EV Digest 6953
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: How low can you go?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Custom Gears
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Understanding my motor (ADC L91 & X91 6.7" motors revisited)
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Electrical/Mechanical Engineering
by "Deanne Mott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Make it
by "Michael Wendell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EVgrin - RAVolt takes first EV trip
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Understanding my motor (ADC L91 & X91 6.7" motors revisited)
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Make it
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Cheap
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS & RE: Make It
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Make it
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Custom Gears
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: vroombox and EV ?
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: vroombox and EV ?
by Jerry Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Electrical/Mechanical Engineering
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Anderson disassembly (AKA Duh ...)
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Anderson disassembly (AKA Duh ...)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Custom Gears
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Make it
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Chances of working for an Auto Company
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: DC/AC converter (EV to Grid/Home)
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: VOLTS vs AMPS
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Chances of working for an Auto Company
by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Anderson disassembly (AKA Duh ...)
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Chances of working for an Auto Company
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: regarding the Solectria Sunrise
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
29) Re: Make it
by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: Ultimate magnetic motor design
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
You can set the LBVI in the option menu for about 5 volts higher then what
you set the LBV, which will give you a advance warning that you are in with
of the low voltage limit.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: How low can you go?
> Thanks, Chris and Lee for the confirmation.
> My Zilla was set to 110 Volts for the low battery volts (LBV). That
> would allow 8.46 volts per battery if pushed with a low SOC. So, I
> reset it to 137 volts. Makes me more comfortable knowing I can't pull
> the pack below that level.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> As I understand it, 1.75 volts per cell (10.5 volts for a 12V battery)
> is the lowest you should ever take any lead-acid battery under any
> circumstances. So, if you were to continue drawing 100A, soon the
> battery voltage would dip under 10.5 volts, and you'd know that you're
> then decreasing the life expectancy of the battery. I believe this
> applies regardless of discharge current, even letting them sit
> (self-discharge).
>
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:44 am
> Subject: Re: How low can you go?
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > The Optima data sheet indicates that 10.5 volts is the cut off low >
> voltage for the reserve capacity.
> > > Should that voltage also be considered the maximum “sag” voltage
> during > a high current draw regardless of the state of charge or sag
> time?
>
> Yes; 10.5v is a good safe cutoff voltage regardless of current. You are
> very unlikely to reverse a cell if you don't go below this.
>
> If you *know* all cells are matched, and are trying to produce big
> numbers for a data sheet, you can discharge below this point. Battery
> manufacturers do this on their data sheets to inflate the amphour
> ratings.
>
> The real danger is that when a cell goes completely dead, it develops
> high resistance. The other cells in series with it, that still have
> charge, will force current to keep flowing through the dead cell. This
> high current and high resistance cause severe heating in the dead cell.
> The plates will warp, it will boil its electrolyte, and things will get
> very bad very fast!
>
> So, the 10.5v limit comes from the assumption that 1 cell out of the 6
> in a 12v battery has gone dead. The 5 good ones are still delivering 2v
> each (2 x 5 = 10v) and there is just 0.5v left across the dead one (1 x
> 0.5v = 0.5v), so there is 10.5v across the battery as a whole.
>
> -- Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
> =0
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rob,
EV List,
I replied to Rob's message recently away from my main computer using
"Webmail" and the text contained html and I am sure put a monkey wrench
in your display of the messages or your digest. Sorry about that.
I'll quickly review what I posted in case that is what Rob is asking.
Rob inquired about a company that could make a custom gear or sprocket
to attach to a splined shaft.
I am using a 6.7 inch Advanced DC motor for a motorcycle project. The
motor came with a 13 spline "SAE B" type shaft because it was for some
other application, possibly to bolt to a hydraulic pump or pallet jack
drive unit. If I had purchased a more common shaft to put a sprocket
on, like a shaft with a single key way of a common size, one trip down
to the local bearing supply house and I would be set. I E-mailed
Advanced DC and they were kind enough to send me the motor chart and a
drawing of the motor with the specs on the shaft size, with lots of
measurements on the splined teeth.
Local machine shops were helpful, and would try if they had a cutter
small enough, but they would be cutting each tooth and surface
individually, $$$$$$. I was referred to a company in a large city, and
they had me call California Broach Company in Los Angeles, California.
