EV Digest 6910
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Brake booster pressure
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Prius conversion
by Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EVision sneak preview
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: What happened when I went to cash in on my battery warrenty
by "Martin Winlow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EVision sneak preview
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Trouble getting into the "ev-list-archive"
by "Mark Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: What happened when I went to cash in on my battery warrenty
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: What happened when I went to cash in on my battery warrenty
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Wanted: Knife switch for battery disconnect
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Wanted: Knife switch for battery disconnect
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Wanted: Knife switch for battery disconnect
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Wanted: Knife switch for battery disconnect
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Wanted: Knife switch for battery disconnect
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Wanted: Knife switch for battery disconnect [clarification]
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Wheelchair batteries
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: What happened when I went to cash in on my battery warrenty
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: What happened when I went to cash in on my battery warrenty
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Surplus Railway Flooded Nicads?RR thoughts
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV Library, What Books Would You Recommend?
by "Deanne Mott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Internal Resistance
by Joseph Tahbaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Wheelchair batteries
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Prius conversion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) RE: Prius conversion
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
It really depends on how big the booster is on your car. I don't know of
any engine that was able to pull 20 inches of vacuum. Most pull around
19 at idle. When hotrods go below 13 they usually add an accumulator to
the system to get a little more but I think you will be fine with 11 or
12.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 18:09
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Brake booster pressure
I bought a vaccum pump off ebay - to operate the power brakes.
It is from a superduty ford diesel -
its pretty small and quiet - but it only pulls about 11 to 12 in. Hg of
vaccum (according to a gage..)
Do you think this will be enough, or do I need to get something else?
A friend has a unit that pulls 20-25; and his brakes work fine.
I'm wondering if mine will work ok, or if I need more "help" -
Thanks!
Best Regards all -
Ed Cooley
Charlotte, NC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As I pick away at the rebuild of my '04 Salvage Prius, I cannot help
but think about pulling out the ICE and making it a pure EV with more
batteries.
We all pine for the inexpensive EV parts that are rare, given the
volume of the current market and here is Toyota cranking out all
these AC EV parts.
As I look for replacement used parts, it is amazing how reasonable
their battery packs (albeit small), inverters and motor/transaxle
units are.\ on the used market.
These are the basics for some great DIY projects, aren't they? If you
add in the aerodynamics of the Prius and the fact that they seem to
run 150-250wh/mile, it seems reasonable (at least to me!) that they
will become the source of our antics on this list as they get a
little age on them.
So far, I am into this rebuild, which is an '04 with 14K on it, $4900
for the unit, $2600 for bits (including new airbags) and probably
have another grand to go. This will be a rebuilt title, with the body
work being done by someone who knows what they are doing. We spend
more than this on a lot of our
EV projects.
Just seems that between what Toyota and Honda have been putting out,
IF we can get by some of the re-programming issues, we will have a
wealth of EV parts that are already road tested. That '04 drive motor
is 50kw. That's not bad for an EV that only needs 150-250 wh/mile.
Tom in Maine
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
I somehow missed the original thread about Victor's new EV
battery-vehicle performance meter, only catching the one from John and
Victor's response to it.
I've held a prototype model in my hands and will say, that this is going
to be one of those 'must have' devices for anyone's EVs!
Victor has put a lot of thought into this new product...he's a very
thorough guy. What's really amazing, is that in addition to working well
in all AC powered cars, it works on DC cars well (sorry Victor, I
couldn't resist that one).
I'll be beta testing one as soon as he's ready to hand it over to me,
and will no doubt be buying the first production unit available. I'm
having a hard time trying to decide which EV it will go into, but more
than likely it will see extended street duty and most assuredly racing
duty in White Zombie.
All EVers should be excited over this! 'EVision' is a great product
name, too, but I of course, will be calling it my 'Victrometer' :-)
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm... Being the cynic that I am, I think I would be more likely to side
with Steve on the evidence provided so far.
Anyway, here's a possible way to tell... Steve; Get a friend to take the
second of your suspected duds back to Wall Mart and say "Hello. I think
this battery might need replacing... I've had for a while. Could you test
it please and tell me if its ok?" If he tests it and says "It's dead" you
know you're being ripped off!
