EV Digest 4130
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DIY Solder Pot
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Welding Aluminum
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 100 mile trip
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Regenerating a series wound motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: DIY Solder pot
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: DIY Solder pot
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV Calculator update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Battery Exchange
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Regenerating a series wound motor
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Regenerating a series wound motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Scooter Wars
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Datsun Minitruck Mania!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) More Rod Wilde Stuff
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Datsun Minitruck Mania!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Datsun Minitruck Mania!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) GVMR weights
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Question: Max efficiency charging with 3 phase alternator
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
>
> Now I want to tin the ends of the cables I made, my 74W soldering iron is
> too light, but the torch is too much and causes the ends to tarnish and
> oxidize. I have read about DIY solder pots.
>
> My idea is to get a 4" diameter pipe 2" long, weld it to a 1/2" slab of
> steel and put it on a portable hotplate. Then I can get bar solder (50/50?)
> from the plumbing shop. Will this work?
>
> Any tips on how to properly tin the ends? Flux etc.
Danger! Many metals will *disolve* in molten solder! Don't just pick any
old steel and assume it will hold molten solder for a long time! You
don't want to even *think* about the disaster of spilling a pot of
molten metal!
Why not just buy a new/used solder pot? I bought one from Dexis
(www.dexis.com) for about $100.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great - thanks Lee will do.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: February 26, 2005 1:05 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
Don Cameron wrote:
>
> Here is what I have come up with:
> http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/BatteryStraps.JPG
>
> Since I cannot find any connectors commercially available (locally
> anyways) with 1/4" stud, I used Victor's suggestion of braided cable
> with crimped copper pipe on either end. The braid goes through the
> entire pipe, so when they are bolted to the batteries this will ensure
> a good solid connection, but still allow flex.
Don, since you are making your own interconnects from unusual materials, and
haven't done any resistance calculations, you need to *measure* the actual
resistance of your interconnects. It doesn't matter how cheap they were, or
how easy to make, or how nice they look. What matters is their performance!
Connect a couple batteries in series with one. Connect a charger or load to
charge or discharge the two batteries in series at some known current.
Measure the voltage drop from battery post-to-post. Calculate the resistance
with Ohm's law; Ohms = Volts / Amps.
If you expect to draw 100s of amps, the resistance had better be less than
0.01 ohm. At 100 amps, a 0.01 ohm connection produces P = I^2 x R =
100^2 x 0.01 = 100 watts of heat! If you expect to hit 1000 amps, your
connection resistance had better be under 0.0001 ohms!
For reference, a "normal" inter-battery jumper made with 6" of #00 cable and
copper terminals crimped on each end, connected to automotive type battery
posts will have a resistance around 0.002 ohms.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another reason for rivots is the "stressed skin construction" of some
(most?) aircraft you just can't get the torch in there. :-) and lots of
heat sensitive components would be too close to the welding.
Alum has very good heat conduction, and very good eletrical conduction,
this makes it "fun" to weld.
First you must preheat the workpiece so the concentration of heat
during welding is less, ( now,remember, don't rest your hand on it)
Then turn up the amps *3 from your typical steel settings and switch
over to AC, Turn up the argon too
Then try to see the darn puddle !
Finally, sent it out for heat treat.
Now For you insight owners, Are the aluminum extrusions welded to the
lugs?
http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclopedia/enaluminum.html
tough little car!
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee wrote:
>>Are you sure your Tacoma weighs only 2775 lbs? Could the double cab
version weigh over 1000 lbs more?<<
The double cab is a 4 door pickup. The book lists (GVWR minus listed payload
capacity for each model) a 4wd, double cab, V-6 and automatic Tacoma's
weight as 3785lbs, 90lbs less than the given weight (dealer installed bed
liner, skid plate, full tank of gas... I could see that). That is as heavy
as the Tacoma gets
Toyota lists the extended cab as 50lbs heavier than the standard cab and the
double cab as 160lbs heavier than the extended cab (but double cab Tacomas
also have a shorter bed.) "Pre-runner" adds 335lbs (and raises GVWR by
850lbs), 4dw adds another 225lbs, and the "off road" package another 45lbs.
Motor and transmission choice also affects weight (175lbs for the V-6, 30lbs
for the automatic.)