I have mailed my split-tapered hub to them, and the matching sprocket I
will use. The hub is 5/8 inch with one key, and that will have to be
bored out to 3/4, the minimum size of the shaft at the bottom of the
splines. Then they will guide a broach through the hub which is a long
tool with many sets of cutting teeth that will leave the correct spline
profile behind when material is removed. In their list of broaching
tools in stock they had only one that was very close to the specs on the
motor sheet. Their broach was just a tad larger than the shaft, I don't
recall if it was hundredths or thousandths of an inch, but I am thinking
that this is for clearance to install the hub without a press fit. When
I install the part, the sprocket will press down on the split-tapered
hub and decrease its size to clamp down tightly onto the 13 teeth. I'll
let you know how it works out when I receive the part back. The cost
for the machine work is $100 plus a little extra for shipping. The rest
of the build will be welding up a frame, more parts, motor mount,
battery box, more parts, and should move along. I wanted to use a
toothed belt to drive the rear wheel, but the motor pulley I have, and
any I could adapt to, are heavy, wide, and the hubs are difficult to
mount to the shaft because of size and their particular dimensions. The
split-tapered chain set up I am going to use is small and light in
comparison, but still strong. A rear motorcycle chain sprocket is easy
to find, so I will go that route and see what extra noise a chain makes.
I am now trying to complete this project with available parts, and keep
away from looking for something that is not attainable. I figure that I
would rather be enjoying something acceptable today, than waiting for
the perfect parts to be available so that I can have something better
tomorrow. I can always rebuild the project if better parts become
available.
The contact info for California Broach Company is:
4815 Telegraph Rd, Los Angeles, CA 90022-3720 (323) 263-6924
Jerry is the person to speak to. Make sure you have plenty of numbers
and measurements handy when you talk with him, or if it is feasible, he
did ask me to ship him the shaft and the other parts I wanted to mate
to. I did not want to ship the motor, so I sent him the shaft
dimensions on paper from Advanced DC. At one point in the conversation
Jerry wanted to know if a portion of the splined teeth was flat or
curved, but a technical term was used, I forget what it was, and there
was silence on my end of the phone. I imagine it would be like me
calling up one of you, and getting advice on some type of phase inverter
converter buck enhancer drive wave guide meter. There would be silence
on my end of the phone.
Alan Brinkman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rob Hogenmiller
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 8:12 PM
To: EV Discussion
Subject: Custom Gears
Is there a well known company that makes custom gears/sprockets to go on
splined shafts?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He probably just had to do a quick search through all the dead bodies laying
around his shop ;-P
Good thing he doesn't use body bags. No telling what the "boys" will tell me
when they finally arrive. Stories of swiss cheese, arms laying all around,
housings squealing in pain as their skin is scraped off in the lathe. Man I
miss working in a machine shop ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:22 am
Subject: Re: Understanding my motor (ADC L91 & X91 6.7" motors revisited)
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> Thanks Jim,
>
> Hope you didn't have to saw one in half.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> --- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hey Lee, Jeff
> >
> > The L91 has just one wire per slot, although there
> > is
> > a bottom and a top winding, so depending on how you
> > count it, lol. I've not seen the X91.
> > Hope this helps 8^)
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > It's here! Your new message!
> > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
> > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________Fussy?
> Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and
> lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can remember a few more classes that I took in EE at Auburn in the
early 80's: Add
Boolean algebra (the only math I still use at work today)
EM Fields required triple differentials/integrals
Control Theory required math so strange I can't remember the name of it
And Circuits III had so much math that we all rejoiced the last day
when we finally saw our first CIRCUIT in that class.
The worst math for me was matrix math in a ME class, Strengths of Materials.
The math required for EE was a serious chore for me - even though I
didn't have to take 2 quarters of calculus from my AP test scores.
Then, when I began my BSEE program at Arizona State, 1981-1984
Calculus II
Elementary Differential Equations
Elementary Linear Algebra
Advanced Math for Engineers and Scientists
Probability/Statistics for Engineers (elective)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I don't consider the design a cost since
> that's a one off so don't mention that
so all software should be free? since there are no hard costs, only design
costs, and those don't count?
m.
Michael Wendell
Speedgoat Bicycles
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Win a $5000 custom mountain bike, and help fight breast cancer!
http://www.speedgoat.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How long does it take you to "clutchlessly shift" compared to when
you shifted with the clutch?
