EV Digest 6916

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: newbie questions on resources
        by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Google presses for 100 MPG vehicle
        by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: High Speed Electric Winch
        by trev scribby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: Solectria Force Contactor?
        by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: 'Petrol and diesel are dead,' says GM
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  6) Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.
        by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: High Speed Electric Winch
        by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: High Speed Electric Winch
        by trev scribby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Manly EV's,  RE: EV are for girls blog
        by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Max motor temperatures and temp sender install
        by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: High Speed Electric Winch
        by trev scribby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) AWD Conversions?
        by "John A. Evans - N0HJ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: newbie questions on resources
        by "John A. Evans - N0HJ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: newbie questions on resources
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: newbie questions on resources
        by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Max motor temperatures and temp sender install
        by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Throw it out with the trans!!, Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.
        by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: AWD Conversions?
        by Joseph Tahbaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
I don't think any conversion will be able to go up steep, long hills at
55mph and go 80 miles in the same trip.  You would need a very powerful
motor and go over the gvw of the S-10 in batteries.  You're range
requirement is definitely doable, but if you are going up the foothills
here in Colorado, your speed will be lower and the range reduced.  
I think the electric rangers and RAV EVs are close to what you want.
They use an AC system, but I doubt they could keep up 55mph up long
hills.

> Stephen Paschke 
> DAR, ERISA, Plan Review, and IPI/ICTMS support, 
>TIAA-CREF Denver
> Senior Consultant 
> Keane, Inc. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John A. Evans - N0HJ
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:50 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: newbie questions on resources

Greetings all,

  I've read Brant's book and am wondering what is out there that is more

current to help me decide what components to use.  I've seen all the S10

conversions, including Mike Phillip's S10 which is actually local to me,

but have determined that I need a combination with a bit more range AND 
power to get up the hills here in Colorado Springs.  I could live with 
perhaps 60-80 mile range as long as I can get up the hills at a speed 
around 55 mph.  I suspect the big issue would be battery choice.  I have

no desire to do long distances nor speed races, but just need something 
a little beyond the basic conversion.

  So, what are folks doing to address these basic issues today versus 10

years ago?  Any pointers, links, references would be appreciated.

thanks,
john

********************************************************************************************
This message, including any attachments, contains confidential information 
intended 
for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not 
the intended 
recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy 
all copies.
You are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this 
message, or
the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.

TIAA-CREF
********************************************************************************************

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
           Hi Ed and All,

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Google presses for 100 MPG vehicle
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:51:44 -0400

>This is outstanding news - I can only hope that local
>automakers/designers  will take notice...and actually do
>something. 

       Yes it is. Now if I could just find out who to
contact for those grants!! If I could afford real workers
things would go faster!!


Chevrolet has already screwed up. Gasoline is
>$3+ a gallon NOW.  Waiting  until 2010 to begin
>production.... (insane). If the "Volt" were available at a
>"reasonable" price, I might be  interested. 

         There is no reason the Volt couldn't be done with
Hawkers , Orbitals or Yt lead batts!! In fact, the only way
they can do it at a reasonable cost now. Done like the 
GM Ultra-lite showcar only in medium tech composites instead
of carbon fiber, it would only take 8-10 of AGM's due to
lightweight, low aero, rolling drag. If they just charged
for rebuilding the batts as little new material is needed,
replacements would be very reasonable.
         It would also help if they got away from steel
bodies to lower costs though lower car weight, parts count,
drasticly lower tooling costs. It cost $1Bill to tool a new
steel car!!
         I don't mind GM calling the ICE dead as long as
they come out with them in the Volt style until the Fool
Cell is ready. The truth is the Volt 40 mile range EV set up
is the only way Fool cells will ever be practical as they
can use a 1/5=1/10 the size, cost one vs no batteries and a
bigger fool cell for meet peak power demands as they were
going for before. By letting the batteries take those
demands, they can make it much smaller, cheaper though I
believe an ICE can always be more eff overall than a fool
cell!! So what's the point of the costly fool cell?
        


Instead, I'm
>converting a vehicle myself (as are many of us). I won't
>need the "Volt" - or anything else these folks might come
>up with,  because my vehicle will be paid for.
>Hard to compare a working vehicle thats paid for with one
>you're making  300+ a month payments on ...
>(unless you just *have to have* that new-upholstery and
>shiny new  paint-job).