Bottom line?... As ever, you (generally) get what you pay for.
Regards, MW.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Powers
Sent: 18 June 2007 00:17
To: ev
Subject: What happened when I went to cash in on my battery warrenty
I am posting this for the benefit of anyone else comtemplating getting
anything other than a starting battery from the Wal-Mart. Maybe Sams is the
same, I don't know, but I am guessing they use the same tools.
I'm trying to get to the bottom of my battery issue.
So, I took out the one I knew to be the worst.
Literally, the case is warped. The plates are obviously warped and
shorting. It failed in a very severe manner. But, it looks like only one
of the 10 met this fate. Maybe it sacrificed itself for the others, or
maybe it truely had a defect from the get go. I always noticed since Day #1
of install that it lagged the others.
Step #1 -
I took it back to Walmart and showed them the warped case. I also took the
other one that was sitting next to it. No issues with that one. So, I
expected they would just replace it. They put it on their "tester"
if you can call it that. Programmed it for Marine / deep cycle / 550 CCA /
71 degrees F. A few seconds later, it poped out a printout saying "good
battery"
I wasn't really surprised. The tester gave the battery a rating of 497 CCA
out of the rated 550 CCA.
Hey I said, that is no good. But, the printout says it is fine ...
The other one read 527 CCA. Also somewhat degraded.
So, for kicks I had him test a known bad battery that I took out of my
original string. One that I couldn't even get 1 mile range out of. Put a
load on it, and it goes to 10 V immediately. It read 639 CCA. I about fell
over. Come on. That thing is completely toast, 639 CCA ... yea right!
Anyway, I walked out with my severely degraded batteries that they refused
to honor the warranty on - because "they are still good !?!?"
So, I am going to put them back in tomorrow, drive up and down the big hill
in my neighborhood 5-6 times and that will be the end of them. Then, I'm
going to take them back when I know for sure that they are completely
destroyed.
At no point have I mistreated them. I kept them charged, watered, etc.
Never took them over 50% DOD.
I know for sure that at least the one with the warped case had to be
defective - internal short of some kind ...
Bottom line, don't buy batteries from someone who knows nothing about them.
They won't know how to test them, and even when they are bad, you won't get
replacements. All you will get is a long run around.
Hope this helps someone. In the meantime, I know that if I want to cash in
on any battery warranty at the Walmart, I have to be certain that they are
completely wasted before I bring them back. I tried to do the right thing
and treat them right. Didn't get me very far at all. Again all I can say
is 500 lousy miles.
I'd really like to take this up with Johnson Controls who made those things.
I still say at least some of them are in fact starting batteries labeled
wrong, labeled as deep cycle. How else could this have happened?
In the meantime, I'm without my EV until I get this worked out.
Steve
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know it's an item that I might be interested in - good luck with it Victor.
----- Original Message ----
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:26:34 AM
Subject: Re: EVision sneak preview
Hello to All,
I somehow missed the original thread about Victor's new EV
battery-vehicle performance meter, only catching the one from John and
Victor's response to it.
I've held a prototype model in my hands and will say, that this is going
to be one of those 'must have' devices for anyone's EVs!
Victor has put a lot of thought into this new product...he's a very
thorough guy. What's really amazing, is that in addition to working well
in all AC powered cars, it works on DC cars well (sorry Victor, I
couldn't resist that one).
I'll be beta testing one as soon as he's ready to hand it over to me,
and will no doubt be buying the first production unit available. I'm
having a hard time trying to decide which EV it will go into, but more
than likely it will see extended street duty and most assuredly racing
duty in White Zombie.
All EVers should be excited over this! 'EVision' is a great product
name, too, but I of course, will be calling it my 'Victrometer' :-)
See Ya....John Wayland
___________________________________________________________________________________
You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck
in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All:
I went to the "ev-list-archive" on Yahoo groups:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/
, and got a "Members only" message.
Whazzup? I thought that was the searchable archive for the individual
discussion list topics. The other EVDL group:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/
lists the digests, which are harder to search for a particular thread.
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
I scrolled through some of your earlier posts. You mentioned
that you are using $10 "Speed Chargers." This maybe the problem.