On 6/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Joseph,
> Tell us later about the performance!
I'll post this after I get my DC-DC converted online.
> And a little question for you...In order to go in reverse do you
> need a forward/reverse contactor? You can just shift in to reverse
> instead, right?
I use the transmission for reverse - the motor always runs the same
direction. Clutchless shifting has been a breeze so far: it drops
right into gear without any grinding.
Rob
RAVolt.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
Jim gave us a take on it. I guess it boils down to
how you define 2. The way I see it, each coil has two
coil sides which pass through the magnetic circuit.
These coils have just one turn but still have 2 sides.
I have never been up close and personal with an ADC
motor, but from what I have gathered, they pretty much
used the Prestolite designs, of which I am very
familiar. So, for the benefit of this discussion and
to those who feel ADC is getting rich by selling $40
of copper and steel for 10 to 20 times that and want
to make those motors themselves, I'll spill the beans
on how to wind an armature.
The coils are preformed and look like hairpins at
first, and are called such. Then they are spread to
the proper span forming an end turn at the end
opposite comm and the proper throw is formed on the
ends to connect to the comm. They end up looking like
frog legs.
When the armature is wound, the coils are inserted
into the slots. Let use 37 for an example. There are
37 slots in the core and a comm with 37 bars. You use
37 preformed coils. Side one of coil one is placed in
the bottom of slot one and the leg is put into the
riser on comm bar one, which is about 45 degrees
offset. Side two of coil one is left hanging. Then
side one of coil 2 is placed in the bottom of slot 2
and the leg is connected to comm bar 2. Side two of
coil 2 is left hanging. This continues, putting the
coils' side ones into the bottom of the slots leaving
the side 2s hanging. Then, side two of coil one is
placed in slot 10, on top of side 1 of coil 10, and
leg 2 of coil 1 is connected to comm bar riser 19 on
top of leg 1 of coil 19. Next, side 2 of coil 2 is
placed in slot 11 on top of side 1 of coil 11 and its
leg to bar 20. This follows around until complete.
You end up with a 37 slot wave wound armature having
one turn per coil, 4 pole.
You put two pieces of copper (or conductors, or wires)
in each slot, one or top of the other.
I don't think even you would attempt to draw that in
this format.
Jeff
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Major wrote:
> > Those slots have 2 wires in them, don't they?
>
> I thought it was one, but I'm going by memory. Jim
> Husted would know.
> Jin, you got your "ears" on? Have you seen the
> internals of an ADC L91
> and X91 for comparison?
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready
for the edge of your seat?
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
we all have limited skills. that's not the issue. I see people making
points that are well below their skill levels. lies essentially,
motivated by a need to make me look wrong. I don't abuse people of fixed
skill but I do defend when irrationally attacked. there is a curious
love of status quo in some subscribers and an unhealtly love of icons.
Jim Husted just accused me of starting sweat shops and generally being
to blame for job migration to low wage countries when all I'm trying to
do is work out an open source cheap controller design such that we can
proliferate the EV. that's an irrational attack and well below his
intelligence.
Dan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps that is the problem. Perhaps those on this list that you have
been insulting is not as smart as you. That is not their fault. That
is just the way it is. Everyone has been trying to explain, at scream
level, that their accomplishments are the result of years of grueling
hard work - not geniusness. I certainly can not imagine how years of
work can be explained in just a few sentences sufficiently that
someone could duplicate those years of progress. If that were
possible, I don't think universities would exist. But then I am
certainly no genius.
From my personal design experience, a major element of the design is
always to keep it simple. With that effort, a current project requires
a 10" X 12" 90 mil PCB with 3 oz copper and 10 mil traces. Low bidder
for that cost $450.00 for three proto boards. The capacitors,
including low ESR high ripple current Illinois Capacitors are $272.87.
The resistors, SMT capacitors etc. come to $112.18. The controller
chips, transistors and power MOSFETS come to $208.48. The inductors
came from low bidder which was $400.00. The inductors had to be custom
built because I could not find any off the shelf units that even come
close to fitting the use. I have yet to get quotes from a machine shop
to fabricate the heatsinks. So that comes to $1443.53, not including
the heatsink, enclosure, hardware, or labor. This is all for a 140 Amp
DC-DC converter. I have spent almost a year trying to simplify the
design to get the price down and that is the best I have managed so
far. My point is I simply do not know how to describe in a few
sentences how to do what you are asking, or get the cost in line with
your beliefs.
