Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:02:02 -0700
EV Digest 4761
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Bradley EV
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Asking for witnesses (was: Which Nedra class? )
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Bradley EV
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Siemens EV Motors
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: World Solar Challenge, Comments
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Which Nedra class?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Siemens EV Motors
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: World Solar Challenge, - Patents
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Asking for witnesses (was: Which Nedra class? )
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Siemens EV Motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Adjustable timing 8-inch motor - correction and photos
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: White Zombie Electrifies PIR ...12.424 @ 103.57 mph!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Bought Tires, got a funny coupon in the mail.
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Which Nedra class?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Battery pack circuit breakers
by Kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Battery pack circuit breakers
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 87 s10 bought last nite at Speedworld
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Shortened drive motor
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Which Nedra class?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Hi Chris and All, Chris Buresh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is anyone familiar with the Bradley kit cars made in MN in the 70s? Yes. Did they make turnkey EV versions? Yes I've found one for sale and would like to know if the list has any historical knowledge of the quality and basic designs of these cars. It varies from very good to bad and depends on how well it was cared for as they are about 25-30 yrs old. But I have seen a couple very nice ones but check it out well before you buy. they are hard to get into and tend to leak unless well done. Melbourne High School, Fla has a very good one they display amoung others. HTH's, Jerry Dycus -- Chris Buresh St. Paul, MN --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---The problem is, the tale that Dennis is telling (to everyone that will listen) is a fabrication made of whole cloth.Please keep this personal beef off the EVDL! We already have a reputation as a community for infighting, and you are furthering that stereotype. This is an informational forum, not a soapbox for public attacks and accusations.Please keep this in PRIVATE EMAIL or feel free to vent in the soapbox forum that was set up for this kind of poo flinging:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scootersoapbox -Ken Trough Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine http://visforvoltage.com AIM - ktrough FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Osmo, 1LH5118 is synchronous PM motor, not induction one. While having the same power, peak torque may not be as much as for induction motors. If you get me basic specs on your 206, I'll simulate performance for you and can tell you exactly what it will be (for 18 kW induction motor) so you can estimate performance for 15 kW synchronous one. Victor Don Cameron wrote:Osmo, the New Beetle accelerates 0-50kmh in under 6 seconds on the flats. It weighs 1700kg loaded and has a Siemens 5133 that is 30kW nominal and 78kw peak, with the Simovert short controller. The New Beetle has reasonable acceleration up hills. If I could do it again, I would convert a lighter vehicle. Less power required for acceleration and hill climbing. When I was trying to determine a motor/controller combination for the New Beetle, Victor recommended the 5105WS12 which is a smaller 18kW rated motor. He indicated that any of the motors will put out the max power of the inverter. The larger size motor is needed for longer hills. I have two such particular hills in my area and am pleased with the combination I have purchased. Maybe Victor can comment. Don Victoria, BC, CanadaSee the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site atwww.cameronsoftware.com/ev/ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Osmo Sarin Sent: September 24, 2005 1:16 AM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Peugeot 206 + 15kW Siemens (copy, with US units) ...sorry I forgot to add US units. Here´s the message again: ------- I´m planning to convert Peugeot 206 as my first project, and I´ve been offered a Siemens 1LH5118 AC motor with 15 kW rated, 123 Nm max, and Simovert 6SV1 short inverter (110-380 V, max DC 280 A, max 80 kW). According to my own calculations (which may be incorrect) I would need much more power, but the seller says 15 kW is enough for my requirements, which are: -total weight (with passengers) 1400 kg (3090 