Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:17:37 -0700
EV Digest 6999
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Generator powered by vibrations was: Re: Free Energy
by Henry Heng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Power loss in cables, was: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Generator powered by vibrations was: Re: Free Energy
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Nissan/Datsun speedometer cable HELP
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Nissan/Datsun speedometer cable HELP
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EVs near NY City
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) EV world map
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Searching Past Posts
by "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Stoern Energy
by "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Wheels and load
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Stoern Energy
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Conversion Classes in The Bay?
by jmmistrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Hypothetical use of A123 cells
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) VW pickup EV for sale - Paul "neon" G conversion
by Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV world map
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Dessicant
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV world map
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Steel
by "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Stoern Energy
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Searching Past Posts
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Ping
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) DO NOT REPLY: Re: Stoern Energy
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Conversion Classes in The Bay?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Hypothetical use of A123 cells
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) A hot day in the valley
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Honda Civic Crankshaft?
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message --- I made a search on that recently as well. It's a technology pioneered by Seiko, marketed under the Kinetic brand. Basically, a rotating pendulum attached to a mini-generator inside the watch.Wanted to check out the specs of the generator, but couldn't find any technical info on the net.Zeke Yewdall wrote:Does anyone remember the self winding wrist watches? My dad still wears his every day. This sounds like the electrical equivalent of that. Sort of neat, but not applicable to EV's all..... On 7/6/07, Henry Heng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:This is what I'd call free energy. "The tiny device, which is less than one cubic centimetre in size, uses vibrations in the world around it to make magnets on a cantilever at the heart of the device wobble to generate power." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6272752.stm
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--- Begin Message ---The grid uses AC. This causes a loss from current to charge and discharge 120 times per second the capacitance that is formed by the cable isolation as the dielectricum and the 'plates' formed by the cable itself plus either shielding or adjacent cable or the earth if it is an unshielded cable (not likely, as you would dig right into the high voltage if you are backhoe'ing away.... On short runs, the losses are very little, but if you are running miles and miles of HV cable, then the capacitance becomes significant and therefor the loss caused by the charging current becomes large. One power-line from (IIRC) Denmark to Sweden, through the sea straight was so long that the only way to avoid a massive loss was to convert the AC to DC and transport it at extremely high voltage (low current) as a DC voltage through the cable. To further save costs, they used the sea as "return", so they had a single isolated cable without shielding and half an electrolyser on each side in the sea to complete the circuit. Don't know if they switch polarity from time to time to avoid an electrochemical migration. Overhead lines have a very small capacitance, as the "plates" are small and the distance between them large and low in dielectric constant (air instead of isolation) so the losses from this capacitance and the resulting current are much lower. Hth, Cor van de Water Systems Architect Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925 Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of patrick DonEgan Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 2:21 PM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy Well, years ago when the electric company out here (called HELCO ;) was putting up poles in virgin land - and getting complaints - showed us some data on the losses of "undergrounding" the power cables as compared to blocking the ocean views. I dont have that data anymore. At that time I had discussed it with some electrical knowledgable ;) people, and they understood this to be the case. Something about the capacitance of the earth and so larger conduits were smarter to use. If someone has more info - please tell us ;) On 7/6/07, joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Where did you get this idea? I'm an electrical contractor, have been > burying wire for years, and never heard of such a thing! There are > losses, yes but they are caused by the resistance of the wire, not the earth! > > Joseph H. Strubhar > > Web: www.gremcoinc.com > > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "patrick DonEgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:26 PM > Subject: Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy > > > > Well, what about the capacitance of the Earth (aka dirt)??? > > > > I know when you bury electrical cables, you lose power. > > > > > > On 