Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:51:06 -0700
EV Digest 7015
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Another, fairer comparison
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Bradley GT Electric
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: LED headlights
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) "Remainder of Message Truncated" ( Was Re: todd pc25lv dc-dc ...)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Bradley GT Electric
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Passive (Parallel/Serial) Balancing
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EV Workshops
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Passive (Parallel/Serial) Balancing
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: limiting wire
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Short Range Battery Pack
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Zivan ICS 200 Avcon charging problem
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: fusing charger & DC/DC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Ideal EV configuration for my situation?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: a little thought problem for the list
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Speed Reducers in the Nose
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery Boxes and Heating
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Ping!
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Speed Reducers in the Nose
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Speed Reducers in the Nose
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) using a 12v volt meter to monitor traction voltage
by "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Ampabout, Long Distance WAS: Ping!
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Speed Reducers in the Nose
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Speed Reducers in the Nose
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Another, fairer comparison
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) how to modify signal to my stock tachometer
by "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Ideal EV configuration for my situation?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Hi Phil,Thanks for correcting me. I knew I wasn't getting it completely right. Regarding 11.715 kwh vs. kw, I drove 55 miles at 55 mph so I drove for an hour didn't I? I get what you're saying though. I worded it badly.At any rate, let's make a fairer comparison like you said. I saw a commercial last night that says the PriusSo a Prius at 60 mpg, consumes .01666 gallons per mile. That's 130000000 X .01666= 2,166,666 Joules consumed per mile. 2,166,666 joules/mile= 2,166,666 watt-seconds/mile X 1 hr/3600 s=601.85 watt-hr per mile.So: 1974 EV VW Beetle conversion: 213 wh/mile 2007 Toyota Prius: 602 wh/mile (Not including line losses, charger heat waste, etc) Much more competitive. Did I get it right? Rich A. _________________________________________________________________ http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
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--- Begin Message ---Don; For some reason your hyperlinks got doubled up. I took the liberty of correcting them for you. -- Stay Charged! Hump I-5, Blossvale NY -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Davidson Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:51 AM To: EV_Discussion_Group Subject: Bradley GT Electric If anyone owns or is restoring a Bradley GT Electric, I've created a website with photos, video & many pages of pdf documents that may assist with your project. Go to: http://public.orb.com/BradleyGT2 I still maintain other websites that have many links to EV sites: www.dbd3.spaces.live.com and www.elecars.spaces.live.com Hope these sites help Don B. Davidson III [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---That's pretty good. Around 57 lumens per Watt (probably less once the devices are mounted, though) is finally starting to encroach on compact fluorescent territory. They still have some way to go to achieve the same efficacy as the best linear fluorescents (80-100 l/W). This is the sort of device that might see prototype application in such EVs as the original Solectria Sunrise (probably not Lee Hart's revision) or Horlacher Carbon (<80 Wh/mi!), if they were being designed today. These EVs were tweaked for the ultimate in efficiency. For conversion EVs, the improvement in efficiency probably still wouldn't be worth the substantial effort and expense. But I can see some folks here applying them for the "coolness factor." LEDs are popularly perceived as efficient, even though in several common applications they aren't that advantageous.