lbs) -top speed 110 km/h (68 mph) -acceleration 6 sec 0-50 km/h (0-31 mph) = normal ICE-acc. -voltage about 300 V I´d appreciate any comments, Osmo Sarin-- Victor '91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---On 26 Sep 2005 at 16:58, Chris Buresh wrote: > Is anyone familiar with the Bradley kit cars made in MN in the 70s? Did > they make turnkey EV versions? I hope Darryl McMahon's won't object if I quote the Bradley entry from his very useful EV History page at http://www.econogics.com/ev/evhistry.htm "Bradley was known for producing fibreglass body kits for converting VW Beetle chassis to a low slung sportster with gull-wing doors, known as the Bradley GT. In the wake of the 1970's OPEC oil squeeze, they also provided a package of components that permitted conversion of the vehicle to electric power - mating an electric motor to the original manual transmission. Bradley did build some of these cars themselves for sale as turnkey vehicles ready to be driven by the purchaser. These electric versions were known as the Bradley GTE (the "E" suffix for electric). The also produced a Ford T- Bird (Thunderbird) replicar called the Veebird, that was also available in an electric version." Thus, any given specimen could be a factory EV, but it might also be a homebuilt one with the electric kit installed. I honestly doubt that there's much practical difference. The components used were pretty typical conversion parts from the era. I don't know for sure that all the cars were the same, but the one I saw had a GE series motor (~20hp, I think), a PMC DCC-96 shoebox controller (using bipolar transistors and discrete logic), and 96 volts of flooded golf car batteries. I think the charger was a Lestronic II, but this was over 15 years ago and I may be confusing it with another EV. In any case, they were about as reliable and efficient as any other conversion EV using those components. Today such a car would be a good candidate for updating. Lester chargers are usually good for the long run, and Lester still supports them. With luck, the motor should still be OK too. However, I'd be very surprised if that original controller were still working today, and spares for it are apparently rather difficult to find. (I may still have a schematic if you want to try.) I can't really provide any input about the build quality of the body and running gear. Hope this helps.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---On 9/24/05, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > For example, a standard 120vac 60hz induction motor can be operated on > other voltages and frequencies. Let's say you have a 1hp 120vac 60hz > motor -- what happens if you operate it at 120vac 50hz? Well a motor designed for an EV has to operate at a pretty wide range of speeds, and that is achieved by varying the frequency a lot, right? So I would guess these motors are much more tolerant of different frequencies than typical stationary motors. How would they achieve that?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Hello Peter, This was back in the sixtys! I read this in either a science digest or popular science magazine at the time. It may be that some form of this was invented by someone else and he was not granted one. But the Swiss ETEL is real, just search for ETEL motors in your search engine, and you will come up ETEL motors and source of supply for. Roland ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter VanDerWal<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:38 AM Subject: Re: World Solar Challenge, Comments > A permanent magnet rotor is use which are normally call BRUSHLESS MOTORS. > They are having SWISS ETEL design these motors for this aircraft. > > This design was built and tested in 1966 by a student of electrical > engineering here in the USA. It consisted of a fiberglass coil form with > the magnet wires wound around the outside surface. The rotor was a > permanent magnet rotor. > > He tried to patent it back then, but was turn down because the patent > office engineers said it did not work and was too BIG to be practical. A > hand held electric drill would have to have a crane to carry it around. > Can you site a reference for that story? Seems like BS to me, I've never heard the patent office refusing to patent something because "it's not practical" and there are thousands of patents given out for devices that not only don't work, but CAN'T work (they violate numerous laws of physics). Like I said, sounds this story sounds fishy. -- If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Rod, If you or NEDRA are going to "interpret" the class that a car fits into on a case by case basis, you are going to kill the incentive to build new cars or to run under NEDRA sanction. We need hard and fast rules that we can build cars to so we have the confidence that when we are ready to run that it won't be reclassified because of someones "opinion". Just because a car "pushes the envelope" of a class doesn't automatically make it something to be looked down upon. Isn't pushing the envelope what