7/5/07, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> If you do bury batteries underground, they should remain at a > >> constant 57F. This would keep the batteries from overheating, but > >> you wouldn't get the full capacity achievable at 70-80F. > >> > >> My 2 Wh, > >> > >> Brandon Kruger > >> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/ > >> http://cafepress.com/altfuel > >> > >> On 7/5/07, patrick DonEgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > On 7/5/07, Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > > >> > > > >> > > I'll start off with a grid-tie system but evenually I want an > >> > > interrupt breaker that will divert PV output from the static > >> > > inverter to a "battery bunker" I'm going to bury in the > >> > > backyard. That way, if the grid goes down, I'll have batteries > >> > > to run things for a little while. > >> > > >> > > >> > If you bury the batteries, will the earth soak up a percentage of > >> > your energy? > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > > > > > >
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--- Begin Message ---On Jul 6, 2007, at 8:19 AM, John Wayland wrote:It would do the same thing if it were sitting in the living room on a coffee table along with Harper's Bazaar.I tried that with a couple of Optimas once. My wife wouldn't go for it :-)Paul
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--- Begin Message --->I made a search on that recently as well. It's a technology pioneered by >Seiko, marketed under the Kinetic brand. Basically, a rotating pendulum >attached to a mini-generator inside the watch. With regards to an EV, wearing one of those watches will slightly reduce your range, as it'll 'charge' when you turn a corner. Of course, it 'charges' when you move your arm to steer the EV, which will take a miniscule amount of extra breakfast for you to move. It's really OT but I couldn't resist... :-) The energy really isn't free... just in this case it is so miniscule that the 'stolen' energy is lost in the noise. -Dale
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--- Begin Message --- Thank you Larry and Roger. That is what I was suspecting. Its a bit dark and dirty under there - ICEs have a way of leaving messes.Anyway, I have turned every bolt and nut required to remove the engine/transmission. The engine is hanging in an empty engine bay, except for the front mounts. Left to do...drain tranny drop driveshaft pull speedo cable (must drain tranny first!) remove hoodI'm more familiar with old aircooled VWs. This is like a blast back to high school auto shop (and that was quite a few years ago.) I was going to pull the motor this weekend but now I'm working it. Well, you've got either money or time, right?Thanx, Paul "neon" G. Larry Cronk wrote:Roger Stockton wrote:I haven't pulled a tranny out of a Datsun for a long time, but the nuton the speedo cable usually allows you to remove the cable from the tranny while a small bolt in the immediate vicinity will usually be retaining the speedo drive gear assembly itself.You can't go wrong undoing the cable nut and verifying with a gentle tug that this frees the cable housing from the tranny/speedo drive. If that gentle tug doesn't reveal that the cable is now completely free of thetranny, tug a little more firmly. It will come loose with very littleeffort if it is free, so you will know if the little bolt needs to comeout well before you harm the cable.Larry Cronk wrote:I just removed the trans in my 72 datsun truck. I had the motor rebuilt by jim husted.who did a beautiful job. the small bolt removes the whole assembly.I drained the trans fluid first.I had the flywheel lightend balanced and resurfaced plus installed a new clutch. the truck seems to run much better. good luck!
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--- Begin Message --- Actually, you probably don't want to leave a battery on a concrete floor, not for the batteries sake but for the floors sake.I left an old flooded battery in one spot on my garage floor for a couple months and the acid stained and tore up the concrete. It must have had a leak or something on the bottom.Chip On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:21 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: July 6, 2007 2:08:12 PM EDT To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered I found this article on the internet regarding a couple of battery myths: http://www.inct.net/~autotips/battmyth.htm Battery Myth #2 Storing a battery on a concrete floor will discharge the battery. There is not currently a strong reason for avoiding contact of a battery with a concrete floor. The battery's contact with the concrete should not create a problem with the material in today' s batteries. If the battery is not clean, but has a surface layer of acid or grime which is conductive, the battery can be expected to self-discharge more rapidly than if it was clean and dry. Many years ago, the batteries were constructed with a wooden case around a glass jar with the battery in it. Any moisture on the floor could cause the wood to swell and possibly fracture the glass, causing it to leak. Shortly after the introduction of "Hard Rubber" containers, which were somewhat porous and of a less than ideal design, there was a chance of current to be conducted through the container of a high carbon content if the moist concrete floor permitted the current to find an electrical ground. These are two of the older reasons for not storing batteries on a concrete floor. There is no reference to avoiding storage on concrete floors in the Battery Service Manual published by the BCI. Their suggestion is appropriate for the current state of the art batteries built by reputable battery manufacturers. For more information on storage, see the AutoTips Battery Storage Tips page. ( Thanks to Interstate Batteries for review and contributions to this article! Check out their Battery Care page for more information.)