The Tacoma is redsigned for 2005. Now its a larger Pickup like the rest of
the "compact" trucks. That is why I bought a 2004. I think by carefully
choosing the Tacoma one started with a fairly good range EV could be built
(not mine - its only got 9000 mile on it :-)
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
djsharpe wrote:
> I am assuming any proposal would add inductance & resistance to
> replace the motor armature during the regenerating phase.
No; this is not (normally) necessary.
A PWM controller is more properly called a "buck converter". It requires
4 parts to function efficiently; 1 switch, 1 diode, 1 capacitor, and 1
inductor. The switch is usually a transistor; bipolar, MOSFET, or IGBT.
The diode is usually silicon or schottky. They sometimes "cheat" on the
capacitor and use the battery to provide some or all of the capacitance.
They also "cheat" on the inductor and use the motor's inherent
inductance when possible. Sometimes multiple devices are used in
parallel to save money.
A series motor has a lot of inductance, mainly provided by the field.
So, a separate inductor is rarely used with series motors. You *will*
sometime see separate inductors with PM or shunt motors to get them to
work right.
Any normal controller would have no trouble driving just the field of a
series motor. The only problem would be if you have a *really* large
series motor (like an Advanced DC 9") and a really small controller
(like a Curtis 1221B). This motor is known to have insufficient
inductance for this controller even wired normally (field and armature
in series), so using the 1221B to drive just the ADC 9" field would make
a bad situation worse.
Ok; so you can drive just the field. What happens next?
You are running the series motor as a "separately excited" motor. This
means a) Varmature = K x Speed x Ifield (where K is a constant for the
given motor). So yes; you could use the controller to run enough field
current so the armature voltage is greater than the pack voltage at any
given rpm.
But, there are problems. Series motors assume that field current =
armature current. The magnetic fields produced by the armature and field
windings "warp" each other. When the current in both are the same, each
is strong enough to "fight off" the other. But if you weaken the field,
the armature current will "warp" the field. The apparent position of the
field moves from its real position. This shifts the optimum position of
the brushes for minimum arcing. Thus, reducing the field current
compared to the armature current increases arcing.
So, this scheme has a problem at high motor rpm. The equation requires
low field current to get Varmature = Vpack. But then you can only allow
low armature current; thus low regen current.
As the vehicle slows down, you need to increase Ifield to increase
Varmature so it still matches Vpack. So, you can have more armature
current, i.e. more regen current. In other words, you get the least
regen at the highest speed, and the most at low speeds -- backwards of
what you normally want.
The standard method to avoid this situation is to keep the field and
armature in series, and rewire the PWM controller as a "boost
converter". A boost converter momentarily shorts the motor; this causes
a rapid buildup of current (but not voltage). Then it connects the motor
to the battery. A pulse of current flows into the battery. Then the
motor is shorted, and the process repeats. Because of field inductance,
the actual current ramps up 10-20% when the motor is shorted, and back
down 10-20% when connected to the battery.
The problem with this setup is that the motor armature is operating at
high current and low voltage during regen. This is a much less efficient
operating point for series motors. Also, you need to reverse the field
to get this kind of generator action. This requires a reversing
contactor. Finally, the brush position for minimal arcing changes
between forward and reverse; thus the brushes are in the WRONG position
during regen; when current is high and arcing is the worst.
The fix for *this* problem is to add compensating windings to the motor.
These are typically interpoles and/or pole face windings; smaller field
windings connected in series with the armature and positioned so they
counteract the effect of the armature current on the field. The drawback
of these windings is that they add cost and take up space (the motor
gets bigger, heavier, and costs more).