leads to new developments? Yes NHRA from time to time revisits rules and adjusts them as they see fit, but from what they have told me they do not do this lightly or often. I have seen cars around Phx like your gutted Chevy driving to the soda fountain, out to dinner etc. Not particularly comfortable or practical but street legal they are. And they are most definately street legal. The Police make damn sure of that, LOL. IMHO, if its got a vin# and a current licence plate and registration, it is steet legal. And as far as I can tell, that is NEDRAs current defination of SC. Please correct me if I am wrong. For instance I firmly believe that Johns Datsun is a no problem SC. Even tho I can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a Ford 9" and a spool. Even if he wants to run wheelie bars, take out some of the upholstry or tub it so he can run slicks if he wants to. He can always run street tires for the races that require it, or for jaunts down to the soda fountain. BTW, I am sorry but I cannot remember, what class does "Postal" run in? I am not trying to be a smartass, I just havn't noticed and didn't see it on the NEDRA site anywhere. Anyway, I guess I am in a quandry now too. What is the concise definition of SC and MC? And the differances between the two? This is pretty much what Dennis was trying to ascertain and what I was looking for over a year ago when I asked about a Citicar that I was thinking of running. And so far as I can tell neither of us has gotten an answer yet that we can use. David Chapman. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Which Nedra class? > Rich Rudman said: "And Dennis is trying to make a Street legal truck Both > NEDRA and Madman's100 compliant." > > I am assuming Rich that you are referring to your own ethereal 100 mph club. > I really don't believe Dennis's truck would fall into your original intended > rules for your 100 mph club. On May 16th of 2004 you posted to the list: > > The point is TO HAVE A daily driver, that is 100 mph capable on the strip. > It's one of the hardest things to do. And I want it to stay exclusive. Light > dragsters, and tube frame Evs, should do it no problem. Doing it with a > commuter and lead powered is Haaarrrd!! The point of any street Rod is drive > to the soda fountain, or for some dinner, then have fun on the way home. > > Dennis Berube wrote: > > If a person had a pro street truck(NHRA)tube frame, fiber body fitted in > such a way as to be totaly street legal and driven on the street with a lic. > and insurance which class would it belong to in nedra? > > A vehicle built like this has been discussed at NEDRA board meetings before. > The idea I had was for a class called Xtreme Street which would have the > designation XS. So if you were a high voltage car you would be XS/A When I > went to the Wayland Invitational Saturday Night Street Legal Drags at PIR I > was parked next to a fully gutted chevy that was tubbed and had 14" wide > wrinkle walls with grooves to make them street legal. It ran wheelie bars > and turned 9 second ETs. This may be the NHRA version of a street legal car > but I believe NEDRA might look at it differently. We made the modified > conversion category to handle cars that were beyond daily drivers. At that > time no one had put the money and time to build a vehicle such as Dennis > describes except for "The Ghia Monster" www.ghiamonster.com which is > currently still under construction. I personally would love to see Dennis or > anyone else build a car like this to push the EV envelope and the EV > movement. I am sure that a category for these vehicles will be established > by NEDRA at some point. It is great to see the interest in EV drag racing > growing. > > Roderick wilde > NEDRA President > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release Date: 9/23/2005 >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Mainly by altering magnetic characteristics (other than mechanical design of course). The motors have to have low enough inductance to get decent current to flow at high frequencies (where inductive resistance rise), yet have lamination material properties to prevent saturation at near zero RPM. Of course balancing at 12k RPM is quite different from that for 3,550 RPM, and so is the bearing construction, associated shaft material with predictable temp expansion (requiring floating bearings) and other tricks. This is one of the reasons they cost as much as they do, and it is not just because the volume production is low. If this would be the case, but the motors nevertheless would not be *tat* different from 60 Hz ones, they would still cost more but not *that much* more as they do. Also, of course all depends who builds the motors, reputation of the company and "added value" of reliable operation, (how tough" they are) and good warranty terms. All else being equal, don't expect the motots built in Switzerland or Germany to be the same than those built in China. Victor Shawn Rutledge wrote:On 9/24/05, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:For example, a standard 120vac 60hz induction motor can be operated on other voltages and frequencies. Let's say you have a 1hp 120vac 60hz motor -- what happens if you operate it at 120vac 50hz?Well a motor designed for an EV has to operate at a pretty wide range of speeds, and that is achieved by varying the frequency a lot, right? So I would guess these motors are much more tolerant of different frequencies than typical stationary motors. How would they achieve that?