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--- Begin Message ---On 11 Jul 2007 at 1:43, patrick DonEgan wrote: > Why do I get this message SO much??? > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- * > > * This post contains a forbidden message format ... [etc.] 1. Because several of the most popular email systems default to sending html or multipart/alternative text, rather than plain text only. 2. Because the EVDL listserver (imperfectly) strips out the html. It does this to prevent the spread of malware, and to minimize bandwidth and server load. 3. Because at least one popular email client can't show plain text in multipart/alternative messages, but always insists on displaying the (stripped) html. 4. Because gas prices are up. When gas prices go up, we get lots of new EVDL members. Many of them use email systems which send html or multipart/alternative messages by default. As I see these messages cross the list, I send the members private email asking them to configure their systems for plain text. I include instructions for the most common systems. There's a very small number who apparently can't or won't setup their mail for plain text. But for the most part, they realize that by sending html they're limiting the audience for their posts. Most of them take care of it right away without complaint, for which I'm grateful. David Roden EVDL Administrator http://www.evdl.org/
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--- Begin Message ---* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- * * This post contains a forbidden message format * * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) * * Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT * * If your postings display this message your mail program * * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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--- Begin Message ---At 10:42 AM 7/11/2007, you wrote:Can I leave the series connectors in place, disconnect the pack, and add parallel connectors to make one huge 12v amp-bucket? Would this pack then naturally balance itself over time?Yep and it won't take all that long to get to the balanced state. All batteries will be equally destroyed. __________ Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
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--- Begin Message --- Sorry we have been off-list for a couple months. We have been running our butts off to keep up with the business.But I did want to let all of you know about two upcoming EV workshops we are doing. One is a free one-day lecture sponsored by the EAA in Palo Alto on Aug. 26. The other is a paid 6-day hands-on do-a-complete-conversion workshop sponsored by Solar Energy Int'l. on Guermes Island in WA state in early Nov. Pre-registration is required for both, and space is limited. See http://www.electroauto.com/workshopEAA-SEI.shtml for complete details.Hope to see many of you there! Shari Prange Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989 http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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--- Begin Message ---Jim, You can't leave the series connectors in place while adding parallel jumpers. You'll short the batteries. You mention that you're not in a hurry, so I'd suggest just putting the single charger on each battery in turn, changing batteries each day. In a month you will have covered all the batteries. This assumes that the charger has a proper profile for your batteries. Ralph Jim Davis writes: > > I have a string of 24 (12v, gel Size 31, 100ahC/20) which is massively > out-of-balance (with individual OCV measurements ranging from 11.0 to > 12.8). Individual charging with my single ~10a 12v charger is a slow > process. I don't want to put the string on my 10kw 330v charger until my > string is balanced. I am in no hurry (I have other things to work on), so > I was wondering... > > Can I balance this string passively, over time? > > Can I leave the series connectors in place, disconnect the pack, and add > parallel connectors to make one huge 12v amp-bucket? Would this pack then > naturally balance itself over time? > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! > FareChase. > http://farechase.yahoo.com/ >
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--- Begin Message ---Tom S. wrote: > I`ve worked on about 30 conversions, theres no way you can > push a 4 wheel car as easy as mine, we disagree again. We don't agree or disagree, not that it matters either way. Until you are willing to actually *measure* how much force it takes to push or pull your vehicle on level surface you are not going to convince anyone one way or the other. I find it astounding that you have been working on this vehicle ("testing" it) for so long and yet do not appear to have actually bothered to make any measurements of it and a standard vehicle so that you could verify if any of your goals/claims are met or indeed if what you have built is in any way an improvement over the status quo, other than being "really fun to drive" and "highly maneouverable" of course. > By the way here some facts about our car > There is no left and right front end suspension, tires, ball > joints,tie rods,steering wheel,steering column,gas engine,no > transmission,and no beefed up frame in the front of the car > to hold this stuff.Thats at least a 1000lbs of crap this car > does not have.Now put batteries there instead. Too