Inexpensive chargers often don't run a correct charging sequence for
deep cycle batteries. You need to check what sort of voltage profile
these chargers are doing while charging your batteries.
You need to slightly overcharge flooded deep cycle batteries
at least occasionally. They should bubble and gas just a bit. If you
aren't doing this, then you are not fully charging your batteries.
Measure the voltage frequently during the charge and measure
the battery temperature. Then let us know what the profile is. Folks
that are experts in flooded led-acid will be able to tell you if it
is correct for the temperature. The peak voltage is the most
important, but you need to know how long it stayed at that peak too.
Bill Dube'
At 05:16 PM 6/17/2007, you wrote:
I am posting this for the benefit of anyone else
comtemplating getting anything other than a starting
battery from the Wal-Mart. Maybe Sams is the same, I
don't know, but I am guessing they use the same tools.
I'm trying to get to the bottom of my battery issue.
So, I took out the one I knew to be the worst.
Literally, the case is warped. The plates are
obviously warped and shorting. It failed in a very
severe manner. But, it looks like only one of the 10
met this fate. Maybe it sacrificed itself for the
others, or maybe it truely had a defect from the get
go. I always noticed since Day #1 of install that it
lagged the others.
Step #1 -
I took it back to Walmart and showed them the warped
case. I also took the other one that was sitting next
to it. No issues with that one. So, I expected they
would just replace it. They put it on their "tester"
if you can call it that. Programmed it for Marine /
deep cycle / 550 CCA / 71 degrees F. A few seconds
later, it poped out a printout saying "good battery"
I wasn't really surprised. The tester gave the
battery a rating of 497 CCA out of the rated 550 CCA.
Hey I said, that is no good. But, the printout says
it is fine ...
The other one read 527 CCA. Also somewhat degraded.
So, for kicks I had him test a known bad battery that
I took out of my original string. One that I couldn't
even get 1 mile range out of. Put a load on it, and
it goes to 10 V immediately. It read 639 CCA. I
about fell over. Come on. That thing is completely
toast, 639 CCA ... yea right!
Anyway, I walked out with my severely degraded
batteries that they refused to honor the warranty on -
because "they are still good !?!?"
So, I am going to put them back in tomorrow, drive up
and down the big hill in my neighborhood 5-6 times and
that will be the end of them. Then, I'm going to take
them back when I know for sure that they are
completely destroyed.
At no point have I mistreated them. I kept them
charged, watered, etc. Never took them over 50% DOD.
I know for sure that at least the one with the warped
case had to be defective - internal short of some kind
...
Bottom line, don't buy batteries from someone who
knows nothing about them. They won't know how to test
them, and even when they are bad, you won't get
replacements. All you will get is a long run around.
Hope this helps someone. In the meantime, I know that
if I want to cash in on any battery warranty at the
Walmart, I have to be certain that they are completely
wasted before I bring them back. I tried to do the
right thing and treat them right. Didn't get me very
far at all. Again all I can say is 500 lousy miles.
I'd really like to take this up with Johnson Controls
who made those things. I still say at least some of
them are in fact starting batteries labeled wrong,
labeled as deep cycle. How else could this have
happened?
In the meantime, I'm without my EV until I get this
worked out.
Steve
____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Steve,
I will be going to WalMart this week, and like to take a look at the type of
battery you have.
What type of battery and model number are you using, is it a 6 or 12 volt?
Is it a marine or a golf type battery?
What is the amp hour rating of the battery at what reserved minutes at 75
amps load?
What is the amp-hour per mile your EV uses? If it is above 3 AH per mile for
normal driving, then you can reduce the AH usage by using a greater overall
gear ratio. I am running a 19.5:1 overall gear ratio to keep my battery
ampere at 5 to 30 amps. I only use 3 to 5 battery amps at low speed city
driving and may get way up to 50 amps when I do a normal acceleration.
It is best to not discharge a battery below 30% DOD (or has 70% charge left)
for the first 100 cycles for long life, then you could take it to 50% DOD if
you have to. I do not run my 6 volt gulf type batteries below 30% DOD
anyway.