-- Victor '91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Hello Phil, I read about this either in one of the science or popular science magazines back in the 60's. He did not get a patent granted to him, because it may be too similar to already existing devices like a reactor coil. In the communication field, I build communication coils, where I tuned it by sliding a magnetic or iron core threw it. I know I could not get a patent on this, because it's already invented. I WAS REFUSED A PATENT APPLICATION FOR A DEVICE I MADE AND TESTED BACK IN THE 70's. It was a control system that can operated a ICE engine and a EV system as a series hybrid that selected either of the prime movers at the highest effiency. Back then, they said, there is no market for this device. This was a patent search company that approaches companies with the product to see if it feasible. I than seal up all this info and had it sent to myself threw the U.S. Register Mail which they again seal it. Its still seal today. This gives a proof date. Roland ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Marino<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 10:35 AM Subject: Re: World Solar Challenge, - Patents >From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > >He tried to patent it back then, but was turn down because the patent >office engineers said it did not work and was too BIG to be practical. A >hand held electric drill would have to have a crane to carry it aroud > If you're talking about the US patent office, this is not likely. The practicality or even usefulness of an invention is not considered by the patent office when applying for a patent. And, generally, the patent office does not even require an invention to work. They certainly never do any testing. Almost all of their work is determining just that it is novel (has not been invented, used, or disclosed before). Did you hear this directly from the inventor, or is this third or fourth hand information? Phil Marino 20-something patents (so far) _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/<http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:18:36 -0400, "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Bill > >This is not of general interest to ev'ers. Please take if off list or drop >it. > Hey, this is kinda fun. Like attending a virtual cock fight. As long as they don't draw too much blood, I'd not mind watching :-) John --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Victor Tikhonov wrote: > Coming back to your own message about "right" customer, the customer > who can accept "modest" reduction in performance and efficiency is > not a target customer for BRUSA. Yes; I agree completely. Brusa (and Siemens, and AC Propulsion, and GM's EV1, and the other automaker's AC EVs, and the solar race cars, etc.) are all in the high-performance, high-cost end of the market. That's where they want to be, and where they want their customers. >> If you want peak performance and efficiency, then you match the >> motor and controller. Victor Tikhonov wrote: > Who wouldn't want the peak performance and efficiency? Someone who cares more about cost! I happen to think this means 9 out of 10 people. They may be short-sighted, and will pay more in the long run, but that's their opinion. They will buy NOTHING until they can get it cheap. That's why it's good that there are these old DC brushed motors and cheap PWM controllers. The "cheapskates" can still build and drive EVs. They will learn, and move up to something better! That's also why it's too bad there are no cheap simple AC drives. They would provide a lower-cost entry into what is bound to be the long-term future of electric vehicle drive systems. -- Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons. -- R. Buckminster Fuller -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I noticed a 7% speed increase on my EM after advancing timing from 0 to 10 degrees. I was only trying to suppress brush arcing, but the speed boost was a welcome side benefit. Mark T.