bad your > conversion has all that crap in it. No need to worry about my conversion, as I've stated it weighs very similar to your claimed "about 1000lbs" for the Evette, both without batteries. By the way, my EV doesn't have a gas engine either ;^> All that beefed up frame and front suspension and tranny mine has really doesn't seem to have caused it to weigh appreciably more than yours, yet mine seats 4 instead of 2, and I can sleep a bit easier knowing that my car has been tested to perform acceptably in a collision. > There is no you can enough batteries in a conversion. Enough for what? I built my EV to commute between work and home with and it carries plenty of batteries for that task. Apparently, lots of others on this list have found that they can fit enough batteries into their conversions to make the vehicles useful to them. Some years ago, John Wayland built a Toyota pickup conversion that carried 40 T105 golf cart batteries (~2680lbs), which was over half the total weight of the vehicle: <http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/37> On its own, this EV demonstrated the ability to travel over 100mi at freeway speeds and towing another 5000lbs of trailer loaded with EVs it went 50mi at freeway speeds. Of course, it doesn't matter how many batteries you put into a particular vehicle, ultimately the range will still be too short for someone's particular needs. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but until you actually measure your vehicle's performance so it can be objectively compared to the status quo the only facts you can state are what bits it does or does not have, and what you ~believe~, such as that it is really fun to drive. (Speaking of facts, I believe your website states or implies that you have patented some aspect of your vehicle design; can you provide the patent #? A search of the US patent office for patents associated with the name 'Tom Sines' doesn't turn up anything.) Rick Woodbury is another who built a vehicle quite different from the status quo (the Tango), and he didn't just state his belief that it was stable and highly maneouverable, he took it to autocross events and proved it. The suggestion that you take your vehicle to an autocross event is quite reasonable. No one disputes the low-speed maneouverability of your vehicle, but by and large that is not considered a significant advantage. As far as we know, there isn't any overwhelming problem with parking conventional vehicles (and I for one have no desire to share the road with drivers so unskilled that they cannot manage the simple task of parking ;^) Your vehicle may indeed raise the bar for some aspect(s) of EV performance, but without actual measurements there is no way for anyone to be sure. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---Zeke Yewdall wrote:Not sure i understand the heat shrink question... you [can't] split heat shrink because it relys on the hoop tension of a complete circle to hold on. If it's split, it'll just peel itself off when you shrink it. Can't you just unbolt the connection and slip in on?Heatshrink tubing has been stretched in diameter, so its diameter (but not length) shrinks when heated. If you split it lengthwise, when it shrinks it will fail to reach all the way around the wire, and so will just fall off.There is heatshrink *tape*, that shrinks lengthwise (but not in width) when heated. You can wrap it around a wire, then shrink it to tighten it in place.Or, as Zeke suggests, you can just use a big enough diameter piece of heatshrink tubing to slide over the terminal, and shrink it normally. If the tubing isn't quite big enough, you can stretch it a bit further first. I use needle nosed pliers for this; slide the tubing over the jaws, then open the jaws to stretch it as needed. Note that it "springs back" fairly quickly to its unshrunk size, so you have to work fast.-- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I'm ready to buy batteries now for my conversion... 77 datsun 280z... 48v forklift motor... I want a short range EV with lots of pickup...I think I also want AGM's... I would like to know what is the cheapest pack I can put together with greater than 140v and range for5 to 10 miles...I don't want sophisticated. Just cheap and fairly light, small.That is a formula for a very short battery life. If that is acceptable (for example, you just want a car to race on weekends, then I would suggest some cheap flooded combination marine/starting batteries. They won't last long (maybe 100 cycles), but are cheap and will deliver the high currents for a high "fun" factor. AGMs to do the same thing will cost 2-3 times more. They can last twice as long *if* you use a good charger and BMS (battery management system). If you use a cheap charger and no BMS, the AGMs will also die in 100-200 cycles. Perhaps the cheapest way to get low cost and still be able to draw high currents for fast acceleration is to get *used* AGM batteries. The ones that are used in large UPS power supplies are often automatically replaced every 2-3 years, and available surplus for perhaps 1/2 to 1/4 of their cost new. You could use them with simple chargers and a very primitive BMS. They would die quickly, but at least are cheap. A range of only 5-10 miles and fast driving means you are discharging the batteries in perhaps 15 minutes at most. This is really the forte of things like the BB600 nicad aircraft starting batteries. You can sometimes