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First of all check e-bay, this is a nice one, but simpler(cheaper ones)
also show up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57012&item=3876713725&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
if you are going the pipe method I would recommend a mica barrel heater
as used in a plastic molding machine
Suppliers like IMS, PPE stock them in Ca and back east and they are
inexpensive.
http://www.imscompany.com/ //great there site is down
http://www.budgetmolders.com/ this is a division of PPE
http://www.budgetmolders.com/PDF03/022-037.pdf shows 4" ID by 2" for
$8.70 or 3" for 13.90 240V 1000W
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 2/25/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
300W 110v $64.95
www.jameco.com
Solder pot found on line
Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
First of all check e-bay, this is a nice one, but simpler(cheaper ones)
also show up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57012&item=3876713725&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
if you are going the pipe method I would recommend a mica barrel heater
as used in a plastic molding machine
Suppliers like IMS, PPE stock them in Ca and back east and they are
inexpensive.
http://www.imscompany.com/ //great there site is down
http://www.budgetmolders.com/ this is a division of PPE
http://www.budgetmolders.com/PDF03/022-037.pdf shows 4" ID by 2" for
$8.70 or 3" for 13.90 240V 1000W
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 2/25/2005
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< Corrections for the T-875 and T-890 batteries:
They are both only 10.875" in height
Their 20-hour rate is 170ah for the T-875 and 190ah for the T-890
(according to the numbers currently on Trojan's website). >>
Done!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peter
comments inserted
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The main problem with battery exchange in the past
> was trying to figure out a simple, safe, and
> effective way to swap out a 1/2 ton
>(or more) of batteries.
Errr... the PBA batts in my scoot weight maybe 20 pounds? Enough to
keep a middle aged accountant up to rush hour speeds over urban
distances anyway.
> Service stations could have a simple conveyer system
> that attaches to the hatch and rolls out the old
> modules and then (after swiping a credit/debit
> card) feeds in a fresh set of charged modules.
I'd add a chip in the bat packs that tracks discharge/recharge activity
and calculates an "abuse factor"... then adjust billing to credit card
accordingly.
> Total time including credit authorization, less than a minute. Let's
> see a gasoline powered car top that.
> Batteries get charged during off peak hours and the modules could be
> tested for capacity with the stinkers sidelined for rebuilding.
Agree! It'd work as a public transit service.
lOCk
on the hard and scootin'by the Bay
Toronto Harbour
______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee
Thank you for your informed views on series motors. It seems to me that
if you were using a straight shunt wound dc motor (without interpoles or
any other windings) then you have a situation similar to the series
motor regenerating when forced into it by overexcitation or higher revs
etc. Are we then saying that we can't let the dc motor generate either
because of brush sparking? There may be solutions here anyway such as
brush composition. I have also seen motors where the brush carrier can
be moved to another position. This could be done using small actuators.
Braking is only going to be a short time thing cw motoring.
Can the standard buck converters work as boost converters too? My motor
is a 9 incher & a DCP-1200 controller.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Sunday, 27 February 2005 9:10 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Regenerating a series wound motor
djsharpe wrote:
> I am assuming any proposal would add inductance & resistance to
> replace the motor armature during the regenerating phase.
No; this is not (normally) necessary.
A PWM controller is more properly called a "buck converter". It requires
4 parts to function efficiently; 1 switch, 1 diode, 1 capacitor, and 1
inductor. The switch is usually a transistor; bipolar, MOSFET, or IGBT.
The diode is usually silicon or schottky. They sometimes "cheat" on the
capacitor and use the battery to provide some or all of the capacitance.
They also "cheat" on the inductor and use the motor's inherent
inductance when possible. Sometimes multiple devices are used in
parallel to save money.
A series motor has a lot of inductance, mainly provided by the field.
So, a separate inductor is rarely used with series motors. You *will*
sometime see separate inductors with PM or shunt motors to get them to
work right.
Any normal controller would have no trouble driving just the field of a
series motor. The only problem would be if you have a *really* large
series motor (like an Advanced DC 9") and a really small controller
(like a Curtis 1221B). This motor is known to have insufficient
inductance for this controller even wired normally (field and armature
in series), so using the 1221B to drive just the ADC 9" field would make
a bad situation worse.
Ok; so you can drive just the field. What happens next?
You are running the series motor as a "separately excited" motor. This
means a) Varmature = K x Speed x Ifield (where K is a constant for the
given motor). So yes; you could use the controller to run enough field
current so the armature voltage is greater than the pack voltage at any
given rpm.
But, there are problems. Series motors assume that field current =
armature current. The magnetic fields produced by the armature and field
windings "warp" each other. When the current in both are the same, each
is strong enough to "fight off" the other. But if you weaken the field,
the armature current will "warp" the field. The apparent position of the
field moves from its real position. This shifts the optimum position of
the brushes for minimum arcing. Thus, reducing the field current
compared to the armature current increases arcing.