----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:53 AM Subject: Re: Adjustable timing 8-inch motor - correction and photosHey MarkYes speed will increase as you advance but so do amps. So the ABR allows you to find a happy medium in relationship of your voltage, motor, and load. The higher the voltage the higher the need to time the brushes to prevent comm. arcing. You will lose some low end torque but will see more high end speed.Hope this helps Jim Husted Hi-Torque Electric Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I was curious, if you advance the timing say 7 degrees will the top speed increase? I guess a way to test would be to operate at 12V and move the timing back and forth to find the highest speed. Thanks, Mark----- Original Message ----- From: "James Massey"To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 4:57 AM Subject: Re: Adjustable timing 8-inch motor - correction and photosAt 01:45 AM 23/09/05 -0700, Doug Weathers wrote: >In an attempt to make it up to you, I took some pictures and posted >them on my website. Enjoy. > >> >timing-motor/>Which didn't work because Doug put a space in where there wasn't one, thisworks: http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/static/galleries/variable-timing-motor/James--------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---John, your Mac's battery has been flat for too long. This your email is dated Dec. 31 1969... John Wayland wrote:Hello to All,The title says it all! The 12.424 came on the 5th run of 7 total runs... -- Victor '91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---So my Saturn conversion had the tires which had been on it for several years. They were weather cracked, so they had maybe 30 miles put on them before I promptly had them recycled and fresh rubber put on. I took it to the Goodyear store where I kind of know the people there, which afforded me a 10% discount! So today I got this in the mail and found it rather hillarious. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ricksuiter/album?.dir=/5db6 I'm sure they send this to all of their customers. Later, Ricky 02 Red Insight #559 92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I find your post extremely insulting! David, what part of left field are you coming from? There was no mention in my post of NEDRA reclassifying cars because of someone's "opinion" as you state. How did you interpret that from my post? When we initially made the classes we did the best we could with the knowledge we had at the time. The NHRA has gone through many changes. Bracket racing did not start in 1953 at the inception of the NHRA. It came much later when the competition was so stiff that it would cost you an additional ten grand for a tenth of a second. You further state: "Yes NHRA from time to time revisits rules and adjusts them as they see fit, but from what they have told me they do not do this lightly or often." The last major rule change that I can think of that the NHRA did was to allow electric cars and motorcycles to race on NHRA tracks. Until 1999 the rule book stated that you must have an internal combustion engine. Bill Dube and myself lobbied the NHRA on behalf of NEDRA and got that rule changed to allow electric motorcycles and electric cars. Dennis Berube personally got a battery rule changed in the NHRA rule book just for his own vehicle. So tell me Mr. NEDRA expert, when was the last time NEDRA made any major rule changes? The only ones I can think of off the top of my head were when we decided to align ourselves with the NHRA rules. This brought about dropping go carts and class 64 vehicles due to NHRA safety regulations. It was not brought about by "opinions" or any prejudice toward any particular vehicle or person, period.You also stated: "Just because a car "pushes the envelope" of a class doesn't automatically make it something to be looked down upon." What recesses of your mind did you pull this one from. I stated I would love to see Dennis or anyone else push the envelope of EV drag racing. Where did you get this "looked down upon" attitude. This is pure BS. I have always been pro EV performance and everyone on this list who's been here for a while knows that. You further state: "For instance I firmly believe that Johns Datsun is a no problem SC. Even tho I can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a Ford 9" and a spool." You know you got me on this one. I can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a Zilla and two Warp 8" motors either. whod a thunk it! You ask: "Anyway, I guess I am in a quandry now too. What is the concise definition of SC and MC? And the differances between the two?" This is a valid question and I will admit that the NEDRA site does not go into more detail than street Conversions (SC) are street legal and Modified Conversions (MC) are not due to things like wrinkle wall slicks that aren't DOT approved. I agree with you that we need to clarify these rules but you also make the point that if we do we will be perceived as trying to "reclassify cars due to opinions". Actually the NEDRA board has recently been discussing making the class rules clearer. NEDRA is an all volunteer organization and it is easy for all the sideline quarterbacks to criticize when a few are doing all the thankless work.Roderick Wilde NEDRA PresidentPS: I first brought up the XS class over three or four years ago when thinking of building an all out plastic street bodied, tube chassis, ultra lightweight multi motored electric. I brought it up because I thought it would not be fair for me to run against MC cars. The purpose of having classes is to try to make the playing field more fair for all the participants.