         Many do!!
         I built and drove my last EV for 10 yrs for $1,000
all costs included! So inexpensive EV's can be easily done
in 2-3-4 wheels if you are willing to learn and do from
almost or scratch.

>
>
>
>I find the entire term "100mpg plug in hybrid" misleading.
>
>The energy costs of electricity, while less than that of
>gasoline, isn't  free, but isn't included in this "100mpg"
>claim.
>
>To say the vehicle gets 100mpg (or whatever) - ignoring the
>cost of the  electricity, is disingenuous.

         Not really. The Prius gets about 200wthrs/mile
which costs $.02/mile at the average US electric cost of
$.10 so on grid power a plug in hybrid would get about
150mpg cost wise averaged with 50 mpg gas depending on how
much a given person uses, come around 125 mpg as the plug in
power is always used first. With a 40 mile battery pack that
would mean many may only use a tank of gas in a yr!!!  
         Energy wise about 50-200mpg depending on electric
source eff, average US about 100mpg worth now.
                               Jerry Dycus
>
>Another way would be to calculate the "fuel costs" of
>electricy, convert  that to gallons (um, I don't know how
>to do that) - then say, I'm getting  the *equivalent* of
>70mpg (or whatever). I'd like to see how this "electric
>conversion to gallons" process would  work out....
>
>Thoughts?
>
>
>Ed Cooley
>
>
>
>
>"Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>06/19/2007 10:13
>
>Subject
>Google presses for 100 MPG vehicle
>
>It makes for interesting reading.
>
>Some people at Google are also tired of waiting for Big
>Auto and Big Gov't 
>
>to pull their collective heads out.
>
>http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/19/news/economy/google_plugin/index.htm?cnn=yes
>
>
>Rich A.
>Maryland

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Below is the power curve for a Honda 9HP motor, i have
the "overseas-ebay equivalent". Not sure exactly how
to read the chart, but hopefully you guys can help. 

http://www.trupower.com/honda/270/gxperg270.gif

Also,
Here is my 2nd draft of the electric winch. Still just
basic stuff. I love to do drawings.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n313/shoredrivevb/Electric-Winch-2nd-Draft.jpg

Trying to figure out the bare minimums to pull a 200lb
rider 1000ft across the water at 19-27mph. So, after
this project, I have been eying a very nice
continental, suicide doors and a big trunk for plenty
of batteries...one thing at a time though  :)

thanks a lot!!

trevor scribner
757-285-4469

--- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Jun 7, 2007, at 9:17 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
> 
> > What about these types of motors on eBay?
> >
> > 250125996676
> >
> > I've got a similar motor that's 600 watts on my
> bike. I believe you  
> > can drive these with 36V too for more power. Built
> in controller!
> 
> 300 watts is well under 1 HP. 9 HP would be around
> 7000 watts.
> 
> Somewhere the power curves should be available for
> the ICE motors  
> that are being used. If they are operated wide open
> throttle then the  
> power curves plus determining the rpm they are being
> operated at  
> would provide a very good idea how much power is
> actually required.  
> RPM and actual power being used would really help
> nail down the size  
> of electric motor needed.
> 
> Paul "neon" G.
> 
> 



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato? 
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 19 Jun 2007 at 12:37, Dale Ulan wrote:

> I have two of the larger BRLS-16's and I thought a pair of those 
> would be about right in a Geo, not a single BRLS-11.

I think it would be fair to say that James Worden wasn't particularly 
interested in burning rubber with Solectria's EVs.  He was much more keen 
on squeezing out another percentage point or two of efficiency, and I'd guess 
that he also wanted to keep the prices from getting too unreasonable.


> Didn't the later ones use a single-speed gearbox and their
> AC system? Was their AC system any more reliable than the
> brushless DC units?

I don't know about "later."  I own Solectria Force #1, and it has an AC 
induction drive with a single speed gearbox.

I believe that the DC motor cars were produced for a year or two alongside 
the AC cars as a lower cost alternative, but Beth Silverman of Azure may 
have some better historical data on that.  

I got the impression that not many of the DC cars were sold, but your 
experience may suggest otherwise.