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--- Begin Message ---Paul wrote: > pull speedo cable (must drain tranny first!) > remove hood You only have to drain the tranny if you pull the whole speedo drive assembly. I don't remember having to pull the speedo drive to pull a Datsun tranny in the past and read Larry's message as simply confirming that the purpose of the small bolt is to retain the speedo drive, not that you must pull the drive to disconnect the cable. You're probably going to treat the tranny to a drink of fresh synthetic fluid anyway, so perhaps draining it isn't a biggie, but I'd still just disconnect the speedo cable from the drive and leave the drive place on the tranny if it were mine. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---hmm maybe 'we' could make an online map showing the EVs in the world that site with all the car projects might be a good host maybe EV enthusiast yet without a car could also be plottet and EV recharge friendly locations make something GM could vent their anger at :) Dan
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--- Begin Message ---How does one search pasts posts,(those that were made before I subscribed)? God bless
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--- Begin Message ---Anyone seen the news on the Stoern project? (thoughts on it) Free Energy.
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--- Begin Message ---David Dymaxion wrote: > I'm not disagreeing, but looking at things from a different > point of view. The Evette might be able to hold more > batteries as a percentage of vehicle weight, which is the > important number for city range. I think your comparison between a bicycle, unicycle, and 3 and 4-wheelers is invalid, at least in this instance. It assumes that the fewer wheels a vehicle has, the less framework/structure it has as well; it kind of falls apart if the 'unicycle' is a bicycle with the front wheel removed, which is more like what Tom has done (except he also replaced the bicyle's remaining wheel with one from a motorcycle, so the wheel may not be the limiting factor anymore but the 'unicycle' now weighs as much or more than the original bicycle ;^). > So if it is properly designed, a vehicle like the Evette > could have a higher battery to vehicle weight ratio than a > four wheel vehicle, giving it greater range. Finding strong > enough bearings and axles is doable, just use truck components. Just to be clear, it already needs to use at *least* pick up truck type components since the vehicle weight is comparable to a typical car and is supported by a single pair of wheels (so loaded 2x as heavily as those in a typical car, with perhaps 750-1000lbs riding on each when fully loaded). So, when you refer to "truck", we're talking 3 to 5 ton truck parts now, including tires, which is going to push the vehicle's unladen weight higher and so impact that precious battery-to-vehicle weight ratio we're after. Tom refers to the Evette being about 1000lbs w/o batteries, which is about the same as the 4-wheeled steel-bodied 4-seater hatchback donor used for my EV (1584lbs curb weight in ICE trim, with spare tire and fluids on board). There is no significant reduction in base vehicle weight apparent here. And, with the huge tires he has chosen (been forced?) to use, his rolling resistance may be significantly greater than a typical 4-wheeled conversion, so he may need an even better battery-to-vehicle weight ratio to even match a conventional EV's range. I'm not saying it isn't possible, just that there really isn't anything that clearly suggests it is. It looks to me as if there is every reason to expect that his vehicle would need a similar battery weight as any similarly sized 4-wheeler to go a given distance but that he is limited by either what he can physically fit into the rear seat/trunk area (bearing in mind that his drivetrain must also fit in this space) since he can't put significant weight in the front of the "car" without upsetting the vehicle balance, or by the maximum load capacity of his tires and suspension components, whichever comes first. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---it's Steorn. and they crashed hard at the demo. no show. saga continues who knows. what a world Rob Hogenmiller wrote:Anyone seen the news on the Stoern project? (thoughts on it) Free Energy.