If you need to discharge below 50%, then you should have a larger amp-hour
battery. I run 260 to 300 AH batteries, that It takes me about 4 days to
use 50 AH, with is still above 70% State of Charge.
My batteries are Trojan 6 volt T-145's 260 AH with a reserved minutes of 145
minutes at 75 amps. At 25 amps the reserved minutes will be about 530
minutes.
City driving at 25 mph, I could go about 530/2= 260 minutes or about four
hours at 25 mph at 25 battery amps on very level streets. Normally its
double that on other grades which gives me between 50 to 75 mile range.
These EV batteries are rated in reserved minutes, not cranking amps. To
really test out this type of battery. You take a load bank meter and test
out the whole pack at the same time at 75 amps and see if it can discharge
at the reserved minutes that is listed. At 75 amps, my battery when new
should hold 75 amps for 145 minutes.
It is best to test a battery pack, by just driving it at 75 amps for about
60 minutes or about 50% DOD. I did this just once when the batteries were
new to check them out. I had one battery that drop faster than the others,
and I had it replace it right now.
In buying a battery for a EV, you want to look at the reserved minutes at
the 75 amp and 25 amp rated. If the dealer cannot do this and is only
listed as cranking amp, then it's not the right battery for a EV.
If they have the battery listed in reserved minutes, then you can convert
that to amp-hours.
A battery rated for 100 ampere-hour can deliver 5 amperes for 20 hours (5
amperes x 20 hours - 100 amp-hrs)
Actual battery capacity decreases as discharge current increases. A battery
rated at 100 ampere-hours which can deliver 5 amperes for 20 hours, may only
deliver 20 amperes only 4 hours, resulting in an actual capacity of 80
ampere-hours.
For example of my battery with 145 reserved minutes at 75 amps, the actual
would be:
145 min / 60 = 2.41 hours
2.41 hr x 75 amps = 181.25 amp-hrs.
At 530 reserved minutes at 25 amps, it would be:
530 min / 60 = 8.83 hours
8.83 hr x 25 amps = 220.75 amp-hrs.
Therefore if you could drive steady on level grade at 25 battery amps for
about 4 hours or to 50% DOD, you could have about a 100 mile range.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Powers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 5:16 PM
Subject: What happened when I went to cash in on my battery warrenty
> I am posting this for the benefit of anyone else
> comtemplating getting anything other than a starting
> battery from the Wal-Mart. Maybe Sams is the same, I
> don't know, but I am guessing they use the same tools.
>
> I'm trying to get to the bottom of my battery issue.
> So, I took out the one I knew to be the worst.
> Literally, the case is warped. The plates are
> obviously warped and shorting. It failed in a very
> severe manner. But, it looks like only one of the 10
> met this fate. Maybe it sacrificed itself for the
> others, or maybe it truely had a defect from the get
> go. I always noticed since Day #1 of install that it
> lagged the others.
>
> Step #1 -
>
> I took it back to Walmart and showed them the warped
> case. I also took the other one that was sitting next
> to it. No issues with that one. So, I expected they
> would just replace it. They put it on their "tester"
> if you can call it that. Programmed it for Marine /
> deep cycle / 550 CCA / 71 degrees F. A few seconds
> later, it poped out a printout saying "good battery"
> I wasn't really surprised. The tester gave the
> battery a rating of 497 CCA out of the rated 550 CCA.
> Hey I said, that is no good. But, the printout says
> it is fine ...
>
> The other one read 527 CCA. Also somewhat degraded.
>
> So, for kicks I had him test a known bad battery that
> I took out of my original string. One that I couldn't
> even get 1 mile range out of. Put a load on it, and
> it goes to 10 V immediately. It read 639 CCA. I
> about fell over. Come on. That thing is completely
> toast, 639 CCA ... yea right!
>
> Anyway, I walked out with my severely degraded
> batteries that they refused to honor the warranty on -
> because "they are still good !?!?"
>
> So, I am going to put them back in tomorrow, drive up
> and down the big hill in my neighborhood 5-6 times and
> that will be the end of them. Then, I'm going to take
> them back when I know for sure that they are
> completely destroyed.
>
> At no point have I mistreated them. I kept them
> charged, watered, etc. Never took them over 50% DOD.