At one time, I had some early literature from Solectria which described both 
the AC and DC Force models in some detail.  Regrettably, I can't find it now; 
I hope I haven't discarded it.  IIRC, the DC cars used the original Metro 
manual transaxle, while the AC cars were fitted with a lightweight custom 
single-speed gearbox.

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<chuckle> What a joke. GM will support fuel cell cars until the day they
have to pay their own research.

On Tue, June 19, 2007 7:30 am, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>> From The ET LIST.
>>
>
> Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cleannewworld
> Date: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:50 pm ((PDT))
>
>
> "Petrol and diesel are dead," says GM
> 11 June 2007
>
>
> http://www.celsias.com/blog/2007/06/16/gm-scorns-internal-combustion-engi
> ne/#comment-32078 http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/225989
>  http://www.hugg.com/story/GM-Scorns-Internal-Combustion-Engine
>
>
> General Motors is determined to "remove the car from the environment and
> energy debate" in the next 10 years by doing away with the internal
> combustion engine altogether.
>
> The world's second largest car company now views hydrogen fuel cell power
> as the "the end game," according to its director of advanced technology
> vehicle concepts Dr Christopher Borroni-Bird.
>
> Using internal combustion engines is no longer an option, and that
> includes diesels and hybrids.
>
> "Hybrids are not a solution," he said. "They just delay the day of
> reckoning. The debate about hybrids being cleaner than diesel is irrelevant
> - the diesel is a dead end because it uses fossil fuels."
>
>
> Dr Borroni-Bird said that hydrogen-powered and electric cars would
> develop alongside each other, and that GM would have a "cost-effective"
> fuel cell car by 2010. It will trial 100 fuel cell Equinox SUVs across the
> world in a market test for the car.
>
> GM's first hydrogen production car
>
>
> Dr Borroni-Bird is part of a team accelerating development of GM's
> Chevrolet
> Volt concept car in an attempt to get it into production by 2010. Last
> week the company announced it has signed contracts to begin development of
> new high-performance lithium ion batteries, vital to getting an electric
> car with a useable range to market.
>
> But there is no guarantee that these batteries will be ready for use in a
>  production car in three years. Despite this risk, GM is willing to risk
> spending millions on developing a car that may not have a viable
> propulsion system by the time its ready to go on sale.
>
> Part of GM's strategy is to complete the "electrification" of the car,
> replacing mechanical systems with electrical ones such as by-wire braking
> and steering. These save weight and cut fuel use, and are significantly
> cheaper and easier to fit if the car itself is electrically driven.
>
> This idea, although not exclusive to GM, was previewed in the Autonomy
> and Hywire concepts, and opens up possibilities for car development that
> just don't exist in those powered by the combustion engine. Electric
> brakes and steering can be easily and quickly retuned to individual
> customer requirements, for example. "These vehicles aren't just good for
> the environment," said Dr Borroni-Bird. "They help make the car better."
>
> But GM does not want to be drawn into the debate over producing
> electricity and hydrogen cleanly. "We will build a car that runs on
> renewable energy, but it's not our responsibility to produce the fuels,"
> said a GM spokesman.
>
> Dan Stevens
>
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One reason people like to go clutchless is to save weight.

One idea is to keep the clutch but have the ring gear removed off the flywheel. That may save a little weight. Maybe drilling it out would save some weight as well.

Also for the newbies, while the flywheel is off have it balanced at a machine shop and you can also have the ring gear removed at the same time.

I helped install a clutchless system on a friends Fiero EV a few years ago. In driving the car there is that couple second time in switching the gears. After you get used to it, it's not too bad. But I personally prefer the clutch.

But Bill does bring up some interesting points. The clutch system does offer the value of having a somewhat flexible connection between the tranny and the motor which absorbs road vibration. Something to consider.

Chip


On Jun 19, 2007, at 1:14 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:

From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: June 19, 2007 6:25:18 PM EDT
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.


The bad thing about removing the clutch from the system is that you also remove the springs in the center of the clutch. You are also removing the torque-peak-limiting feature of the clutch. They put those springs in there for a good reason.

When you go over a pot hole or railroad tracks, HUGE torque spikes travel backwards through the drive train. The clutch center springs and the clutch itself greatly reduce and limit these torque peaks.