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--- Begin Message ---If you stored batteries for a length of time, they should be store like stationary batteries. Lets see what the specifications read in my battery hand book, which is in a section of the Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers: Batteries shall set on a bed of glass beads that are in a glass tray. The glass trays are also mounted on glass insulators. You can use something like the glass beads using for sand blasting. So, why do you think they did that? If you took a volt meter and put one lead on one of the post, and place the other on the surface of the battery about 1/8 inch away from that post, you will read a voltage. Now while keeping the one lead on the post and move the other on the surface of the battery all the way to one edge, you will still read some voltage. Now move the lead all the way down to the bottom of the battery and you may still read some conductance. If a battery is setting on a conductive surface, that may be cooler and the battery retains a warmer temperature, you will have condensation below the battery. As a test, just lay a sheet of plastic on the concrete floor for about a week and see the amount of condensation below the plastic. If there is conductance from both post along the plastic exterior down the sides, then this is where you have a path of current. If a battery is new and very clean, it may have no conductance you can measure. A use battery and no matter how much you clean it, there will be a surface conductance. In my battery box, I set my batteries on 1 inch thick bed of baking soda and also space the batteries about 1/2 inch from the sides of a non-conductance epoxy coat battery boxes so I reduce the conductance to the body of the EV. I just read my 180 volt battery pack to the EV body and its reads 0.82 volts and I haven't clean my batteries for about a month now. Roland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 4:42 PM Subject: Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered > Actually, you probably don't want to leave a battery on a concrete > floor, not for the batteries sake but for the floors sake. > > I left an old flooded battery in one spot on my garage floor for a > couple months and the acid stained and tore up the concrete. It must > have had a leak or something on the bottom. > > Chip > > > > On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:21 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote: > > > From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: July 6, 2007 2:08:12 PM EDT > > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu > > Subject: Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered > > > > > > I found this article on the internet regarding a > > couple of battery myths: > > > > http://www.inct.net/~autotips/battmyth.htm > > > > Battery Myth #2 Storing a battery on a concrete > > floor will discharge the battery. > > > > There is not currently a strong reason for avoiding > > contact of a battery with a concrete floor. The > > battery's contact with the concrete should not create > > a problem with the material in today' s batteries. If > > the battery is not clean, but has a surface layer of > > acid or grime which is conductive, the battery can be > > expected to self-discharge more rapidly than if it was > > clean and dry. Many years ago, the batteries were > > constructed with a wooden case around a glass jar with > > the battery in it. Any moisture on the floor could > > cause the wood to swell and possibly fracture the > > glass, causing it to leak. Shortly after the > > introduction of "Hard Rubber" containers, which were > > somewhat porous and of a less than ideal design, there > > was a chance of current to be conducted through the > > container of a high carbon content if the moist > > concrete floor permitted the current to find an > > electrical ground. These are two of the older reasons > > for not storing batteries on a concrete floor. There > > is no reference to avoiding storage on concrete floors > > in the Battery Service Manual published by the BCI. > > Their suggestion is appropriate for the current state > > of the art batteries built by reputable battery > > manufacturers. For more information on storage, see > > the AutoTips Battery Storage Tips page. > > > > ( Thanks to Interstate Batteries for review and > > contributions to this article! Check out their Battery > > Care page for more information.) > >
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--- Begin Message ---Folks,Thought it might be wise to take a class before starting my own project... Anyone know of some good resources in the by area?Thanks, jm