----- Original Message ----- From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:08 AM Subject: Re: Which Nedra class?Rod,If you or NEDRA are going to "interpret" the class that a car fits into on a case by case basis, you are going to kill the incentive to build new cars orto run under NEDRA sanction. We need hard and fast rules that we can build cars to so we have the confidence that when we are ready to run that it won't be reclassified because of someones "opinion". Just because a car"pushes the envelope" of a class doesn't automatically make it something tobe looked down upon. Isn't pushing the envelope what leads to newdevelopments? Yes NHRA from time to time revisits rules and adjusts them as they see fit, but from what they have told me they do not do this lightly oroften. I have seen cars around Phx like your gutted Chevy driving to thesoda fountain, out to dinner etc. Not particularly comfortable or practicalbut street legal they are. And they are most definately street legal. The Police make damn sure of that, LOL. IMHO, if its got a vin# and a currentlicence plate and registration, it is steet legal. And as far as I can tell,that is NEDRAs current defination of SC. Please correct me if I am wrong.For instance I firmly believe that Johns Datsun is a no problem SC. Even thoI can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a Ford 9" and a spool.Even if he wants to run wheelie bars, take out some of the upholstry or tubit so he can run slicks if he wants to. He can always run street tires for the races that require it, or for jaunts down to the soda fountain. BTW, I am sorry but I cannot remember, what class does "Postal" run in? I am not trying to be a smartass, I just havn't noticed and didn't see it on the NEDRA site anywhere.Anyway, I guess I am in a quandry now too. What is the concise definition ofSC and MC? And the differances between the two? This is pretty much what Dennis was trying to ascertain and what I was looking for over a year agowhen I asked about a Citicar that I was thinking of running. And so far as Ican tell neither of us has gotten an answer yet that we can use. David Chapman.----- Original Message ----- From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Which Nedra class?Rich Rudman said: "And Dennis is trying to make a Street legal truck Both NEDRA and Madman's100 compliant." I am assuming Rich that you are referring to your own ethereal 100 mphclub.I really don't believe Dennis's truck would fall into your originalintendedrules for your 100 mph club. On May 16th of 2004 you posted to the list:The point is TO HAVE A daily driver, that is 100 mph capable on the strip.It's one of the hardest things to do. And I want it to stay exclusive.Lightdragsters, and tube frame Evs, should do it no problem. Doing it with a commuter and lead powered is Haaarrrd!! The point of any street Rod isdriveto the soda fountain, or for some dinner, then have fun on the way home. Dennis Berube wrote: If a person had a pro street truck(NHRA)tube frame, fiber body fittedinsuch a way as to be totaly street legal and driven on the street with alic.and insurance which class would it belong to in nedra? A vehicle built like this has been discussed at NEDRA board meetingsbefore.The idea I had was for a class called Xtreme Street which would have thedesignation XS. So if you were a high voltage car you would be XS/A When Iwent to the Wayland Invitational Saturday Night Street Legal Drags at PIRIwas parked next to a fully gutted chevy that was tubbed and had 14" wide wrinkle walls with grooves to make them street legal. It ran wheelie bars and turned 9 second ETs. This may be the NHRA version of a street legalcarbut I believe NEDRA might look at it differently. We made the modifiedconversion category to handle cars that were beyond daily drivers. At thattime no one had put the money and time to build a vehicle such as Dennis describes except for "The Ghia Monster" www.ghiamonster.com which is currently still under construction. I personally would love to see Dennisoranyone else build a car like this to push the EV envelope and the EVmovement. I am sure that a category for these vehicles will be establishedby NEDRA at some point. It is great to see the interest in EV drag racing growing. Roderick wilde NEDRA President -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release Date: 9/23/2005-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.7/112 - Release Date: 9/26/2005-- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.7/112 - Release Date: 9/26/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---I have some circuit breakers which are about 60% of the voltage rating of my (proposed) battery pack. I'm thinking about using two in series so the rating of the breakers excedes the pack voltage. That in turn caused me to consider putting the different breakers in different spots in the pack - basically splitting the pack into 3 sections (plus a separate fuse for the controller.) What am I missing? Kluge