You can call me stupid as I don't claim to be smart. But, just like
everyone else on this list that you are attacking, I am WORKING on it.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shaun Williams wrote:
> In rough dimensions I'd probably have approximately 40 groups in
> series, with 30 paralleled cells in each group, to replace my
> current 12 X 12V 100Ah(C20) lead pack.
>
> My first question is; Do the 30 individual cells in a parallel
> grouping need individual attention or can I treat them as one
> because they are in parallel with each other?
My view is that you're taking chances by simply paralleling so many cells. If
one shorts, the other 29 in parallel will dump all their energy into it. This
is the first step in a disasterous chain reaction.
At the very least, I think you need a fuse in series with each cell. It will
blow if that cell sees excessive current. If you make it a thermal fuse that
will open if the cell temperature exceeds X degrees, it will also disconnect
the cell if it ever overheats.
--
I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum. --
Frances Willard
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Dan Frederiksen
> Lee, many keep saying that it's so impossible.
> what is so time consuming about assembling it? where is the great
> difficulty that ensures it will cost more?
>
> please try to be specific, not just the 'try it, you will fail' mantra
> why will it fail?
Part 1:
Right at this moment, I have a student assembling relay boards for my battery
balancer. The board is very simple; there are 8 relays, 8 resistors, 8 LEDs, 8
diodes, 9 fuses, and 14 connectors. How long do you think it takes him to
solder it together? I'm paying him $8/hour, so what do you think it costs?
--
I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum. --
Frances Willard
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yay!
Dan has finally convinced me to learn how to block a sender in Gmail!
Knowing is half the battle, right?
Trot, the blocking, fox...
On 6/26/07, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
we all have limited skills. that's not the issue. I see people making
points that are well below their skill levels. lies essentially,
motivated by a need to make me look wrong. I don't abuse people of fixed
skill but I do defend when irrationally attacked. there is a curious
love of status quo in some subscribers and an unhealtly love of icons.
Jim Husted just accused me of starting sweat shops and generally being
to blame for job migration to low wage countries when all I'm trying to
do is work out an open source cheap controller design such that we can
proliferate the EV. that's an irrational attack and well below his
intelligence.
Dan
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
Is there a well known company that makes custom gears/sprockets to go
on splined shafts?
Rob,
I had the same problem a while back. Roger Stockton was kind enough to
purchase a hub (that he saw at his local auto parts store) and mail it
to me. However, the hub in quesiton is made by "Hub City," and the have
several products. Below is linked to the page that had my shaft. A
little noodling on the website will likely find you a hub that you can
use. The hubs are designed to have whatever size sprocket you want
welded onto them.
Hope this helps.
http://catalogs.hubcityinc.com/farmrev/nonPTOproducts.html#4
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob when some aggressive fool in an oh-so-correct EV knocks your 85 year old Mom down in a crosswalk, you might not be
so keen on so-called Darwinian selection. ;>) Its important to remember that not all people are 25 yr old athletes, who
only eat granola, and don't own a cell phone. Some people are toddlers, and some are blind, and some are simply stoned
all the time. Still not ok to mow them down.
In fact pedestrians should have the right of way. They are using a lot less resources than any motorized vehicle, after
all. In CA they do have the right of way in a cross-walk, not that we encourage walking out here.
Wow thats my most politically correct post ever!
JF
Bob Rice wrote:
-
Garret's right, but we can't let Darwin's Law run it's course.
Sigh! This is why there arre so many stupid people out there!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee
Any idea when you might be taking orders? This year? Next year?
Dave Cover
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lee wrote:
> >> Batteries
> >> central battery tunnel slides out the front for easy servicing
> >> size 120"L x 12"H x 15"W, 1500 lbs, holds up to 24 T-145 6v 240ah
> >> (24 GM/Ovonic nimh, 12v 90ah)
>
> Rush asked:
> > Balancers with the batteries?
>
> The whole point of the Sunrise kit is to provide a "glider" for builders to
> attach their own
> parts as desired. The Solectria Sunrise took the "high tech" approach; AC
> motor, carbon fiber
> composites, expensive batteries, etc. That provided one price/performance
> data point.