find them surplus for very good prices. The downside is that they require a *lot* of work to rejevante, install, and maintain. But if you have lots of time and little money, they would make a very fast short-range EV! And, they have the potential to last a long time -- they are more likely to die from screw-ups and abuse than from being worn out.I was told by Jim that 144v might get me decent performance with advanced brushes.144v is possible on a 48v forklift motor; but it will require some rebuilding and finesse, which will cost time/money. Don't expect to just twist the brush assembly and go.How successful you will be with your project depends on just how cheaply you want to do it, and how much performance you expect. You won't get silk-purse performance out of sows-ear parts unless you know a *lot* about what you are doing, and are willing to put a *lot* of time in it.I suppose some people might say, "John Wayland is driving an old Datsun with a forklift motor and a bunch of little batteries; see how well he's doing?" But this totally ignores the *huge* amount of time, money, and talent that has gone into his car!-- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---JS wrote:I have a Zivan NG3 switching charger in my EV. It has a power factor of 0.68. It has an internal fuse of 20 Amps. I have an AVCON adapter box. I can charge on some public chargers, but some of the ICS-200 units shut down after 1 minute.I am planning a simple low-pass L filter to see if this eliminates the problem.It will certainly help. Pick the L and C values for the best power factor at full load (where the ICS-200 would trip off). At lower power levels, you need different values for L and C for best power factor, but that won't matter as the ICS-200 won't trip there (it just measures peak current).I have two 0.005 Henry inductors, 22.5 Ampere rated, and 0.03 Ohm.I have a large number of 10 and 50 microFarad capacitors, oil filled, rated at 600 Volts.With the two inductors (in series) placed in series with 300 microFarads I calculate a resonate frequency of 91 Hz.I calculated the inductive reactance at 60 Hz at 3.77 Ohms,> and the capacitive reactance as 4.4 Ohms.You don't want resonance; this would lead to very large peak voltages and currents. "Best" power factor is a complicated matter. Your best bet is to get a simple power factor meter (such as a Kill-A-Watt; about $30), or a true-RMS ammeter (about $60), and experiment to find the values that give the best power factor or the lowest AC line RMS current for a given DC output current.Adding just one of your 5 mH inductors alone in series with the charger's AC input is probably all you'll need. Even that may be too much.If you add capacitance, it goes directly across the charger's AC input, after the inductor.-- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:should the fusing to protect the DC side of the battery charger and DC/DC converter (156 VDC) be a time delay fuse or fast acting fuse?These fuses are to prevent a fire in case parts in the charger or DC/DC fail. Without a fuse, a failure could short the batteries through the charger or DC/DC wiring. This could lead to *enormous* currents and a serious risk of fire. So, this fuse can be slow-blow without a problem.The ceramic time delay has the limitation of 125 VDC The fast acting is rated at 600 VDCThe time delay depends on the type of fuse; not on whether it is ceramic or not. In general, faster fuses can handle more voltage, because they have to carry the fault current for a shorter length of time.-- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Matthew Chan wrote:it seems that I would have to buy a junk mercedes for the transmissionYou don't actually need a transmission for an EV. If this Mercedes is one with the engine+transmission in front, and differential in the rear, you can replace *both* the engine and transmission with an electric motor. All purpose-built EVs have no transmission. Electric motors don't need them. We only have transmissions in EV conversions, because a) it was already there (i.e. it was "free") and b) if there is a transmission, you can use a little smaller electric motor and controller. So, I'd look into leaving the transmission out, and using a size or two larger motor and controller to compensate.In light of the fact that regen with the series wound DC (probably myonly option if the solectria is not doable) is not available, I was wondering if there would be any other option.Regen is certainly available on DC systems; even DC systems with series motors. It's just that regen with a series motor is harder (i.e. more expensive). The cheapest EV drive system option is a DC series motor and controller without regen. Most people want "cheap" above all else. So, almost all the DC series motor options being marketed have no regen.I've heard about compressed nitrogen regen systems and other systems along those lines. How doable are those? I'd imagine they have much higher efficiency than electrical regen systems.No; they actually have lower efficiencies. The cheapest/simplest regen system is the alternator that the Mercedes already came with. Belt drive it from the electric motor, just like it was for the ICE. Add a relay that enables the alternator only when you step on the brake pedal to turn the brake lights on. Now the alternator does nothing in normal driving, and the 12v system is running off the 12v accessory battery. When you step on the brakes, the