> I know for sure that at least the one with the warped
> case had to be defective - internal short of some kind
> ...
>
> Bottom line, don't buy batteries from someone who
> knows nothing about them. They won't know how to test
> them, and even when they are bad, you won't get
> replacements. All you will get is a long run around.
>
> Hope this helps someone. In the meantime, I know that
> if I want to cash in on any battery warranty at the
> Walmart, I have to be certain that they are completely
> wasted before I bring them back. I tried to do the
> right thing and treat them right. Didn't get me very
> far at all. Again all I can say is 500 lousy miles.
> I'd really like to take this up with Johnson Controls
> who made those things. I still say at least some of
> them are in fact starting batteries labeled wrong,
> labeled as deep cycle. How else could this have
> happened?
>
> In the meantime, I'm without my EV until I get this
> worked out.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone out there have a large DPST or DPDT knife switch they want to
unload cheap? I'm tinkering with controller design, and I wanted a
quick and easy battery disconnect (not for emergency). Bonus if it has
built-in fuse holders.
Not terribly impressed with the Ebay / google results for this type of item
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Eric,
You could check at www.waytekwire.com. Search
switches, automotive battery. Like part # 44093.
Jeff
--- Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anyone out there have a large DPST or DPDT knife
> switch they want to
> unload cheap? I'm tinkering with controller design,
> and I wanted a
> quick and easy battery disconnect (not for
> emergency). Bonus if it has
> built-in fuse holders.
>
> Not terribly impressed with the Ebay / google
> results for this type of item
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Opps, sorry, not DP.
Jeff
--- Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anyone out there have a large DPST or DPDT knife
> switch they want to
> unload cheap? I'm tinkering with controller design,
> and I wanted a
> quick and easy battery disconnect (not for
> emergency). Bonus if it has
> built-in fuse holders.
>
> Not terribly impressed with the Ebay / google
> results for this type of item
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Eric,
It is best to use two Anderson connectors Style SB 350 for 2/0 cable. One
connector is fix mounted, and the other connector has a attach handle for
disconnecting.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:16 AM
Subject: Wanted: Knife switch for battery disconnect
> Anyone out there have a large DPST or DPDT knife switch they want to
> unload cheap? I'm tinkering with controller design, and I wanted a
> quick and easy battery disconnect (not for emergency). Bonus if it has
> built-in fuse holders.
>
> Not terribly impressed with the Ebay / google results for this type of
> item
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric,
Roland Wiench posted a reply about cleaning battery posts and gave the
below link for parts that includes something like what you are looking
for:
"If I was to make new links, I would crimp this type of battery clamp
right on the links, but I happen to get these gold plate battery clamps
for $1.75 each from www.wirthco.com "
Alan Brinkman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 8:17 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Wanted: Knife switch for battery disconnect
Anyone out there have a large DPST or DPDT knife switch they want to
unload cheap? I'm tinkering with controller design, and I wanted a
quick and easy battery disconnect (not for emergency). Bonus if it has
built-in fuse holders.
Not terribly impressed with the Ebay / google results for this type of
item
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Anyone out there have a large DPST or DPDT knife switch they want to
unload cheap? I'm tinkering with controller design, and I wanted a
quick and easy battery disconnect (not for emergency). Bonus if it
has built-in fuse holders.
Not terribly impressed with the Ebay / google results for this type of
item
Clarification: Something suited to 120VDC and a couple hundred amps
(non-breaking) ... a whole pack.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey everyone,
After searching the archives, I didn't see anything about using
wheelchair batteries in an EV. Are they commonly deep-cycle or suited
for an EV? I saw some 50Ah AGM Diehard wheelchair batteries at Sears
for a good price. Has anyone had any experience with wheelchair
batteries?
--
Brandon Kruger
http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
http://cafepress.com/altfuel
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Walmart has a policy of paying the least for any product they sell. Many
times they sell a different product in their stores than is available
elsewhere. Costco is a far better supplier. They take product back if it
is bad. However I'm not sure what they carry. Bottom line. It might be
better to buy some real deepcycle batteries from a golfcart supply or other
comperable dealer. The 87 pound EV-145's (as I remember) from US Battery
are good deepcycle 12volt batteries. Lawrence Rhodes..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Powers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:16 PM
Subject: What happened when I went to cash in on my battery warrenty
> I am posting this for the benefit of anyone else
> comtemplating getting anything other than a starting
> battery from the Wal-Mart. Maybe Sams is the same, I
> don't know, but I am guessing they use the same tools.