If you eliminate the clutch (and its springs) you will shorten the life of the transmission and differential gears significantly. The torque peaks will fatigue the gear teeth and they will chip and fail. The bearings won't like it much either.

        Bill Dube'

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have seen something similar in Orlando, FL.  It was more like a
circular t-bar ski lift. You would go around in a large circle and
several people could ski or kneeboard at once. In the center of the
small lake/large pond was a circle of poles around a circular dock with
arms which carried the cable.  It has been about 7 years so my memory is
a little foggy regarding this.  I don't know what powered it.

> Stephen Paschke 
> DAR, ERISA, Plan Review, and IPI/ICTMS support, 
>TIAA-CREF Denver
> Senior Consultant 
> Keane, Inc. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of trev scribby
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:55 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: High Speed Electric Winch

Below is the power curve for a Honda 9HP motor, i have
the "overseas-ebay equivalent". Not sure exactly how
to read the chart, but hopefully you guys can help. 

http://www.trupower.com/honda/270/gxperg270.gif

Also,
Here is my 2nd draft of the electric winch. Still just
basic stuff. I love to do drawings.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n313/shoredrivevb/Electric-Winch-2nd-
Draft.jpg

Trying to figure out the bare minimums to pull a 200lb
rider 1000ft across the water at 19-27mph. So, after
this project, I have been eying a very nice
continental, suicide doors and a big trunk for plenty
of batteries...one thing at a time though  :)

thanks a lot!!

trevor scribner
757-285-4469

--- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Jun 7, 2007, at 9:17 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
> 
> > What about these types of motors on eBay?
> >
> > 250125996676
> >
> > I've got a similar motor that's 600 watts on my
> bike. I believe you  
> > can drive these with 36V too for more power. Built
> in controller!
> 
> 300 watts is well under 1 HP. 9 HP would be around
> 7000 watts.
> 
> Somewhere the power curves should be available for
> the ICE motors  
> that are being used. If they are operated wide open
> throttle then the  
> power curves plus determining the rpm they are being
> operated at  
> would provide a very good idea how much power is
> actually required.  
> RPM and actual power being used would really help
> nail down the size  
> of electric motor needed.
> 
> Paul "neon" G.
> 
> 



       
________________________________________________________________________
____________
Got a little couch potato? 
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+ki
ds&cs=bz 

********************************************************************************************
This message, including any attachments, contains confidential information 
intended 
for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not 
the intended 
recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy 
all copies.
You are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this 
message, or
the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.

TIAA-CREF
********************************************************************************************

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, http://www.orlandowatersports.com 
Its called a Cable Park. Been going there about once a
year for the past 7 or 8 years. Super fun place. I
have no clue what they use though,
http://www.cablewakeboard.com proly has all the motor
details, i will get on it. Of course that is a
permanent fixture, running all day everyday, i am
working with some people in elizabeth city, nc on
building one there. Its the most fun ever!! I built a
site for them just this morning, check it out: 
http://www.aeromedic.com/Elizabethcitycablepark/header.html





