken Trough Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine http://visforvoltage.com 24 hour AIM - ktrough 24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
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--- Begin Message --- At 01:14 PM 26/07/04 -0700, you wrote:James Massey wrote:Hi All... > But it still has the capacity to take that 1 tonne ofweight. 480 volts of Orbitals, anyone?
Sure. 650V 350 kW dual Elfa: http://www.metricmind.com/images/elfa.jpg
-- Victor '91 ACRX - something different
That's an inverter, yes? and I assume there is a matching motor?
Hmm 700kW may even be enough for the Madman, at least for a week or so :^)
James.
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--- Begin Message ---Andre Blanchard wrote: > > How well do the PFC chargers deal with a generator as it is running out of > gas? I know my generator surges badly for 20 or 30 seconds before it > completely dies. > > Thanks, > Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis. > Off of 120 VAC it's not a real issue. off of 240 it could be a killer as the voltage surges way over 240 Vac. So... make sure your 240 is solid and doesn't over shoot, or stay at 120. -- Rich Rudman Manzanita Micro www.manzanitamicro.com 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message ---Ken Trough wrote: > > I'm looking for the most effective combination of power and low weight > for a "street rod" type EV. I'm looking for a brushed DC motor, and I'd > like to do it with a single motor rather than having to have a linked > motor design like the "Silver Bullet" and similar designs. > > My goal is 150 hp minimum, and 200-250 hp ideal at the rear wheels. I'll > be running SLA batteries of some kind. > > I've heard about the 10" motors that Brian is using on his new drag > compact. Would something like this be optimal, or is there a better > choice for a single motor design? > > Also, the conversion is replacing a V8 with a turbo 350 tranny. I assume > that I'd be ditching the tranny to save weight. Is this a correct > assumption? > > I'm not looking to win any drag race records at Woodburn. I'm just > looking to make something that exceeds the stock motor's performance > specs, and makes a statement on the street with rubber burning at will. > > I will not be using the excellent Zilla controller on this one, so there > is no need for a dual motor setup. I'll be running a custom controller. > > Range is not an issue, only performance. Short range is fine. > > Thanks for your comments and suggestions. > > -Ken Trough > Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine > http://visforvoltage.com > 24 hour AIM - ktrough > 24 hour message center - 866-872-8901 Single motor? Get a 9 incher or call Warp and get thier biggest. Single motor, also keep the tranny. The dual motor trick works nice since the Series parallel hands you a first and 4th gear selection all in one. Custom controller Ken, Come on.... don't go there unless there is real proof and success. A GE 11.7 incher is just about the best, But finding a good starting candidate can be a very long and hard learning curve. Don't do it like Silver bullet, do it like the Maniac Mazada, two motors nose to tail. 250 Hp on a single shaft is hand buildt and Dyno tested area. I doubt that you can get there without some starts and fails. 100 Hp on two motors is off the shelf designs. Anybody can Dump the power into the motors, getting it to the ground, and not vaporizing stuff is the hard part. Even GP has only put down 230 or so Hp. So 250 Hp electric IS Woodburn record setting effort levels. The best and cleanest street burner was a single GE 10.7 incher in a RX-7 with the TH400 fully functional SANs the torque converter. It took a 2000 amp T-Rex and 360 volts of hawkers. It ran high 14s. I ran it at low 15s in Denver 98. This Is Damons Crockett's Rexy7. By luck Rod sold him a 134 volt interpoled motor. I have never seen one like it since. Good luck. Keep us informed. -- Rich Rudman Manzanita Micro www.manzanitamicro.com 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message ---James Massey wrote: > > At 01:14 PM 26/07/04 -0700, you wrote: > >James Massey wrote: > >>Hi All > >... > > > But it still has the capacity to take that 1 tonne of > >>weight. 480 volts of Orbitals, anyone? > > > >Sure. 650V 350 kW dual Elfa: http://www.metricmind.com/images/elfa.jpg > > > >-- > >Victor > >'91 ACRX - something different > > That's an inverter, yes? and I assume there is a matching motor? > > Hmm 700kW may even be enough for the Madman, at least for a week or so :^) > > James. I would KILL for 700 Kw in just about anything!! GP can only muster 700 Hp on paper... a Far cry from 700Kw. -- Rich Rudman Manzanita Micro www.manzanitamicro.com 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message ---It takes a few milliseconds to push the logic power supply input capacitors above 400 volts. Shorter and smaller pulses have no effect. 240 VAC has a 340 volt peak voltage leaving only 60 volts of headroom until damage occurs. We have discussed a method of increasing the headroom but have questioned whether a customer would be willing to pay another $100 for that protection. We could offer it as an option. Most transient damage has occurred while operating from 60 Hz gensets rather than from grid power. Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Efficiency of range extender DC vs AC Generator > Andre Blanchard wrote: > > > > How well do the PFC chargers deal with a generator as it is running out of > > gas? I know my generator surges badly for 20 or 30 seconds before it > > completely dies. > > > > Thanks, > > Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis. > > > > Off of 120 VAC it's not a real issue. > off of 240 it could be a killer as the voltage surges way over 240 Vac. > > So... make sure your 240 is solid and doesn't over shoot, or stay at > 120. > > -- > Rich Rudman > Manzanita Micro > www.manzanitamicro.com > 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266 >