>
> I'm trying to get to the bottom of my battery issue.
> So, I took out the one I knew to be the worst.
> Literally, the case is warped. The plates are
> obviously warped and shorting. It failed in a very
> severe manner. But, it looks like only one of the 10
> met this fate. Maybe it sacrificed itself for the
> others, or maybe it truely had a defect from the get
> go. I always noticed since Day #1 of install that it
> lagged the others.
>
> Step #1 -
>
> I took it back to Walmart and showed them the warped
> case. I also took the other one that was sitting next
> to it. No issues with that one. So, I expected they
> would just replace it. They put it on their "tester"
> if you can call it that. Programmed it for Marine /
> deep cycle / 550 CCA / 71 degrees F. A few seconds
> later, it poped out a printout saying "good battery"
> I wasn't really surprised. The tester gave the
> battery a rating of 497 CCA out of the rated 550 CCA.
> Hey I said, that is no good. But, the printout says
> it is fine ...
>
> The other one read 527 CCA. Also somewhat degraded.
>
> So, for kicks I had him test a known bad battery that
> I took out of my original string. One that I couldn't
> even get 1 mile range out of. Put a load on it, and
> it goes to 10 V immediately. It read 639 CCA. I
> about fell over. Come on. That thing is completely
> toast, 639 CCA ... yea right!
>
> Anyway, I walked out with my severely degraded
> batteries that they refused to honor the warranty on -
> because "they are still good !?!?"
>
> So, I am going to put them back in tomorrow, drive up
> and down the big hill in my neighborhood 5-6 times and
> that will be the end of them. Then, I'm going to take
> them back when I know for sure that they are
> completely destroyed.
>
> At no point have I mistreated them. I kept them
> charged, watered, etc. Never took them over 50% DOD.
> I know for sure that at least the one with the warped
> case had to be defective - internal short of some kind
> ...
>
> Bottom line, don't buy batteries from someone who
> knows nothing about them. They won't know how to test
> them, and even when they are bad, you won't get
> replacements. All you will get is a long run around.
>
> Hope this helps someone. In the meantime, I know that
> if I want to cash in on any battery warranty at the
> Walmart, I have to be certain that they are completely
> wasted before I bring them back. I tried to do the
> right thing and treat them right. Didn't get me very
> far at all. Again all I can say is 500 lousy miles.
> I'd really like to take this up with Johnson Controls
> who made those things. I still say at least some of
> them are in fact starting batteries labeled wrong,
> labeled as deep cycle. How else could this have
> happened?
>
> In the meantime, I'm without my EV until I get this
> worked out.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon and all,
I have seen Marine Batteries (Trojan 225's) work in EV service. Yes not the
best choice but workable under llight loads. I have run flooded batteries
to 50% DOD & they seem to take it. Is going that far with Marine too much?
Seems if a newbie has EVen a multimeter you can indeed tell depth of
discharge at least. However it sounds like these batteries were taxed in
the amp draw department. In that and EVery case the straggler will be
hammered. I agree at least an ammeter is needed so you know when you are
drawing hEaVy amps for too long. Also newbies gearup too quick. I have
found my EV loves 1st gear up to at least 30mph. 2nd 50mph. Lawrence
Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL.ORG EVDL.org" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 8:27 AM
Subject: Surplus Railway Flooded Nicads?
Wonder if there are any of these flooded nicads, in a
surplus market yet? Anyone work for a railway?
Yeah! Guilty! We has some nicads as car lighting on Metro North and
Amtrak. Wasn't impressed with the lighting ones. Seems we would have alota
people sitting in the dark when the power was off any length of time. But
that may have been the mantality of the car designers?Cheep out on
something like that. Like White Star line's (Titanic)thoughts on enough
lifeboats on an unthinkable ship?