--- "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have seen something similar in Orlando, FL.  It
> was more like a
> circular t-bar ski lift. You would go around in a
> large circle and
> several people could ski or kneeboard at once. In
> the center of the
> small lake/large pond was a circle of poles around a
> circular dock with
> arms which carried the cable.  It has been about 7
> years so my memory is
> a little foggy regarding this.  I don't know what
> powered it.
> 
> > Stephen Paschke 
> > DAR, ERISA, Plan Review, and IPI/ICTMS support, 
> >TIAA-CREF Denver
> > Senior Consultant 
> > Keane, Inc. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of trev scribby
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:55 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: High Speed Electric Winch
> 
> Below is the power curve for a Honda 9HP motor, i
> have
> the "overseas-ebay equivalent". Not sure exactly how
> to read the chart, but hopefully you guys can help. 
> 
> http://www.trupower.com/honda/270/gxperg270.gif
> 
> Also,
> Here is my 2nd draft of the electric winch. Still
> just
> basic stuff. I love to do drawings.
> 
>
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n313/shoredrivevb/Electric-Winch-2nd-
> Draft.jpg
> 
> Trying to figure out the bare minimums to pull a
> 200lb
> rider 1000ft across the water at 19-27mph. So, after
> this project, I have been eying a very nice
> continental, suicide doors and a big trunk for
> plenty
> of batteries...one thing at a time though  :)
> 
> thanks a lot!!
> 
> trevor scribner
> 757-285-4469
> 
> --- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > On Jun 7, 2007, at 9:17 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
> > 
> > > What about these types of motors on eBay?
> > >
> > > 250125996676
> > >
> > > I've got a similar motor that's 600 watts on my
> > bike. I believe you  
> > > can drive these with 36V too for more power.
> Built
> > in controller!
> > 
> > 300 watts is well under 1 HP. 9 HP would be around
> > 7000 watts.
> > 
> > Somewhere the power curves should be available for
> > the ICE motors  
> > that are being used. If they are operated wide
> open
> > throttle then the  
> > power curves plus determining the rpm they are
> being
> > operated at  
> > would provide a very good idea how much power is
> > actually required.  
> > RPM and actual power being used would really help
> > nail down the size  
> > of electric motor needed.
> > 
> > Paul "neon" G.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>        
>
________________________________________________________________________
> ____________
> Got a little couch potato? 
> Check out fun summer activities for kids.
>
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+ki
> ds&cs=bz 
> 
>
********************************************************************************************
> This message, including any attachments, contains
> confidential information intended 
> for a specific individual and purpose, and is
> protected by law. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please contact the sender immediately by
> reply e-mail and destroy all copies.
> You are hereby notified that any disclosure,
> copying, or distribution of this message, or
> the taking of any action based on it, is strictly
> prohibited.
> 
> TIAA-CREF
>
********************************************************************************************
> 
> 



     
____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in
alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green
Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ 


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search 
that gives answers, not web links. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
           Hi Damon and All,


----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: EV are for girls blog
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:04:50 +0000

>Well sure Jerry, there is the giiiiirly way of doing things
>, and then there  is the MANNNNNLY way :-)

      Depends on what you call manly!  I think 2 big
hairy,uh, motors to a diff with a Zilla in a 914/Karman
Ghia, Factory Five Cobra Coupe kitcar is manly in it's own
lean, mean, smart mans way ;^P 
      Do you really think the White Zombie would be faster
with a trans? 
      Of course if you want to kulge things together with
the added weight, drag of a trans/clutch and it's less
range, speed, more hassle, larger battery, EV drive to carry
the extra weight, drag and the larger drives, battery weight
too is more caveman manly. Less really is more in many
cases!
      And before you say the 2 motors weigh more, consider 2
ES-21's/A89's will beat the stuff out of an 8" at less
weight and cost with much more torque, cont, peak power  ;^D
 
     Since D+D makes each of their motors custom for you at
under $500 each, you can get custom windings, double shafts
to mate twin motors easily together and to a diff in any
size 6.7" from them. Since I'm going belt drive, I'll just
put mine nose to nose and belt off the middle.
      As my yrs sailing at sea in small boats and building
boats has taught me, actually beat into me, finesse is the
best way by far, not brute strength in most everything. In
EV's, it gives you extra range, acceleration, top speed for
less money, pollution, energy, work!! Your choice ;^D 
                             KIS,
                              Your somewhat manly friend,
                                     Jerry Dycus

>
>
>>From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>Subject: EV are for girls blog
>>Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:01:12 -0500
>>
>>
>>           Hi All,
>>               I came across this blog and it is pretty
>>good. Even she knew to chose a light, aero EV glider and
>>EV's don't need a clutch/transmission, John and Madman!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.electric-cars-are-for-girls.com/build-your-own.
>>html 
>>                              Jerry Dycus
> 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*         ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---            *
*     This post contains a forbidden message format       *
*  (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting)  *
*       Lists at  sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT         *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting  *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
....and some more specs on my gasser:

http://www.trupower.com/honda/270/270spec.htm

thanks again!




--- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Jun 7, 2007, at 9:17 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
> 
> > What about these types of motors on eBay?
> >
> > 250125996676
> >
> > I've got a similar motor that's 600 watts on my
> bike. I believe you  
> > can drive these with 36V too for more power. Built
> in controller!
> 
> 300 watts is well under 1 HP. 9 HP would be around
> 7000 watts.
> 
> Somewhere the power curves should be available for
> the ICE motors  
> that are being used. If they are operated wide open
> throttle then the  
> power curves plus determining the rpm they are being
> operated at  
> would provide a very good idea how much power is
> actually required.  
> RPM and actual power being used would really help
> nail down the size  
> of electric motor needed.
> 
> Paul "neon" G.
> 
> 



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car 
Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Greetings,

One more question and then I'll crawl back in my hole. If I didn't obtain an S10 or Ranger for conversion, I might consider using my 92 Subaru Legacy wagon. I think it could be beefed up for carrying the battery load and seems reasonably aerodynamic. I would need to deal with installing a standard transmission or providing an alternate drive train connection, but my main question has to do with the All Wheel Drive in the Subaru's.

Has anyone done an EV conversion with an AWD vehicle? Would I be losing a lot in the AWD mechanism? Have folks had success converting the AWD to, say, front or rear wheel drive? Using my existing vehicle would go a long way to finance this conversion, but if it is a big mistake, I will throw away that option.

tnx,
john

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the response. I guess I should have prioritized my desires/requirements. Range is foremost at the top of the list. I live in Black Forest, a plateau covered in Ponderosa Pines and about 1000-1500 feet higher than the surrounding area, including Colorado Springs. Anywhere I might need to drive to is 1) a good 20 minutes from where I am located and 2) around 1500 feet lower. I think about typical hilly trips I make with my car and the furthest is to the south side of town (Peterson AFB) about 19 miles one way plus maybe a trip to the Air Force Academy - maybe 12 miles of driving (downhill then uphill a bit, and then returning the way I came). That also means that my trips inevitably end up going uphill to return home. In my case, I think I'd need extra elbow room in the range department, for sure. Mike Phillips used to live in Black Forest so perhaps location was one factor that delayed his conversion project.

None of my trips would be up into the mountains, but the front range hills can be varied. One thing I will do is research routes that may be longer but less hilly and use my GPS to map out the elevation profiles. I don't mind going slower to get to/from my destinations, but some trips are on two lane roads where I know I might back folks up for a bit, hence my "need" for a bit more power going uphill.

I may try to visit Mike Phillips, if he is receptive and has time, to see just what kind of hills slow him down to 30 mph.

Sincerely,
John Evans

Paschke, Stephen wrote:
Hi John,
I don't think any conversion will be able to go up steep, long hills at
55mph and go 80 miles in the same trip....

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John,

For about 9 years, I drove up a 2 mile long hill that range from 5 to a 7 
percent grade here in Montana.  The vehicle weigh 7850 lbs at the time, 
which about 3400 lbs of that was A 300 AH 180 volt cobalt battery.

I normally took a run up to 70 mph which was a slight down hill run before I 
approach this hill.  I was be able to hold the speed at 60 mph and exit at 
the exit speed limit.

My motor ampere would peak to 600 amps at one point on this hill for about 
10 seconds and it would come down to about 300 amps for the rest of the run 
of 2 miles.

Coming down this hill, was something else,  we had no speed limit at the 
time, and I just let the vehicle go at speed, which would get up to 85 mph 
on the down hill run.  Passing up a lot of vehicles and was be able to coast 
2 miles down this hill and another 3 miles through a uphill exit and then 
down another hill for another mile right into my garage.

To be able to do this feat, I had a overall gear ratio of about 20:1 in 1st 
gear, a 13:1 in 2nd gear to 50 mph and then a 5.57:1 in 3rd gear with a top 
speed of 91 mph using a 11.5 inch GE motor with commentator windings.

The motor also had a large external blower with air filters.  The controller 
also had a large 6 inch diameter blower fan too that is rated at 600 cfm. 
Most of the time, the motor and controller temperature only got 10 to 20 
degrees over ambient air temperature.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John A. Evans - N0HJ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:50 AM
Subject: newbie questions on resources


> Greetings all,
>
>   I've read Brant's book and am wondering what is out there that is more
> current to help me decide what components to use.  I've seen all the S10
> conversions, including Mike Phillip's S10 which is actually local to me,
> but have determined that I need a combination with a bit more range AND
> power to get up the hills here in Colorado Springs.  I could live with
> perhaps 60-80 mile range as long as I can get up the hills at a speed
> around 55 mph.  I suspect the big issue would be battery choice.  I have
> no desire to do long distances nor speed races, but just need something
> a little beyond the basic conversion.
>
>   So, what are folks doing to address these basic issues today versus 10
> years ago?  Any pointers, links, references would be appreciated.
>
> thanks,
> john
>
> 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know the area a little.   You should be able to accomplish your goals.
Those hills aren't too bad.  Talking with Mike is a great idea.