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--- Begin Message ---I am dreaming of a battery pack that consists of 30 groups of A123 cells, 5 cells per group. An array that is 5 cells in parallel with 30 in series. Not a very big or heavy pack. Not much energy storage either, but read on. Not even high voltage. Each cell is interconnected. There are bypass regulators on each block of cells limiting the max voltage to 4.0 or maybe 4.1 V. Notice that that is less than 100% charged. Thre is also a non-ressetable fuse in line with each and every cell to take care of catastrophic failure and runaway. Then, there is a battery pack of 12 V good old flooded lead, 10 batteries in series. There is a diode to only allow current to flow from the lead pack to the A123 pack. There is also a current limiter sized appropriately for maximum 1 way trip. 1/2 of your max range and the A123's go to 20% SOC. Let's say 40 A current limiter. Finally, there is a single contactor controlled by the voltage of the A123 pack. Less than the regulator voltage, it is on and the packs are connected. More than the regulator voltage and it is disconnected. The lead pack has a higher voltage than the 123 pack, so it always charges the 123 pack. The A123 cells will see. 1) Charge rate of 40 A / 5 = 8 A per cell (roughly) constant current up to 4.0 or 4.1 V per cell. 2) Discharge on the order of up to 350 A /5 = 70 A. Typical would be around 25 A. 3) They would be cycled a lot. 4) Max DOD could be limited to 80% / 20% SOC. Two questions: 1) How would the A123's hold up in this case where they are essentially used as capacitors? 2) Would this significantly improve the amount of usable energy you could get out of the basic flooded lead. I would think so because of limiting the discharge rate. 3) What effects would it have on the cycle life of the lead? This is one type of hybrid battery pack that I have considerered, but never built. So far, I have gone the other way and used low discharge rate on NiMH and Li Ion to boost charge the lead pack. But now, I am thinking I have it all wrong, and I should be doing the opposite. Keep the discharge rate on the lead low to maximize usable energy out (and maybe cycle life ????). The other way, the sole intent was to boost the lead SOC to improve cycle life. Really it had little to no effect on usable energy out of the lead pack, as far as I could see. That is with the slow charge rates off my small boost packs. Thoughts? Steve ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
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--- Begin Message ---I hope this is not a mis-use of this list, but;The time has come for me to part with the best EV (for me) I have ever owned. It is in excellent condition and many of you have seen it before.It is listed on the EValbum at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/296.html For more pictures also see http://www.evpickup.shutterfly.comI've got the itch to get into a different EV or I would never sell it, plus my wife won't drive a pickup. She loved the Solectria Force.I would prefer to have someone in our group buy it.It is in Excellent condition and would not require any repairs as I drive daily. EVery thing works as it should.Details: It has fresh US Battery 125 (240Ahr/20hr) batteries installed last fall.Tested range is 45 miles+, and it may go up to 60 miles under the right conditions. These batteries have been below 50% SOC only twice.It has new front brake discs, pads, calipers, new rear cylinders, shoes, etc. Also new wheel bearings and synthetic grease at the same time just a few weeks ago.I have 2 additional GTI seats for it that require re-covering.The FM radio with CD player and speakers in the boxes behind the seats were installed by Paul "neon" G.Available for test drive any time. I am looking to get $10,000 for it Please do not use EDVL bandwidth to contact me about this. Don Buckshot Roeland Park, Kansas [EMAIL PROTECTED] 913-789-0889
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--- Begin Message --- There is a map we EV locations, it doesn't have the whole world on one map map, that probably would be too hard to read, (to much data, too small a screen).http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/geo I think there is one with charging stations out there somewhere. At 06:16 PM 7/6/2007, you wrote:hmm maybe 'we' could make an online map showing the EVs in the world that site with all the car projects might be a good host maybe EV enthusiast yet without a car could also be plottet and EV recharge friendly locations make something GM could vent their anger at :) Dan