Most if not all Diseasel and electric SLI batteries were monster packs,
alot like fork truck packs; I didn't just pick them up and toss in the
battery box! Used a forktruck to change out badd-eries! Batteries lived in
the belly of the beast(engine) until they wouldn't crank the diesel,
anymore. Then out came the jumper cables! Really, seemingly miles of two
ought cables and clipleads to connect to the big knife switches to the
battery packs. EVery Diseasel lokie has zorched up knife switches from mis
connected jumper cables. Having the damn cables MARKED would take the sport
out of it, I guess??Ya get a nice 120 volt short circus if you don't get
polarity right. A VOM could help you get polarity right, IF you had one
handy? I used to see DRY Led acids, come in off the road! Refil with a hose.
RR wasn't gunna pop for distilled water!Reset the voltage regulater on the
charger so as to NOT cook all the water out. As RR's are reluctent to shut
down Diseasels because it MAY not start again! Healthy ones start up
enthusiasticly, better than many autos!Some of the older, ALCO's had a
compression relief for easy cranking, then you threw the compression on and
she fired up. Embarissing to tell the train dispatcher that you couldn't
START the locomotive, there will be a delay til we can hunt down some jumper
cables! My Rabbit had started up a few Amtrak F-40's in its lifetime!Hook
the jumpers up to the contactor controller step on the juice to 60 volts,
popsicle stick in the motor contactor, have the guy in the lokie hit the
starter, and she fires up, only a few hundred amps, less than I use doing
brakestands!Ah fond RR ,memories!As I was probably carrying around as much
AMP hours as a lokie battery?
Those Nicads are probably hidiously expensive? Afraid to ask. Railroads
are a very expensive hobby in one-foot-to-the-foot scale!And you thought G
gage stuff was expensive? Price out some RR parts and stuff.No wonder
Amtrak's fares are so high!Buy a wheelset, a brake cylinder rebuild kit, a
windshield, a coupler. Yikes!A 480 volt HEP Jumper!THOUSANDS of bux. No
wonder I used to hang around RR junking sites. Often they just park unloved
and unwanted stuff in the train yard, until they auction it off. Junk guyz
come in and cut it up and truck it away! This takes time and you "Help" the
process, when the guyz knock off for the day<g>!Cables, contactors, diodes
lottsa fun stuff! Back in the daze BEFORE China bought everything in sight
junkwise you could buy lokies and cars at fire sale prices where is, as is.
I coulda had a X- New Haven self propelled MU parlor car for 300 bux! But
then YOU have to REMOVE it from their , the RR's property. No, you DON'T
stuff it in your Rabbit and take it home. At 70 tons, plus??!! You don't
DRIVE it home as chances are it won't RUN anymore, too.If you are serious,
Yes, I have friends, that DO collect RR stuff!You rent a siding and have the
freight RR switch it in there for you. Hoping the local urchens don't bust
out your plate glass windows? Break in and rob your copper wiring. I COULD
have bought the last few surviving Budd Amtrak RDC cars, for 800 bux a copy,
and they DID run! As an Amtrak Engineer, I probably COULD have driven them
most of the way home?! Nearest trax to home are 7 miles away<g>!Nice sidings
down there.
E CARS are easier to keep and work on, be glad you can do without
collecting RR equipment, and have a happy, forfilling life!
In training
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would add to the book list:
"Electric Dreams: One Unlikely Team of Kids and The Race to Build the
Car of the Future" by
Caroline Kettlewell. This is more of a (recent) history type book
rather than strictly a how-to, but I thought a very good story and
right in my backyard in NC. One of the teachers in the book, Harold
Miller, came to one of our TEAA meetings and gave us lots of practical
advice. This book is where I got my sometimes email trailer "That
car has some get-up-and go and it don't make no racket." -Richard
Petty
>> I know that there are a lot that should be added, some how to, some
>> why to, and some just history.