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- If they're not mechanically coupled, so that they both open at the same time, it is most likely that only one will open in case of a fault. Then, that one breaker will see the entire pack voltage. It would be over its rated voltage spec, and may arc, fuse, etc.PhilFrom: Kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Battery pack circuit breakers Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:31:48 -0700I have some circuit breakers which are about 60% of the voltage rating of my (proposed) battery pack. I'm thinking about using two in series so the rating of the breakers excedes the pack voltage. That in turn caused me to consider putting the different breakers in different spots in the pack - basically splitting the pack into 3 sections (plus a separate fuse for the controller.) What am I missing?Kluge_________________________________________________________________Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Kilowatt wrote: > **I agree,I got spoiled driving my ranger ev but it was far from a 99mph vech. Were the motors in it 99+mph capable in the 1/4 if it had an inverter upgrade and AGM's or some other battery?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Jim,I like your ideas. This has stirred a thought in my head If I eliminate the internal fan in my motor I could shorten the housing accordingly. The only problem I see with this is the holes that were the outlet for the fan before will be eliminated. So I would drill some new holes to let the air out to cool the motor. Would I be screwing up the magnetic lines of force from the fields if I were to drill holes in the case between the field windings.Thanks for any input. Mike G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Hey, come on guys if you keep this up I won't have time to watch Jerry Springer this week. Then again, instead of taking it offline, perhaps someone oughta give Jerry a call :-)damonFrom: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Subject: Re: Which Nedra class? Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:04:03 -0700I find your post extremely insulting! David, what part of left field are you coming from? There was no mention in my post of NEDRA reclassifying cars because of someone's "opinion" as you state. How did you interpret that from my post? When we initially made the classes we did the best we could with the knowledge we had at the time. The NHRA has gone through many changes. Bracket racing did not start in 1953 at the inception of the NHRA. It came much later when the competition was so stiff that it would cost you an additional ten grand for a tenth of a second. You further state: "Yes NHRA from time to time revisits rules and adjusts them as they see fit, but from what they have told me they do not do this lightly or often." The last major rule change that I can think of that the NHRA did was to allow electric cars and motorcycles to race on NHRA tracks. Until 1999 the rule book stated that you must have an internal combustion engine. Bill Dube and myself lobbied the NHRA on behalf of NEDRA and got that rule changed to allow electric motorcycles and electric cars. Dennis Berube personally got a battery rule changed in the NHRA rule book just for his own vehicle. So tell me Mr. NEDRA expert, when was the last time NEDRA made any major rule changes? The only ones I can think of off the top of my head were when we decided to align ourselves with the NHRA rules. This brought about dropping go carts and class 64 vehicles due to NHRA safety regulations. It was not brought about by "opinions" or any prejudice toward any particular vehicle or person, period.You also stated: "Just because a car "pushes the envelope" of a class doesn't automatically make it something to be looked down upon." What recesses of your mind did you pull this one from. I stated I would love to see Dennis or anyone else push the envelope of EV drag racing. Where did you get this "looked down upon" attitude. This is pure BS. I have always been pro EV performance and everyone on this list who's been here for a while knows that. You further state: "For instance I firmly believe that Johns Datsun is a no problem SC. Even tho I can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a Ford 9" and a spool." You know you got me on this one. I can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a Zilla and two Warp 8" motors either. whod a thunk it! You ask: "Anyway, I guess I am in a quandry now too. What is the concise definition of SC and MC? And the differances between the two?" This is a valid question and I will admit that the NEDRA site does not go into more detail than street Conversions (SC) are street legal and Modified Conversions (MC) are not due to things like wrinkle wall slicks that aren't DOT approved. I agree with you that we need to clarify these rules but you also make the point that if we do we will be perceived as trying to "reclassify cars due to opinions". Actually the NEDRA board has recently been discussing making the class rules clearer. NEDRA is an all volunteer organization and it is easy for all the sideline quarterbacks to criticize when a few are doing all the thankless work.Roderick Wilde NEDRA PresidentPS: I first brought up the XS class over three or four years ago when thinking of building an all out plastic street bodied, tube chassis, ultra lightweight multi motored electric. I brought it up because I thought it would not be fair for me to run against MC cars. The purpose of having classes is to try to make the playing field more fair for all the participants.