So, this scheme has a problem at high motor rpm. The equation requires
low field current to get Varmature = Vpack. But then you can only allow
low armature current; thus low regen current.
As the vehicle slows down, you need to increase Ifield to increase
Varmature so it still matches Vpack. So, you can have more armature
current, i.e. more regen current. In other words, you get the least
regen at the highest speed, and the most at low speeds -- backwards of
what you normally want.
The standard method to avoid this situation is to keep the field and
armature in series, and rewire the PWM controller as a "boost
converter". A boost converter momentarily shorts the motor; this causes
a rapid buildup of current (but not voltage). Then it connects the motor
to the battery. A pulse of current flows into the battery. Then the
motor is shorted, and the process repeats. Because of field inductance,
the actual current ramps up 10-20% when the motor is shorted, and back
down 10-20% when connected to the battery.
The problem with this setup is that the motor armature is operating at
high current and low voltage during regen. This is a much less efficient
operating point for series motors. Also, you need to reverse the field
to get this kind of generator action. This requires a reversing
contactor. Finally, the brush position for minimal arcing changes
between forward and reverse; thus the brushes are in the WRONG position
during regen; when current is high and arcing is the worst.
The fix for *this* problem is to add compensating windings to the motor.
These are typically interpoles and/or pole face windings; smaller field
windings connected in series with the armature and positioned so they
counteract the effect of the armature current on the field. The drawback
of these windings is that they add cost and take up space (the motor
gets bigger, heavier, and costs more).
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
djsharpe wrote:
> Thank you for your informed views on series motors. It seems to me
> that if you were using a straight shunt wound dc motor (without
> interpoles or any other windings) then you have a situation similar
> to the series motor
Correct. People *have* had this problem with regen in shunt motors, too.
However, most shunt motors are intended to be used as generators, where
armature current is unrelated to field current. Thus they had to take
whatever steps were necessary so the brushes survive (interpoles,
adjustable brush rigging, etc.)
> Are we then saying that we can't let the dc motor generate either
> because of brush sparking?
No; certainly not. All we're saying is that if you weaken the field but
keep the armature current high, the armature's magnetic field warps the
field winding's magnetic. This increases brush arcing.
You can avoid the problem by staying under 30 votls (where arcing is
rarely a problem), or adding compensating windings to warp the field
back where it belongs, or physically move the brushes to the new
position needed for minimum arcing. Or, use a PM motor, whose field is
*always* strong and thus not easily warped by the armature.
> There may be solutions here anyway such as brush composition.
Possible, but this doesn't really solve the problem. When the brushes
are in the *right* position, there is essentially zero volts between the
two commutator bars that the brush moves across (and shorts). No
voltage, no arcing. Move the brush to the *wrong* position, and there
*is* voltage between the two commutator bars as the brush crosses them.
This is what produces the arcing.
> Can the standard buck converters work as boost converters too?
It's the same basic parts (transistor, diode, capacitor, inductor), but
re-arranged. Since you need a contactor to reverse the field connections
anyway to use a series motor as a series generator, this re-arranging is
usually done with contactors.
Naturally, the control logic also has to change to properly control
regen.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Myself and my friend Jordan have been having trouble with the local
authorities pulling over our electric board scooters and telling us they
are illegal to be on the road. In 2003 our state legislature passed Senate
Bill 5450 legalizing neighborhood electric vehicles and motorized foot
scooters. There are very few of the scooters here in Port Townsend and it
appears that the state did not do a good job of educating the state and
local police. Well I am very happy to say that the scooter wars are over. I
am enclosing a letter you may enjoy reading as you probably will never see
another one like this from a chief of police. Not only is our chief very
intelligent and creative, she is also gorgeous. Now the next step is to get
her to endorse changing the definition of motorzed foot scooters to allow
up to 20 inch wheels. This will take away the gray area of eGo electric
scooters and make them legal within our city limits.