>
> So, we are building one that goes in the opposite direction, to provide a
> data point at the
> other end of the curve. DC motor, cheap batteries, ordinary fiberglass, etc.
> We're using flooded
> golf cart batteries, because they are the *cheapest* you can get. I'll
> probably put one of my
> Battery Balancers in it just for instrumentation and data logging; but not
> balancing.
>
> --
> I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum.
> -- Frances Willard
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What ever happened to "look both ways before stepping out on the street"??? My
EV may not make much noise, but a lot of cars I pull up next to are just as
quite at a stop light. Most newer cars make no noise at all at slow speeds.
How about a Prius? Are they going to put noise makers on Toyota cars?
I'm voting for quiet EV's.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
>From: john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jun 26, 2007 2:23 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: vroombox and EV ?
>
>Bob when some aggressive fool in an oh-so-correct EV knocks your 85 year old
>Mom down in a crosswalk, you might not be
>so keen on so-called Darwinian selection. ;>) Its important to remember that
>not all people are 25 yr old athletes, who
>only eat granola, and don't own a cell phone. Some people are toddlers, and
>some are blind, and some are simply stoned
>all the time. Still not ok to mow them down.
>
>
>In fact pedestrians should have the right of way. They are using a lot less
>resources than any motorized vehicle, after
>all. In CA they do have the right of way in a cross-walk, not that we
>encourage walking out here.
>
>Wow thats my most politically correct post ever!
>JF
>
>Bob Rice wrote:
>>
>> -
>>
>> Garret's right, but we can't let Darwin's Law run it's course.
>> Sigh! This is why there arre so many stupid people out there!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Dave Cover
> Lee
> Any idea when you might be taking orders? This year? Next year?
We won't take orders until we have something to sell. The first part for sale
will be plans; basically, documenting how we built our prototype sufficiently
detailed so you can build one yourself. That will probably become available
later this year.
>From there, we will be refining the design to make it easier to build, and
>one-by-one, tooling up so we can offer the various custom parts (chassis,
>body, custom fabricated parts like the rear subframe, etc.) If this goes well,
>these parts will become available next year.
Eventually, in a year or two, I hope we can offer a fairly complete kit; you
provide the donor car, buy the motor, batteries, and controlle of your choice,
and bolt it all together!
--
I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum. --
Frances Willard
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
as the father of two college students, I can tell you that two years of HS calc is common. They weren't very serious
about differential equations or linear algebra at my kid's (public) HS though. A few HS kids took college courses in
those, but not many. Many kids got 4's or 5's on the AP calc test.
the below looks like my daughter's physics requirements. The math majors go off
into some stuff I can't even describe.
just check any college website for actual requirements
HTH
JF, an English major
John A. Evans - N0HJ wrote:
Then, when I began my BSEE program at Arizona State, 1981-1984
Calculus II
Elementary Differential Equations
Elementary Linear Algebra
Advanced Math for Engineers and Scientists
Probability/Statistics for Engineers (elective)
john
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Okay, so I just received two Anderson SB350 connectors. Being the
super-genius that I am, I pushed the contacts all the way in to see how
well the connectors mated. Now I'm wondering if there's a
non-destructive way to remove the contacts again. Common sense tells me
to push them all the way in, then put a skinny screwdriver between the
contact and the spring (from the wire side), then draw out the contact.
Or is there a better way?
Really don't want to break the nice plastic housing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Eric,
That exactly what you do. Use a small thin blade screw driver to push the
locking spring back. In our electrical work, we did thousand of these types
of connections that range from 15 amp to 400 amp size using a small screw
driver or a thin flat spring steel ejection and installing tools, which one
looks just like a small flat bladed screw driver.
Some auto parts store have ejection and installing tools for the GM water
proof connections that also work on the Anderson connectors.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:13 PM
Subject: Anderson disassembly (AKA Duh ...)
> Okay, so I just received two Anderson SB350 connectors. Being the
> super-genius that I am, I pushed the contacts all the way in to see how
> well the connectors mated. Now I'm wondering if there's a
> non-destructive way to remove the contacts again. Common sense tells me
> to push them all the way in, then put a skinny screwdriver between the
> contact and the spring (from the wire side), then draw out the contact.
> Or is there a better way?