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--- Begin Message ---Dale Ulan wrote: >> A lot of underhood electronic modules are not conformally coated, >> either. Parts are rated -40 to +125 deg.C. The board is then >> enclosed in a rather carefully engineered, watertight, air-breathing >> enclosure. Zeke Yewdall wrote: > Hmmm. Guess I shouldn't be using the pressure washer on my ICE engine > then, huh :) On my subaru, the ECU is under the dash, not under the > hood. But I've also driven through water deep enough that it flooded > my feet -- getting up towards the dash..... There are many ways to protect the electronics. Conformal coating is just one way; others include potting, hermetic sealing, submerging in oil or other insulating liquid, deliberately using large component spacings... and waterproof packaging, as Dale Ulan said. It doesn't matter how you do it -- just that you do *something* to keep water from shorting traces on the PC boards. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---There is also a frappr map http://www.frappr.com/ev/map. damonFrom: Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: EV world map Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:37:37 -0500There is a map we EV locations, it doesn't have the whole world on one map map, that probably would be too hard to read, (to much data, too small a screen).http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/geo I think there is one with charging stations out there somewhere. At 06:16 PM 7/6/2007, you wrote:hmm maybe 'we' could make an online map showing the EVs in the world that site with all the car projects might be a good host maybe EV enthusiast yet without a car could also be plottet and EV recharge friendly locations make something GM could vent their anger at :) Dan_________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com
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--- Begin Message --- The coolest tool for modifying cars is the "Jaws of Life". I got to practice one time in a firefighter class. You can heavily modify a car in a short time with those things. The other cool thing is that they are useful to save lives too!----- Original Message ----- From: "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:41 AM Subject: RE: SteelYeah, angle grinders are almost the coolest tool there is for modifying cars, especially if there's any rust involved, second onlyto wirefeed welders. Sawzalls are up there pretty high too though.
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--- Begin Message ---I'm trying to figure this posting out. Forgive my ignorance, please. I'm probably doing it wrong, or my ammeters are not accurate??? The surface I put the battery on doesn't seem to matter. I'm wondering if the reading could have more to do with ground potential? "They" tell me that, if I have a building some distance from my house, I need to put a ground rod at both locations, as they have different potentials. I'm wondering if that is what we are reading, not a loss through the battery? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 4:46 PM Subject: Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered > Batteries shall set on a bed of glass beads that are in a glass tray. <snip> > If you took a volt meter and put one lead on one of the post, and place the > other on the surface of the battery about 1/8 inch away from that post, you > will read a voltage. Now while keeping the one lead on the post and move > the other on the surface of the battery all the way to one edge, you will > still read some voltage. > > Roland
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--- Begin Message --- They speculated that the hot lighting destroyed one of the bearings. http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=01100000CMWKApparently it has some quantum/Heinseberg problem. The presence of an observer changes the process and it stops working.Anyhow, I'm only responding to give you some things to say to the guys who tell you you need to look into making a Steon powered car.The topic's dead. Danny Dan Frederiksen wrote:it's Steorn. and they crashed hard at the demo. no show. saga continues who knows. what a world Rob Hogenmiller wrote:Anyone seen the news on the Stoern project? (thoughts on it) Free Energy.
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--- Begin Message ---On 6 Jul 2007 at 18:22, Rob Hogenmiller wrote: > How does one search pasts posts,(those that were made before I subscribed)? The current EVDL archives are linked from the EVDL help page : http://www.evdl.org/help/ David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EV List Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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--- Begin Message ---It works On 7/5/07, David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:New e-mail address.