For your viewing pleasure:
Date: Wednesday 23 February 2005 16:49
From: "Kristen Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jordan Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Jordan,
I've been a bit swamped but haven't forgotten you. From the officers I've
spoken to since we've started this dialogue, the manner in which you ride
your scooter sounds legal and correct - so unless I'm missing something
here, we do owe you a very sincere apology. Trust me, there is no hidden
agenda here. I hope you can forgive the misinterpretation on our part.
I am sorry for the inconvenience and frustration this has caused you. I
still intend to include you in the ongoing dialogue with Roderick as we
continue to try to find ways to make this work.
Kristen
And the score is...
Crazed Biker Trash -one-
Overzealous Cops -zero- :^D
Congratulations Roderick!
Next up for your entertainment...
The Crazed Biker Trash will be dating the Port Townsend Chief of Police.
:^D
Whadda ya think Rod? Is she single?
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
jerry dycus wrote:
> I like this idea using as Lee said an older,
> small truck frame from the 70's Datsun, Luv's, ect
> when some trucks really were small but still carried
> weight well , better in fact than todays so called
> compact trucks do.
Ah yes, I've written many times in the past about my fondness for the early
Datsun
minitrucks. The '66 Datsun 520 was the one that started what used to be
referred to as
'the minitruck revolution'. This was back when small Japanese pickups were
actually small,
but oh so tough! My '66 is rated at one ton hauling capacity! What was this
revolution? It
was all about young guys in their teens and very early twenties, buying and
falling in
love with these tough, playful, but at the same time, serious machines. They
soon
discovered the little trucks could haul massive amounts of weight and that they
were
durable enough for daily construction site or landscaping work. Off work,
washed up, waxed
up, lowered a tad, and fitted with bigger chrome rims or mags and Radial TA
white lettered
fat meats, and perhaps with a set of headers and an exhaust system, they turned
into flat
cornering 2nd gear tire squealing, fun rides...thus, the minitruck revolution.
Guys
thought of their minitrucks as their best friend.
It’s really too bad, that in the late seventies and on into the eighties, the
minitrucks
morphed into midsized, well....simply pickups. Today, the Tacomas, the Rangers,
the
Chevy S10s, and the Frontiers aren’t anything close to the minitrucks of
yesteryear. Oh,
they are very nice trucks, with more room, more power, more creature comfort,
etc. The
Tacoma now sports a 240 hp V6, and the Frontier has a staggering 265 hp from
its V6, but
as large as they’ve become, even with this much power, they totally lack that
kick in the
ass fun that only the small, light, and nimble minitrucks delivered. It just
might be time
to reintroduce the minitruck again. Dealers could then offer a compact and fun
minitruck
for first time, younger buyers, the midsize trucks, and the full size line.
Right now, in
my opinion, there’s a huge hole that needs to be filled. Imagine the same size
minitrucks,
only with modern four bangers that crank out 165-200 hp! Maybe there’s a place
for me in
marketing :-)
Paul G. wrote:
> I'm confused Lee. It sounds more like you are describing a new
> Pickup here. Aren't the old Datsuns a lot lighter? My '04 Tacoma
> (single cab, 5-speed) weighs 2775 lbs. and has a GVWR of 4250 lbs.
> (1475 lbs. load capacity.)
Lee Hart wrote:
> Well, I'm going by memory on my old Datsun -- I could be wrong. John
> Wayland still has one; John do you have any numbers?
Sure Lee, Happy to help! From my original, mint condition, factory brochure
that matches
my '66 Datsun L-520 minitruck:
The early Datsun minitrucks, model L-520, 66-67, weighed exactly 2216 lbs., and
could
pretty much haul their own weight. The brochure puts it in print....2000 lb.
payload!! And
right out of my '71 model year Datsun brochure...the '71 model PL-520 minitruck
weighed
exactly 2116 lbs. The PL-520 model replaced the shorter-nosed smaller engined
L-520 in
'68, and was made from '68 - '72. The first year is unique, in that the early
'68 had the
new bodywork, but between the longer fenders and under the longer hood, it
still had the
1300cc pushrod motor. The late '68 had the new OHC 1600cc engine, up from the
1300's 67
hp, to 96 hp. The late '68 also had the 4:38 axle instead of the L-520's super
low 4:88
axle. Other than the new fenders and new hood, from the windshield back, the
cab, doors,
and bed look identical between the L-520 and the PL-520. If you have a '66 or
'67 (the '67
has a different grill with quad 5 inch round headlights, where the '66 has dual
7 inch
rounds) truck, but need a door or a bed, these parts from the '68 - '72 trucks,
will bolt
right on...cool. A side note...those who want to see what the '67 looks like,
can check
out my old 'Baby Blue' now owned by friend John Tuss, at the EV Photo Album. The
redesigned ‘74-’78 Datsun PL-620 pickup, like Lee Hart’s model, began to grow
in weight.