>
> Really don't want to break the nice plastic housing.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric,
I see the coupler in your link that I could have welded a sprocket to
and used in attaching to my 13 spline motor shaft. I was hoping that
machining a hub would not be so expensive, as I took that route. Your
resource is very good as many shaft sizes and spline counts are covered.
Alan Brinkman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:19 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Custom Gears
Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
> Is there a well known company that makes custom gears/sprockets to go
> on splined shafts?
>
Rob,
I had the same problem a while back. Roger Stockton was kind enough to
purchase a hub (that he saw at his local auto parts store) and mail it
to me. However, the hub in quesiton is made by "Hub City," and the have
several products. Below is linked to the page that had my shaft. A
little noodling on the website will likely find you a hub that you can
use. The hubs are designed to have whatever size sprocket you want
welded onto them.
Hope this helps.
http://catalogs.hubcityinc.com/farmrev/nonPTOproducts.html#4
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> I don't consider the design a cost since that's a one off so don't
>> mention that
Michael> so all software should be free? since there are no hard costs,
Michael> only design costs, and those don't count?
The notion is that design cost is a one-time cost, amortized over the total
production run of the product. If the number of units produced is high
enough, design costs are dwarfed by other factors (raw materials, parts
costs, manufacturing labor, testing, etc).
Of course, in the current EV controller market that doesn't mean anything
since the production volume is so low (essentially only hobbyists and
racers). Design costs are going to be a significant fraction of each unit's
cost. It would be different if GM decided they wanted to buy 1M Zillas for
the Volt. Then Otmar would have a whole 'nuther set of problems, but they'd
be the good kind of problem. Like how big a sailboat to buy and where in
the Caribbean to retire. ;-)
(I assume we are still talking about Zillas and Zilla "clones", right?)
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What do you guys think are the chances of working for an Auto Company?
(you know, designing cars and stuff)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you're running a DC-DC converter, for your
auxillary power to headlights, etc, then you could
feed that output to the battery input of a standard,
computer UPS which would then convert it to 120vac.
Sort of a round about way to do things, but it seems
good in theory.
Depending upon the amperage drawn off the 12volt
battery of your UPS, you'd need to make sure your DC
to DC converter could handle that amperage without
overheating, etc.
That's what we did during the week without power after Hurricane Wilma. We
limited ourselves to crucial things, running the computers and the pump for
the solar hot water heater!
Here is the link : http://www.proev.com/StaticPg/WilmaNotes.htm
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joseph,
Good job explaining.
Glad to see you on the list.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Tahbaz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: VOLTS vs AMPS
Well, sort of, not really. This is my understanding...
Amps x Volts = Watts
What are watts? Watt is power, NOT energy!
What are amps? Well, amps are how quickly the electricity moves. More
amps, which means the electricity is moving faster, which means more
watts (power)
Now to describe voltage you'll need to understand something else
first. A Negative charge and a positive charge attract, right? Well
the attraction between a negative and positive is voltage. That
electrical attracting force is voltage. More voltage, more force, more
watts. (power)
And when you multiply the two together you get watts!
More amps means more power, and more voltage means more power too.
Now, more amps basically creates torque, which is good for
acceleration. Using more voltage basically means more rpm (rotation
per minute) which is better for achieving a high speed. So
basically... amps= torque....voltage=rpm....amps x volts=watts
"AMPS seem to be how long the vehicle can go"
Amps-hours is how far the vehicle can go, NOT amps. An amp-hour is one
amp running for one hour. That's all I know about amp-hours really.
(Well, there's Peukert's Exponent but that's something else.)
To everyone out there:
Please correct any mistakes I made. We can't have electrical blasphemy
on this mailing list!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
About as good as working for 7-11, depending on your qualifications. What a
strange question to ask on the EV list...
Lon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:01 PM
Subject: Chances of working for an Auto Company
What do you guys think are the chances of working for an Auto Company?
(you know, designing cars and stuff)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric,
I use a medium size screwdriver (or the tool Anderson
gave me) from the connect side, not the wire side.
You push down the spring and pull the cable and lug
out the other side. Since you don't have the cable on
the lug, use needle nose pliers to pull it out. If
you get the spring pushed down far enough, the lug may
just fall out.