----- Original Message ----- From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:08 AM Subject: Re: Which Nedra class?Rod,If you or NEDRA are going to "interpret" the class that a car fits into on a case by case basis, you are going to kill the incentive to build new cars orto run under NEDRA sanction. We need hard and fast rules that we can build cars to so we have the confidence that when we are ready to run that it won't be reclassified because of someones "opinion". Just because a car"pushes the envelope" of a class doesn't automatically make it something tobe looked down upon. Isn't pushing the envelope what leads to newdevelopments? Yes NHRA from time to time revisits rules and adjusts them as they see fit, but from what they have told me they do not do this lightly oroften. I have seen cars around Phx like your gutted Chevy driving to thesoda fountain, out to dinner etc. Not particularly comfortable or practicalbut street legal they are. And they are most definately street legal. The Police make damn sure of that, LOL. IMHO, if its got a vin# and a currentlicence plate and registration, it is steet legal. And as far as I can tell,that is NEDRAs current defination of SC. Please correct me if I am wrong.For instance I firmly believe that Johns Datsun is a no problem SC. Even thoI can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a Ford 9" and a spool.Even if he wants to run wheelie bars, take out some of the upholstry or tubit so he can run slicks if he wants to. He can always run street tires for the races that require it, or for jaunts down to the soda fountain. BTW, I am sorry but I cannot remember, what class does "Postal" run in? I am not trying to be a smartass, I just havn't noticed and didn't see it on the NEDRA site anywhere.Anyway, I guess I am in a quandry now too. What is the concise definition ofSC and MC? And the differances between the two? This is pretty much what Dennis was trying to ascertain and what I was looking for over a year agowhen I asked about a Citicar that I was thinking of running. And so far as Ican tell neither of us has gotten an answer yet that we can use. David Chapman. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Which Nedra class?Rich Rudman said: "And Dennis is trying to make a Street legal truck Both NEDRA and Madman's100 compliant." I am assuming Rich that you are referring to your own ethereal 100 mphclub.I really don't believe Dennis's truck would fall into your originalintendedrules for your 100 mph club. On May 16th of 2004 you posted to the list:The point is TO HAVE A daily driver, that is 100 mph capable on the strip.It's one of the hardest things to do. And I want it to stay exclusive.Lightdragsters, and tube frame Evs, should do it no problem. Doing it with a commuter and lead powered is Haaarrrd!! The point of any street Rod isdriveto the soda fountain, or for some dinner, then have fun on the way home. Dennis Berube wrote: If a person had a pro street truck(NHRA)tube frame, fiber body fittedinsuch a way as to be totaly street legal and driven on the street with alic.and insurance which class would it belong to in nedra? A vehicle built like this has been discussed at NEDRA board meetingsbefore.The idea I had was for a class called Xtreme Street which would have thedesignation XS. So if you were a high voltage car you would be XS/A When Iwent to the Wayland Invitational Saturday Night Street Legal Drags at PIRIwas parked next to a fully gutted chevy that was tubbed and had 14" wide wrinkle walls with grooves to make them street legal. It ran wheelie bars and turned 9 second ETs. This may be the NHRA version of a street legalcarbut I believe NEDRA might look at it differently. We made the modifiedconversion category to handle cars that were beyond daily drivers. At thattime no one had put the money and time to build a vehicle such as Dennis describes except for "The Ghia Monster" www.ghiamonster.com which is currently still under construction. I personally would love to see Dennisoranyone else build a car like this to push the EV envelope and the EVmovement. I am sure that a category for these vehicles will be establishedby NEDRA at some point. It is great to see the interest in EV drag racing growing. Roderick wilde NEDRA President -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release Date: 9/23/2005-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.7/112 - Release Date: 9/26/2005-- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.7/112 - Release Date: 9/26/2005
--- End Message ---