alternator comes on, sees the partially discharged battery, and charges like mad. You get mild regen "engine braking" effect.I'm willing to have a slightly chillier car, since I'm pretty much acclimatized to the -30C winters anyways. A heater is a must, but it probably wouldn't see very heavy use.Electric heaters aren't that big a power-waster. I live in Minnesota now, and have lived in Michigan and New York -- all places with real winters like Toronto. Electric heat uses perhaps 10% of your battery power, so it reduces range by about 10% in winter. The *real* range penalty in winter comes from letting your batteries get cold. You have to put them in insulated boxes, with a little heating pad to keep them at 25 deg.C or so even in winter. This isn't hard to do if you plan for it. 1 inch of styrafoam insulation and a 100 watt heating pad are all it takes.I've read mostly about AC systems, but should I be looking for high voltage and low Ah or vice versa?The only AC systems available are high voltage; so you pretty much have to use about 300v worth of batteries to use one. DC systems are available in any voltage. Anything from 72v to 300v is possible. In general, lower voltage systems are cheaper and easier; higher voltage systems provide faster acceleration and higher top speeds.lets say for the moment that the vehicle will be 4500lbs converted. I'm not sure what I should use for the motor.A vehicle of this weight will need about 10-20 HP for around-town driving, and 20-40 HP for high-speed freeway driving. Use the higher number for a transmissionless EV, or the lower one if you have a transmission. Any power in excess of this provides your power for acceleration and hill-climbing. 1 HP is about 1 KW, when you take efficiency into account.The ADC and netgain ones seem suitableYes, the larger ones will work. In a 4500 lbs vehicle, use the 9" motor with a transmission, or the 11" motor without a transmission.is it possible to find a better deal for a series wound DC from industrial surplus stores or direct from the manufacturers?You can always find lower prices used or surplus. One nice thing about electric motors is that they almost never wear out, and can almost always be rebuilt. But, your EV may wind up with a motor that wasn't built for the application. For instance, forklift motors are generally built for lower voltages and lower speeds; but people use them anyway in EVs to save money.Is cramming as many T-105s into the vehicle as possible a good idea? I should have the weight capacity specs of the car soon.It depends on your goals. Golf cart batteries give you the lowest cost per mile, and fairly good range if you use enough of them. But they also lead you toward a heavy slow-moving vehicle.-- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Michael Wendell wrote:okay, my boss here at the bike shop has a very nice 1978 mercedes-benz unimog 406 DoKa... weighs almost 4 tons... so, can it be done? what's the best solution?Oh, sure; it can be done. There are plenty of electric buses, trains, and other heavy vehicles.Like all vehicles, you start off by looking at its curb weight, and its GVWR. To be successful as an EV, it will need to be able carry a significant fraction of its total weight in batteries.Trucks are often pretty good at this. Let's say this one would weigh 3 tons without the ICE and related parts, and its GVWR is 5 tons. Then it can carry 2 tons of batteries. That's 2/5 = 40% batteries; not bad at all. Range could be surprisingly good.A 6' x 6' flatbed could hold about 70 golf cart batteries. At 60 lbs each, that's pretty close to 2 tons worth. At present prices, that's about $5000 worth.You'd want one heck of a big motor; something out of a city bus, for example. Or if the drive train lends itself to it, use several motors, one per axle.For a controller, again, an electric city bus could be a good source. 70 6v batteries is a 420v pack, and I believe the city buses are 480v systems.Such a vehicle would have *no* trouble plowing snow! All that weight, and the brute force power of a big DC drive would make it unstoppable. Think about the "puny" GE Electrak garden tractors!So, it's all possible. There might even be some federal funds or tax breaks for such a big alternative-fuel vehicle. Are you up for a *big* project?-- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---On the topic of high performancing a Tropica, Bob Schneeviess suggests: "Two 8"s with 5 to 1 speed reducers in the nose, driving driveshafts direct to the hubs.What exactly is meant by "speed reducers" in the nose? Is there a link where I can see a picture of them?This just means placing a 5:1 gear reduction between the motor shaft and the wheels. The "nose" of the motor is the shaft end.-- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Tehben Dean wrote:Has anyone used Prodex Total Insulation? foil-foam-foil 14.5 R Value http://www.insulation4less.com/prodex_Ffmf.aspBe aware that this R value is marketing bullshit.When you dig into the fine print, you will find that this R 14.5 is the value of this foil-foam insulation *plus* the normal 4" air space found inside a typical ceiling. The air provides almost all the insulation; their cheap foam and bubble pack does almost nothing.-- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Lee Hart wrote: >This just means placing a 5:1 gear reduction between the motor shaft and >the wheels. The "nose" of the motor is the shaft end. Lee, I guess my question was a little vague. I understood what Bob meant. I was just trying to figure out physically what he might be referring to. As you know, the Tropica already has a 5.2:1 reduction via a belt drive. Bob's remark seemed to indicate something more direct, like a planetary gear, or a 1-gear-only transmission. I was just trying to get some help determining exactly what this would be that could fit in the space available, and possible a link to a picture. Bill Dennis -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE
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--- Begin Message ---Lee Hart wrote: >This just means placing a 5:1 gear reduction between the motor shaft and >the wheels. The "nose" of the motor is the shaft end. I have two Tropica chassis. One is in the original configuration, as I described in my previous post, with the motor as unsprung weight. The second chassis, however, has been modified so that the motor has become sprung weight. A stiffener was added to the floor pan behind each seat, and the motor is attached there in such a way that the shaft of the motor lines up exactly with the pivot point of the rear suspension. Therefore, as the suspension moves up and down, the motor and wheel sprockets always remain the same distance from each other. It seemed pretty clever to me; does anyone have pros/cons that they can see about this configuration? Thanks. Bill Dennis -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web
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--- Begin Message ---Hi, Instead of using older looking gauges, I will be using more modern type gauges. see: http://tinyurl.com/2desan for example for the vac gauge I'll be using. Is there anything inherently wrong with using a 12v dc voltmeter gague (designed for the acc battery in ICEs)? I would just use a simple voltage divider where R is th input resistance to the meter and put a 9R resistor in series with the meter so it sees 1/10 of the pack voltage. Heating souldn't be an issue in the 9R since the input resistance to the meter should be pretty high anyway. No problems, right? TIA -- Brian in TX http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960 http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/ It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm really quite busy.
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--- Begin Message ---I assume he was talking about using a gear motor and coupling it's shaft directly to the axle shaft of a FWD type drive setup (think CV joints). Of course this means that you'll have to build the "gear" part of the gear motor; which is something I would expect Bob to dive right into and do without hesitation. here's a small gear motor for illustration.... http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007071113354092&item=5-1391 -- Stay Charged! Hump I-5, Blossvale NY > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 2:22 PM > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu > Subject: Re: Speed Reducers in the Nose > > Lee Hart wrote: > >>This just means placing a 5:1 gear reduction between the motor shaft > and >>the wheels. The "nose" of the motor is the shaft end. > > Lee, I guess my question was a little vague. I understood what Bob > meant. > I was just trying to figure out physically what he might be referring > to. > As you know, the Tropica already has a 5.2:1 reduction via a belt drive. > > Bob's remark seemed to indicate something more direct, like a planetary > gear, or a 1-gear-only transmission. I was just trying to get some help > determining exactly what this would be that could fit in the space > available, and possible a link to a picture. > > Bill Dennis > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web LIVE - Free email based on Microsoft(r) Exchange technology
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--- Begin Message ---Couldn't you just put a CV shaft on the end of the motor, to allow it to be sprung weight? That's how all the rear driveline of subaru's, and the front driveline of most 4x4 trucks without solid axles are designed -- the differential is mounted to the bottom of the vehical, and a CV shaft goes out to each wheel, which is the only unsprung weight. In a single motor setup, drive the input to the differential with the motor, in a dual motor setup, each motor has it's own CV shaft going to it's wheel. On 7/11/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Lee Hart wrote: >This just means placing a 5:1 gear reduction between the motor shaft and >the wheels. The "nose" of the motor is the shaft end. I have two Tropica chassis. One is in the original configuration, as I described in my previous post, with the motor as unsprung weight. The second chassis, however, has been modified so that the motor has become sprung weight. A stiffener was added to the floor pan behind each seat, and the motor is attached there in such a way that the shaft of the motor lines up exactly with the pivot point of the rear suspension. Therefore, as the suspension moves up and down, the motor and wheel sprockets always remain the same distance from each other. It seemed pretty clever to me; does anyone have pros/cons that they can see about this configuration? Thanks. Bill Dennis -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web-- Zeke Yewdall Chief Electrical Engineer Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company Cell: 720.352.2508 Office: 303.459.0177 FAX documents to: 720.269.1240 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cosunflower.com CoSEIA Certified Certified BP Solar Installer National Association of Home Builders Quotable Quote "In the dark of the moon, in flying snow, in the dead of winter, war spreading, families dying, the world in danger, I walk the rocky hillside sowing clover." Wendell Berry