--- End Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
Brandon,
I think that it matters as far as how they calculate the AH
rating for the battery. I looked on ebay and found a 75AH battery, a
GPS12-270 (ebay item# 170121113254). It looks to me like this is either
a gel cell or a sealed lead acid. I wonder if they consider it a 75AH
battery by the C20 rating or a different one. If it is a gell cell it
might not stand up well to heavy current draw.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brandon Kruger
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 12:24
To: EV list
Subject: Wheelchair batteries
Hey everyone,
After searching the archives, I didn't see anything about using
wheelchair batteries in an EV. Are they commonly deep-cycle or suited
for an EV? I saw some 50Ah AGM Diehard wheelchair batteries at Sears
for a good price. Has anyone had any experience with wheelchair
batteries?
--
Brandon Kruger
http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
http://cafepress.com/altfuel
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow!
I'd love to have a prius that was restored to "normal," with one of those
ad-on battery packs (that make it go 40-miles on electric).
Some comments however, seem to indicate that the prius has something like
a 40mph top speed in electric due to gearing.
How badly was it damaged?
What kind of wreck? (head on, I guess?)
How did you get it? from a Salvage yard, or from "someone you know at an
insurance company?"
Thanks!!
Ed Cooley
Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
06/18/2007 09:01
Please respond to
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To
Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
cc
Subject
Prius conversion
As I pick away at the rebuild of my '04 Salvage Prius, I cannot help
but think about pulling out the ICE and making it a pure EV with more
batteries.
We all pine for the inexpensive EV parts that are rare, given the
volume of the current market and here is Toyota cranking out all
these AC EV parts.
As I look for replacement used parts, it is amazing how reasonable
their battery packs (albeit small), inverters and motor/transaxle
units are.\ on the used market.
These are the basics for some great DIY projects, aren't they? If you
add in the aerodynamics of the Prius and the fact that they seem to
run 150-250wh/mile, it seems reasonable (at least to me!) that they
will become the source of our antics on this list as they get a
little age on them.
So far, I am into this rebuild, which is an '04 with 14K on it, $4900
for the unit, $2600 for bits (including new airbags) and probably
have another grand to go. This will be a rebuilt title, with the body
work being done by someone who knows what they are doing. We spend
more than this on a lot of our
EV projects.
Just seems that between what Toyota and Honda have been putting out,
IF we can get by some of the re-programming issues, we will have a
wealth of EV parts that are already road tested. That '04 drive motor
is 50kw. That's not bad for an EV that only needs 150-250 wh/mile.
Tom in Maine
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if someone could get one of the TESLA battery packs and put it
into a PRIUS then hack the computer to allow it to run on all electric
for a while and see how far it would go. My bet it would go at least
100 miles or so.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 13:21
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Prius conversion
Wow!
I'd love to have a prius that was restored to "normal," with one of
those ad-on battery packs (that make it go 40-miles on electric).
Some comments however, seem to indicate that the prius has something
like a 40mph top speed in electric due to gearing.
How badly was it damaged?
What kind of wreck? (head on, I guess?)
How did you get it? from a Salvage yard, or from "someone you know at an
insurance company?"
Thanks!!
Ed Cooley
Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
06/18/2007 09:01
Please respond to
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To
Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
cc
Subject
Prius conversion
As I pick away at the rebuild of my '04 Salvage Prius, I cannot help
but think about pulling out the ICE and making it a pure EV with more
batteries.
We all pine for the inexpensive EV parts that are rare, given the
volume of the current market and here is Toyota cranking out all
these AC EV parts.
As I look for replacement used parts, it is amazing how reasonable
their battery packs (albeit small), inverters and motor/transaxle
units are.\ on the used market.
These are the basics for some great DIY projects, aren't they? If you
add in the aerodynamics of the Prius and the fact that they seem to
run 150-250wh/mile, it seems reasonable (at least to me!) that they
will become the source of our antics on this list as they get a
little age on them.
So far, I am into this rebuild, which is an '04 with 14K on it, $4900
for the unit, $2600 for bits (including new airbags) and probably
have another grand to go. This will be a rebuilt title, with the body
work being done by someone who knows what they are doing. We spend
more than this on a lot of our
EV projects.
Just seems that between what Toyota and Honda have been putting out,
IF we can get by some of the re-programming issues, we will have a
wealth of EV parts that are already road tested. That '04 drive motor
is 50kw. That's not bad for an EV that only needs 150-250 wh/mile.
Tom in Maine
--- End Message ---