> Stephen Paschke 
> DAR, ERISA, Plan Review, and IPI/ICTMS support, 
>TIAA-CREF Denver
> Senior Consultant 
> Keane, Inc. 
> Office 303-607-2993 
> Cell 303-204-9280
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John A. Evans - N0HJ
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 2:42 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: newbie questions on resources

Hi Stephen,

  Thanks for the response.  I guess I should have prioritized my 
desires/requirements.  Range is foremost at the top of the list.  I live

in Black Forest, a plateau covered in Ponderosa Pines and about 
1000-1500 feet higher than the surrounding area, including Colorado 
Springs.  Anywhere I might need to drive to is 1) a good 20 minutes from

where I am located and 2) around 1500 feet lower.  I think about typical

hilly trips I make with my car and the furthest is to the south side of 
town (Peterson AFB) about 19 miles one way plus maybe a trip to the Air 
Force Academy - maybe 12 miles of driving (downhill then uphill a bit, 
and then returning the way I came).  That also means that my trips 
inevitably end up going uphill to return home.  In my case, I think I'd 
need extra elbow room in the range department, for sure.  Mike Phillips 
used to live in Black Forest so perhaps location was one factor that 
delayed his conversion project.

  None of my trips would be up into the mountains, but the front range 
hills can be varied.  One thing I will do is research routes that may be

longer but less hilly and use my GPS to map out the elevation profiles.

I don't mind going slower to get to/from my destinations, but some trips

are on two lane roads where I know I might back folks up for a bit, 
hence my "need" for a bit more power going uphill.

  I may try to visit Mike Phillips, if he is receptive and has time, to 
see just what kind of hills slow him down to 30 mph.

Sincerely,
John Evans

Paschke, Stephen wrote:
> Hi John,
> I don't think any conversion will be able to go up steep, long hills
at
> 55mph and go 80 miles in the same trip....

********************************************************************************************
This message, including any attachments, contains confidential information 
intended 
for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not 
the intended 
recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy 
all copies.
You are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this 
message, or
the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.

TIAA-CREF
********************************************************************************************

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks guys for all the explanation.

Someone pointed out that there are pigtails for a warning light. I didn't notice them before but I found mine. I'm going to run a warning light to the dash.

It was 95F here today. I can still touch my controller and I can still touch the motor but not for long! The warning light will give me some control over the situation.

I've also rigged a scoop to catch air into the engine compartment while I drive. I'm not sure if it's working though.

Rich

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! http://mobile.msn.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a bit of a learning curve to deal with since the slightest
touch of throttle will product motion without the clutch dis-engaged
or trans in neutral.  This caught me off guarrd several times.  me

On 6/19/07, jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

            Hi John, Rich and All,
                 You both know perfectly well the best
thing is to throw away both the clutch and transmission and
go direct drive to a diff, belt or chain reduction,
preferably with 2 motors series/parallel!
                  Almost all EV's ever produced have not
had a transmission with it's weight, drag, just a single
reduction gear. I think they are onto something! No?

                            Jerry Dycus

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 07:59:04 -0700

>Geez folks..welcome to Back yard engineering!!
>
>I spent a few grand years ago to ditch clutcheless EV
>driving..
>
>Your Guys are playing with low power EVs and can deal with
>funky hard to operate vehicles.
>
>Keep the clutch!!!! Then anyone can drive it.
>
>This is so like 1992 for me.
>Yea it works... If you like to drive Franenstien level EV.
>
>Come folks... I shift in milliseconds..just like everybody
>Else with a real car and tranny.
>
>Keep the clutchless EV to those that can't afford to do it
>right in the first place.
>
>Been there done that.. won't go back.
>Got a 4 puck copper plate in Goldie
>And a 8  puck sintered plate in the Fiero.
>
>
>Madman
>
>



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*         ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---            *
*     This post contains a forbidden message format       *
*  (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting)  *
*       Lists at  sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT         *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting  *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

--- End Message ---

Reply via email to