Jeff
--- Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Okay, so I just received two Anderson SB350
> connectors. Being the
> super-genius that I am, I pushed the contacts all
> the way in to see how
> well the connectors mated. Now I'm wondering if
> there's a
> non-destructive way to remove the contacts again.
> Common sense tells me
> to push them all the way in, then put a skinny
> screwdriver between the
> contact and the spring (from the wire side), then
> draw out the contact.
> Or is there a better way?
>
> Really don't want to break the nice plastic housing.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joseph,
With the correct background, school, experience, and a desire and talent
for the work, a person should have a good chance. Plan out your
strategy, and if you are young, still in school, start working in the
mail room and move up. A person from my town did very well at Ford
designing cars. He eventually did not like the cold weather around
Detroit, decided a career in water use and law was his thing, and went
back to college for a law degree.
To keep this on topic, when interviewing, let the people know you are a
car nut (if you are) and what you have designed, fixed, what your
hobbies are, that you study up on electric vehicles, and what you have
designed in that area.
Alan Brinkman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joseph T.
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:01 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Chances of working for an Auto Company
What do you guys think are the chances of working for an Auto Company?
(you know, designing cars and stuff)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee> Eventually, in a year or two, I hope we can offer a fairly complete
Lee> kit; you provide the donor car, buy the motor, batteries, and
Lee> controlle of your choice, and bolt it all together!
The donor car will provide what? Brakes, suspension, steering? Frame? I
guess I missed something.
Thx,
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before Otmar gets to retire to the Caribbean he would have to invest
many more $ in volume production tooling to reduce the time for
assembling and testing the Zillas required just to meet the production
schedule. These dolars would also be spread over the production run
of 1M units and would have the overall effect of reducing the overall
unit cost as well due to the reduction in labor cost. It takes money
or time to make money.........me
On 6/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I don't consider the design a cost since that's a one off so don't
>> mention that
Michael> so all software should be free? since there are no hard costs,
Michael> only design costs, and those don't count?
The notion is that design cost is a one-time cost, amortized over the total
production run of the product. If the number of units produced is high
enough, design costs are dwarfed by other factors (raw materials, parts
costs, manufacturing labor, testing, etc).
Of course, in the current EV controller market that doesn't mean anything
since the production volume is so low (essentially only hobbyists and
racers). Design costs are going to be a significant fraction of each unit's
cost. It would be different if GM decided they wanted to buy 1M Zillas for
the Volt. Then Otmar would have a whole 'nuther set of problems, but they'd
be the good kind of problem. Like how big a sailboat to buy and where in
the Caribbean to retire. ;-)
(I assume we are still talking about Zillas and Zilla "clones", right?)
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Go through the numbers, and you'll find that a sinewave drive puts
>*higher* stress levels on the semiconductors.
>Synthesizing a sinewave also causes high switching losses, and drives up
>the cost of your power semiconductors because they have to switch faster.
I spent a few hours looking at various motor books, and of course
you are absolutely correct, but one thing that has me a bit puzzled is
your comments on PWM being faster to generate a sine wave, if you are
using the commutating power stages to also do current control. It seems
to me as though the PWM frequency might be similar - kind of like a
BLDC where one switch is on, and the other switch pair does PWM to
control the current. Switching losses are obviously lower now that
I look at it, as only the active phases are being switched at basically
full current, but you're not switching them when they are not actually
doing much.
If my understanding is correct, then, if you are running a 36-slot,
18-phase, 2-pole, square wave commutation, then you have six phase
coil pairs energized at any time and just rotate those around, right?
So phase 0-5 are on + , 6-17 are off, then phase 6 turns on while phase
0 turns off... or maybe phase 6 turns on five degrees before 0
turns off? Or do you have 9 coil pairs energized at once?
Then you could either do a current-fed inverter (with a monster buck
stage right ahead of it) or a more traditional approach (a MOSFET
pair per phase with a current PWM controller right there on each
phase) - sort of the way a 3-phase trapezoidal BLDC controller does.
The commutation does look a whole heck of a lot easier!
Am I on the right track now?
Also, would the harmonics of square-wave commutation cancel enough
in an ACIM rotor or would that become a power-loss issue?
I gotta say there are a lot of really knowledgeable people on this
list. I could have spent many months designing and building something
that is too complicated.... my comfort level is in the sub-100 amp
region so that's kind of why I was trying to work this idea up.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