The ‘73 had the same 1600cc engine as did the Pl-520s, but in ‘74 as new
pollution laws
took effect, like all the other manufacturers were doing, Datsun began to
increase engine
displacement in order to try to keep power from falling, thus the ‘74 got an
1800cc, then
the 75-78 had the new L20B 2000cc engine. Near the end, the PL-620 weighed just
shy of
2600 lbs. During the ‘73-78 run, as consumers got wimpier and they complained
more and
more about the unloaded miniturck’s rough ride, Datsun softened up the
suspension to where
the little pickups could only haul 1500 lbs. or so.
Here’s a couple of 'fun' direct quote performance benchmarks from the '66
brochure that
will make many laugh:
'Datsun's big new engine combines rugged power with economy' ....Big engine? It
had a tiny
1300cc engine and a whopping 67 hp :-)
'New 250 watt alternator'...I love this one, 250 watts? That’s about 20 amps,
max! A 50
amp alternator is considered on the small side. Today's compact cars have 1400
watt
alternators at around 100-110 amps output.
The cool thing in the early seventies, was getting a Datsun minitruck, lowering
it,
slapping on big wheels and fat tires, then hopping up that marvelous Datsun OHC
1600cc
engine to the tune of 150-160 horses...wow, what a fun ride that was! Nissan
even started
to turn out brochures with pictures of tricked out minitrucks, calling them
sports car
with huge trunks.
While I'm on the subject, Purple Phaze is alive and well. Finally, after a 10
year
gestation period, my minitruck project is on full boil again. A few days ago, I
talked
with Jim Husted, the motor god who runs 'Hi Torque Electric', his DC motor
rebuilding shop
in Redmond, Oregon. We made firm plans about the minitruck drag racer project.
His
business neighbor in the same group of buildings, Dan, does aircraft composite
work, and
he's on board to help with this, too. Next weekend, we're hauling the Datsun on
a trailer
to Redmond, where Dan will begin to custom create a super light weight
composite bed to
replace the super heavy all steel bed. The new bed will look like the original,
minus the
goofy farm implement type welded steel rope hooks that adorn the perimeter of
the stock
bed, and it will be hundreds of lbs. lighter. In the same trip, White Zombie's
motors are
also being hauled to Jim's shop, where the shafts will be pressed out, and
custom new
splined shafts and other new parts will be made.
Because of the extreme body mods, Lexan windows, the drive motor reoriented in
the back
instead of under the hood, and with the use of race-only slicks and or wrinkle
walls,
Purple Phaze will be racing in the non-street legal MC/D class. With a 156V
pack of
Orbitals, Blue Meanie's 1200 amp Raptor, and a controller bypass, this will be
a high
current lower voltage type drag machine. The monster hotrodded 13" motor will
have
motorized variable brush timing and will be mounted in the belly of the truck
with a short
stubby driveshaft into a Ford nine inch rear end setup. Fat drag slicks will be
stuffed
under the generous rear fenders. I'm thinking that fed with 2500 amps during an
early
bypass, it might make 1000 lbs. of torque, so the rear end ratio won't be super
low, but
instead, something on the order of 3:90 or maybe a 4:11.
The current 'MC/D' class record is 18.2 seconds at close to 72 mph. I'm
expecting Purple
Phaze to run 14's pretty easily, at the low 90 mph area...sorry William :-)
The 'SC/D'
class record is safe since this truck won't be street legal, but at a quick
14.779 @ 87.58
mph out of Father Time's hot Z Car, even though it’s street legal (all the more
impressive), I've just gotta beat that time and speed! How could I hold my head
up, if my
race only MC class minitruck can’t beat his street legal machine? Speaking of
Father Time,
his insane narrowed bug might race in the same class...hmmm, looks like a fun
racing season.