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--- Begin Message ---On 6 Jul 2007 at 18:26, Rob Hogenmiller wrote: > Anyone seen the news on the Stoern project? (thoughts on it) This topic is not an appropriate one for discussion on this list. Please read : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Thanks for your cooperation. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EV List Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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--- Begin Message ---www.electroauto.com Mike Brown has given classes in the _Santa Cruz_ area. Don't know if those are on this year or not. Otherwise, buy his book "Convert It", and chew up the web (wikipedia, or follow my link (below)). Best to you, --- jmmistrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Folks, > > Thought it might be wise to take a class before > starting my own > project... Anyone know of some good resources in the > by area? > > Thanks, > > jm > > Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too! Learn more at: www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html ____ __/__|__\ __ =D-------/ - - \ 'O'-----'O'-' Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
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--- Begin Message ---"There is a diode to only allow current to flow from the lead pack to the A123 pack." What's wrong with volts? "Let's say 40 A current limiter." At 40 amps you don't have much of a boost. "The lead pack has a higher voltage than the 123 pack, so it always charges the 123 pack." That sounds tricky to have another charger in your car to charge the A123. "Would this significantly improve the amount of usable energy you could get out of the basic flooded lead. I would think so because of limiting the discharge rate?" I don't think the change would be signifigant. "What effects would it have on the cycle life of the lead?" That depends. A battery not designed for sudden high power output would greatly benefit from having the A123's help out. For something like an Optima, I don't think the effect on life-cycle would be as great though. However, if you're only pulling 40 amps from your A123 pack at such a low voltage then the difference in power would be practically nothing! On 7/6/07, Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I am dreaming of a battery pack that consists of 30 groups of A123 cells, 5 cells per group. An array that is 5 cells in parallel with 30 in series. Not a very big or heavy pack. Not much energy storage either, but read on. Not even high voltage. Each cell is interconnected. There are bypass regulators on each block of cells limiting the max voltage to 4.0 or maybe 4.1 V. Notice that that is less than 100% charged. Thre is also a non-ressetable fuse in line with each and every cell to take care of catastrophic failure and runaway. Then, there is a battery pack of 12 V good old flooded lead, 10 batteries in series. There is a diode to only allow current to flow from the lead pack to the A123 pack. There is also a current limiter sized appropriately for maximum 1 way trip. 1/2 of your max range and the A123's go to 20% SOC. Let's say 40 A current limiter. Finally, there is a single contactor controlled by the voltage of the A123 pack. Less than the regulator voltage, it is on and the packs are connected. More than the regulator voltage and it is disconnected. The lead pack has a higher voltage than the 123 pack, so it always charges the 123 pack. The A123 cells will see. 1) Charge rate of 40 A / 5 = 8 A per cell (roughly) constant current up to 4.0 or 4.1 V per cell. 2) Discharge on the order of up to 350 A /5 = 70 A. Typical would be around 25 A. 3) They would be cycled a lot. 4) Max DOD could be limited to 80% / 20% SOC. Two questions: 1) How would the A123's hold up in this case where they are essentially used as capacitors? 2) Would this significantly improve the amount of usable energy you could get out of the basic flooded lead. I would think so because of limiting the discharge rate. 3) What effects would it have on the cycle life of the lead? This is one type of hybrid battery pack that I have considerered, but never built. So far, I have gone the other way and used low discharge rate on NiMH and Li Ion to boost charge the lead pack. But now, I am thinking I have it all wrong, and I should be doing the opposite. Keep the discharge rate on the lead low to maximize usable energy out (and maybe cycle life ????). The other way, the sole intent was to boost the lead SOC to improve cycle life. Really it had little to no effect on usable energy out of the lead pack, as far as I could see. That is with the slow charge rates off my small boost packs. Thoughts? Steve ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
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--- Begin Message ---It hit about 112 here today and the zilla overheated. It cut out as i was accelerating from a light (and just about snapped my neck when it came back and chirped the tires.) I have had this problem once before, but was unable to figure out why exactly it happens. Today I think I know. It has a tranny cooler up front that I never got the fan installed on it. It was cool to the touch, but the resivoir and the lines to the zilla were quiet warm. So this is a no flow problem, but I could hear the pump running. It is a sealed system (cpu cooler tank and pump. a little undersize) As soon as a loosed the cap and let some the pressure out, it began to pump again. So, Maybe a completely sealed system is not a good idea :-)
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--- Begin Message ---I've heard that the 5th gen Honda Civic has a crankshaft that rotates in the opposite direction of nearly every other gas engine of its time (92-95) Is this true? And just what is the direction that nearly all crankshafts spin in? On a side note.....What does "advancing" an electric motor mean?
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