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--- Begin Message ---Richard, your 213 wh/mile is an interesting number, because that's exactly what Prius calculations show at 55 MPH, see http://privatenrg.com/#Bill_Moores for detail. Now, if the Prius is actually burning 602 wh of gas to provide 213 wh to the wheels, then the Prius' efficiency is 213/602 = 35%, which is right in line with claims. But, for a really fairer comparison, you need to determine how many wh of coal or oil or gas was burned to create the electricity that ended up as 213 wh at your car's wheels. Bill Dennis Original Message: ----------------- From: Richard Acuti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:49:23 -0400 To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Another, fairer comparison Hi Phil, Thanks for correcting me. I knew I wasn't getting it completely right. Regarding 11.715 kwh vs. kw, I drove 55 miles at 55 mph so I drove for an hour didn't I? I get what you're saying though. I worded it badly. At any rate, let's make a fairer comparison like you said. I saw a commercial last night that says the Prius So a Prius at 60 mpg, consumes .01666 gallons per mile. That's 130000000 X .01666= 2,166,666 Joules consumed per mile. 2,166,666 joules/mile= 2,166,666 watt-seconds/mile X 1 hr/3600 s=601.85 watt-hr per mile. So: 1974 EV VW Beetle conversion: 213 wh/mile 2007 Toyota Prius: 602 wh/mile (Not including line losses, charger heat waste, etc) Much more competitive. Did I get it right? Rich A. _________________________________________________________________ http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio n_HM_mini_2G_0507 -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft® Windows® and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting
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--- Begin Message ---Hello again, I have a newer car that uses a ECM for most of the ICE stuff and I'd like to get rid of the ECM (going for ~$400 on EBay). I want to use my stock tach (for looks and especially since its redline is very close to the stock tach in there now [ice was a diesel tdi]). The signal from the ECM to the cluster computer is a square wave 0-5 V (TTL I'm guessing) 1 pulse/rev. Since I've not dealt with tachs in the past and there isn't much info on the web, i'm not sure what to do. I s there anything that off the shelf that can make such a signal OR what combination of pickup + an analog circuit that could do the same? Thanks. -- Brian in TX http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960 http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/ It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm really quite busy.
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--- Begin Message ---A couple of counterpoints: I agree with Lee that purpose built, street speeds electric vehicles go without the tranny, like up to about 160 km/hr (100 mph). Purpose built cars that want to go faster (Tesla Roadster, Buckeye Bullet) use a transmission with multiple gear ratios. Even if you are not going for a land speed record, here are some counterpoint reasons to keep a tranny: * The successful transmissionless street conversions use 2 electric motors. Using 1 electric motor and the tranny is cheaper. * You can get faster acceleration (like 0 to 30 mph) with a transmission if you have lower voltage or a cheaper controller. * You don't have to use a Mercedes transmission. You might be able to use something like a Chevy S10 transmission, but you'd have to fabricate new mounts and maybe a new clutch linkage. ----- Original Message ---- From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:31:10 AM Subject: Re: Ideal EV configuration for my situation? Matthew Chan wrote: > it seems that I would have to buy a junk mercedes for the > transmission You don't actually need a transmission for an EV. If this Mercedes is one with the engine+transmission in front, and differential in the rear, you can replace *both* the engine and transmission with an electric motor. All purpose-built EVs have no transmission. Electric motors don't need them. We only have transmissions in EV conversions, because a) it was already there (i.e. it was "free") and b) if there is a transmission, you can use a little smaller electric motor and controller. So, I'd look into leaving the transmission out, and using a size or two larger motor and controller to compensate. > In light of the fact that regen with the series wound DC (probably my > only option if the solectria is not doable) is not available, I was > wondering if there would be any other option. Regen is certainly available on DC systems; even DC systems with series motors. It's just that regen with a series motor is harder (i.e. more expensive). The cheapest EV drive system option is a DC series motor and controller without regen. Most people want "cheap" above all else. So, almost all the DC series motor options being marketed have no regen. ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/
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