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--- Begin Message ---If you want the biggest and baddest DC motor, you should go with the Netgain 13" motor which you can go series/parallel with on a single motor. HP will be a function of voltage and amperage. Torque will be pretty damn impressive... It's the setup I will be using for my midget. -Mark -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Mon Jul 26 19:52:03 2004 Subject: BIG motors for conversion? I'm looking for the most effective combination of power and low weight for a "street rod" type EV. I'm looking for a brushed DC motor, and I'd like to do it with a single motor rather than having to have a linked motor design like the "Silver Bullet" and similar designs. My goal is 150 hp minimum, and 200-250 hp ideal at the rear wheels. I'll be running SLA batteries of some kind. I've heard about the 10" motors that Brian is using on his new drag compact. Would something like this be optimal, or is there a better choice for a single motor design? Also, the conversion is replacing a V8 with a turbo 350 tranny. I assume that I'd be ditching the tranny to save weight. Is this a correct assumption? I'm not looking to win any drag race records at Woodburn. I'm just looking to make something that exceeds the stock motor's performance specs, and makes a statement on the street with rubber burning at will. I will not be using the excellent Zilla controller on this one, so there is no need for a dual motor setup. I'll be running a custom controller. Range is not an issue, only performance. Short range is fine. Thanks for your comments and suggestions. -Ken Trough Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine http://visforvoltage.com 24 hour AIM - ktrough 24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
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--- Begin Message ---Bill Dennis wrote: > If you wanted to create a direct drive using an existing > transmission, could you arrange the electric motor's shaft > inside the bell housing so that instead of being co-axial > with the transmission's input shaft, the shafts were side > by side (parallel axes), with gears connecting them? Yes, you could do this. It could be gears, or a belt or a chain for that matter. The main challenge is that the transmission would require a bearing on its input shaft that could support the side load of this gear, belt, or chain. (Most motors have such a bearing already; most transmission do not -- they depend on the engine crankshaft bearings). > Would efficiency be adversely affected this way? There would be a small loss of efficiency. Straight gears would be 98% or so efficient; helical gears or belts or chains somewhat lower. > Would the gears function properly with there being no fluid in > the bell housing? They work best when lubricated, of course. The lack of oil is a good reason to use a belt instead. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Hi, some City-El users here in germany use a gas powered version of the Honda to extent the range and it seems to work fine. They run it during driving only. You get not only the power from the Honda, you ger also more energy from the battery because Peukert doesn't hit so hard. So using a onboard generator converts your electric car to a serial hybrid car. Emil
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--- Begin Message ---On 26 Jul 2004 at 14:20, keith vansickle wrote: > I have always been partial to the developement of a > system that used a large fleet of mixed use vehicles > (some luxury cars, some sports, some SUVs, economy, > trucks, even EVs or NEVs) in public parking garages or > at park and rides. See http://www.stncar.com/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA 1991 Solectria Force 144vac 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Their talk was the talk of sordid buccaneers: it was reckless without hardihood, greedy without audacity, and cruel without courage; there was not an atom of foresight ... in the whole batch of them, and they did not seem aware these things are wanted for the work of the world. -- Joseph Conrad, "Heart of Darkness" = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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--- Begin Message ---Toronto has Auto Share www.autoshare.com and Dash Car www.dashcar.com > yes, as I said, zipcar does exactly this. Although I can hear the > complaints from the taxi industry now.... > > www.zipcar.com > > Zipcar offers self-service cars on-demand 24/7 for rent by the hour or > the day. Rates includes gas, insurance, maintenance and designated > parking. Zipcar gives you instant access to a variety of great new > cars — near work, transit and home. > > brad >
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--- Begin Message ---How much extention do they get, Emil? Can it run indefinately, or are you just adding time/range? Mike On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 06:20:23 +0200, Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > some City-El users here in germany use a gas powered version of the > Honda to extent the range and it seems to work fine. They run it during > driving only. You get not only the power from the Honda, you ger also > more energy from the battery because Peukert doesn't hit so hard. > > So using a onboard generator converts your electric car to a serial > hybrid car. > > Emil > >
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--- Begin Message ---On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 23:04:06 -0600, Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How much extention do they get, Emil? Can it run indefinately, or are > you just adding time/range? Some people with the 1000 W Honda get about twice the range, depending on driving habit and road even more. I read from one with the 2000 W Honda that he can run as long as the fuel tank is full. The fuel use is about 1 l/h. The typical speed of the City-El is about 30 mph. Emil