Tim Brehm has agreed to be the driver if I'm taking White Zombie on the same
night of
racing, but I suppose Rudman's going to want to run it a few nights, too. I'm
really
looking forward to the effect in the pits, when I tilt up the light weight bed
to reveal
this huge electric motor to all the gasser dudes....what fun!
The truck, though heavier stock than a stock 1200 at 2216 lbs. vs 1587 lbs.,
will actually
be lighter than White Zombie as it is in its present configuration with its
288V, 960 lb.
battery pack. The truck’s engine was heavier than a 1200’s engine, as was the
transmission
and flywheel, and there will be about 400 lbs. shaved off with the new
composite bed. The
glider pickup minus about 350 lbs. of engine and tranny, and with its super
light bed,
Lexan side and rear windows, and other weight shedding tricks, should weigh
about 1400
lbs. Additionally, the truck’s 13 Orbitals will weigh 440 lbs. less than the
Zombie’s 960
lb. pack. Even considering the 285 lb. monster motor (trimmed down from its
original 390
lbs.), in race ready form, I expect Purple Phase to weigh less than 2300 lbs.
There wont
be as much raw hp developed as from the Zombie’s twin 8’s at high voltage, but
a HUGE
amount of torque, variable brush timing, and lots of rear wheel drive drag
slick-augmented
hole-shot traction will be on hand. Maybe it will even crack the 13’s.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Roy LeMeur wrote:
> Roderick Wilde wrote:
> >Myself and my friend Jordan have been having trouble with the local
> >authorities pulling over our electric board scooters
>
> And the score is...
>
> Crazed Biker Trash -one-
>
> Overzealous Cops -zero- :^D\
Well, since Rod Wilde is the current topic, what better time to tell you about
the
surprise I had when servicing a very old Crown stand-up rider fork lift
yesterday. We're
talking about a dinosaur type lift truck, here. Anyway, I've got all the panels
removed
and am inspecting the twin drive motors, and as I'm saying to myself, "Wow,
these aren't
like any other brand DC motor I've seen in a Crown before...not Prestolite, not
GE, not
ADC, and not Crown...hmm." Then to my total entertainment, I find the
red-on-aluminum data
tag that reads 'Wilde Electric'. Though Crown's main factories have always been
in Ohio,
the rest of the data tag said Portland, Oregon. If Rod ever gets Maniac Mazda
back on the
track, he's just gotta find two of these motors, and put these data tags on his
red RX7's
twin DC motors!
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote [snip]
Great stuff on the Datsun minitrucks, John. You are a fountain of wisdom
on all things Datsun!
One little detail that might help anyone contemplating converting one
into a long-range EV, though. Where do you think one would FIND one in
good enough condition to convert? Anywhere up here in the Rust Belt,
they are long, long gone!
I think it would be fascinating to see what one of them could do as a
smaller version of Red Beastie.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI Folks,
Looking for some ideas on how to Maximize efficiency when using a 3-phase
PM alternator to charge batteries. 30V nominal battery voltage.
Simplest way would probably be to use a 6-way bridge. I know I'll loose
about 2% in the diodes, but how much will I loose do to power factor
issues?
Is it worth the extra cost to go with something like synchronous
rectification with power factor control? Is this the "Best" option
efficiency wise?
The second option also has the advantage that I could buck/boost voltage
as neccessary, plus being able to control the charing current without
having to vary the RPM.
Thanks in advance.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I tested 2 types of straps (tinned and just crimped) as well as the
flattened copper pipe, I ran each test 3 times. Two batteries were wired in
series using the strap/bar to be tested, with a 80Amp load. The current was
measured from a 500A shunt. The voltage drop was measured at the posts
where the strap/bar was connected.
Braided, tinned strap: 80Amp load, 1.9mV drop = 0.000024 ohms
Braided, crimped strap: 80Amp load, 2.2mV drop (this strap is 0.25" longer
than the other strap and copper bar) = 0.000028 ohms
Copper Bar 80 Amp load, 1.8mV drop = 0.000023 ohms
I estimate absolute max amperage draw of my 312V system will be 300Amps. I
will be using 6 of the straps in the packs (among other connectors). So
these 6 straps will draw, at worst, P = I^2 x R = 300^2 x (6*0.000028) =
15.1 Watts
Sounds not too bad...