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--- Begin Message --------------------- Virus Warning Message (on pollux) Found virus WORM_BAGLE.Z in file Smoke.cpl The file is deleted. ---------------------------------------------------------* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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--- Begin Message ---I've met this guy. Mr Partanen. He's been around for a while. I see it as a troll but that's my opinion. I would like to talk with him more profoundly about this invention. Does it sound too good to be true ? To me it does. He has been in the meetings of the EVAF.org . t: Jukka ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon "Sheer" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:17 AM Subject: Re: Nanoscale Electrochemistry Aluminium Batteries > Vote: Real or investor troll? > > > The new, patented technology based on nanoscale electrochemistry will > allow > > production of rechargeable aluminium batteries providing up to 20 times > more > > capacity than current batteries. The materials are environmentally safe > and > > fully recycleable. > > > > Electric car of General Motors, EV 1 uses 736kg batteries giving max. > range > > 145 km without recharge. A battery of 60 kg made with Europositron > > technology allows EV 1 max. range 870 km without recharge. >
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--- Begin Message ---The reason most states treat a bicycle as a vehicle is the speed potential. . Riding a bike on the sidewalk with any speed is dangerous. People comming out of doors on the street are the main problems. I ride at a steady 17 mph on level ground. Maybe faster with a tail wind. My road bike is even faster. I can keep up with most city traffic or better. It would be suicide for me to ride on the sidewalk. Kids however go a lot slower and many times have one speed bikes. I however don't let my kids ride on the sidewalks at all. The sidewalks in my neighbor hood are 4 feet wide. Lawrence Rhodes.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Paulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 1:24 PM Subject: Re: Public EV fleets was Re: Plea from Phoenix Motorcars > Lee Hart wrote: > > Oh, come on now. Kids have been riding bikes on the sidewalk forever. It > > would be a death sentence to require them to ride in the street. It is > > the exception rather than the rule to find bikes prohibited from a > > sidewalk. > > It seems that the letter of the law varies from state to state, but it > isn't really enforced anywhere unless there are posted signs. For > example, in Minnesota it is legal to bike on sidewalks except in > business districts. Next door in North Dakota it is illegal to bike on > sidewalks anywhere for adults but it is ok for children. > > The main reason for the no-sidewalk laws is that there are a lot of > incidents of byciclists being hit by cars coming out of alleys. I bike > to work every day and I've had several close calls myself. It is > statistically safer for adults to ride on the road and children to ride > on sidewalks. Unfortunately, many roads are very hostile environments > to ride on so the blanket anti-sidewalk laws don't make much sense; law > enforcement seems to understand this and looks the other way. > > Andrew >
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--- Begin Message -------- Original Message ----- From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 1:59 PM Subject: Re: 2 motors/no diff > Kris Kirby wrote: > > > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Robert MacDowell wrote: > > > The traditional solution has been limited-slip differentials. > > > That seems workable for EV's, I don't see where they scavenge > > > power except during turns. > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of one motor per wheel. > > > But I worry that it might be a bit much to take on for a > > > one-off, especially working out the engineering details of > > > it not doing something weird/undesirable at inopportune > > > moments. > > > > You'd need to engineer an ABS/Traction Control System to limit one wheel > > from spinning and then you only have half the tractive power on the other > > side. I'd imagine that one wheel slipping could allow a situation to exist > > whereby a motor comes flying apart. > > > > > Bull Hucky!!! I second that! One of my Ground up EV's thousands of years, ago, in Taiwan, I had to GE Golf Cart motors, one driving each rear wheel. Car would be considered a NEV today, top speed about 30 which was plenty in city traffic. In Taiwan, then, they had no Freeways, local traffic, two laners between cities, but darn good train service for longrer trips, so it wasnt bad to getabout there. about 6 bux US for a roomette on the overnite train, Taipei Kaoshung, about 250 miles. Whythehell would ya drive? 'Cept to sightsee. Back to the story. We invisioned battery swap stations in the major cities, built the car so the battery box could slide out the side of the chassis, it sorta resembled a distant cousen of the archbar style freight car truck, fabricated up of tube and channel stock. Was using 8D 12 volt batteries, common in buses and trux, there and here.3 would give me respectable range, @36v but 6 lasted longer. Ran a basic series parallel control system, crude, but effective. The motors 'Diffed" beautifully, but I wasnt dealing with Waylandian amounts of torque, if you tried, like flooring it with the inside wheel on a turn on sand you could get a little " Churp" The Parallel speed gave ya great traction in mud and slop. An old motorman trick in Trolley daze, slippery rail, was to get in Parallel, especially with a 4 motor car, as you would get great wheelspin in series, when ALL the power went to the spinning axle. Impressine, but not great to move people, or freight if it was a Lokie. Parallel, everybody, motor wise was getting a fair share of the power. Newer locos are in Parallel ALL the time, sillycon duz the speed control, nowadaze, as well as control wheelslip, the bain of RR stuff since the dawn of time. One thing that ALL trains have in common from the Acela train sets to the Engines that Won the West 150 years ago, is sanders, pipes leading to under the drive wheels, for traction. Of course when ya NEED it the damn sand boxes are empty anyhow, but the intentions were good, anyhow<g>! My two motors worth Bob
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