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: February 26, 2005 1:05 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
Don Cameron wrote:
>
> Here is what I have come up with:
> http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/BatteryStraps.JPG
>
> Since I cannot find any connectors commercially available (locally
> anyways) with 1/4" stud, I used Victor's suggestion of braided cable
> with crimped copper pipe on either end. The braid goes through the
> entire pipe, so when they are bolted to the batteries this will ensure
> a good solid connection, but still allow flex.
Don, since you are making your own interconnects from unusual materials, and
haven't done any resistance calculations, you need to *measure* the actual
resistance of your interconnects. It doesn't matter how cheap they were, or
how easy to make, or how nice they look. What matters is their performance!
Connect a couple batteries in series with one. Connect a charger or load to
charge or discharge the two batteries in series at some known current.
Measure the voltage drop from battery post-to-post. Calculate the resistance
with Ohm's law; Ohms = Volts / Amps.
If you expect to draw 100s of amps, the resistance had better be less than
0.01 ohm. At 100 amps, a 0.01 ohm connection produces P = I^2 x R =
100^2 x 0.01 = 100 watts of heat! If you expect to hit 1000 amps, your
connection resistance had better be under 0.0001 ohms!
For reference, a "normal" inter-battery jumper made with 6" of #00 cable and
copper terminals crimped on each end, connected to automotive type battery
posts will have a resistance around 0.002 ohms.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I sure agree with you Lee, actually both of you are fountains....
And here I am in Tucson AZ, the boneyard for the AF, and lots o wrecking
yards...
just got to search them out.
Rush
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Datsun Minitruck Mania!
> John Wayland wrote [snip]
>
> Great stuff on the Datsun minitrucks, John. You are a fountain of wisdom
> on all things Datsun!
>
> One little detail that might help anyone contemplating converting one
> into a long-range EV, though. Where do you think one would FIND one in
> good enough condition to convert? Anywhere up here in the Rust Belt,
> they are long, long gone!
>
> I think it would be fascinating to see what one of them could do as a
> smaller version of Red Beastie.
> --
> Ring the bells that you can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 2/25/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where can I find old GVWR and curb weights of trucks? are there any online
sites that anybody knows of or is it just hit all the goggle sites or get a
blue book?
Want to know the weight of a 86 toyota, 5 speed, reg truck now and will want to
know others later.
Found this for Chevy's http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/3001/gvwr.html
Thanks
Rush
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 2/25/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:10 PM 26/02/05 -0700, you wrote:
HI Folks,
Looking for some ideas on how to Maximize efficiency when using a 3-phase
PM alternator to charge batteries. 30V nominal battery voltage.
Simplest way would probably be to use a 6-way bridge. I know I'll loose
about 2% in the diodes,
How many amps? at that voltage you can get schottky diodes up to several
hundred amps, maybe more efficient than all that goes with syncronous
rectification, and a heck of a lot easier.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Don Cameron wrote:
> I tested 2 types of straps (tinned and just crimped) as well as the
> flattened copper pipe, I ran each test 3 times. Two batteries were wired in
> series using the strap/bar to be tested, with a 80Amp load. The current was
> measured from a 500A shunt. The voltage drop was measured at the posts
> where the strap/bar was connected.
Just for additional comparison, I wish I had a short length of 2/0 or
4/0 with the ends crimped on that I could send to you to run that same
test on to see how it fairs to the 3 types you tested. I'd really
like to know the results.
Anyone have a spare interconnect you could send him if he would like
to do it for comparison reasons?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Here is what I have come up with:
> http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/BatteryStraps.JPG
>
> Since I cannot find any connectors commercially available (locally anyways)
> with 1/4" stud, I used Victor's suggestion of braided cable with crimped
> copper pipe on either end. The braid goes through the entire pipe, so when
> they are bolted to the batteries this will ensure a good solid connection,
> but still allow flex.
Will there be any corrosion issues using this method with NiCad batteries? Is
there an easy way to
coat/tin/protect the ends to prevent corrosion?
Also, do NiCads have issues with corroding the battery enclosure like lead
acids do from venting?
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
