EV Digest 7015
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Another, fairer comparison
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Bradley GT Electric
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: LED headlights
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) "Remainder of Message Truncated" ( Was Re: todd pc25lv dc-dc ...)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Bradley GT Electric
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Passive (Parallel/Serial) Balancing
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EV Workshops
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Passive (Parallel/Serial) Balancing
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: limiting wire
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Short Range Battery Pack
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Zivan ICS 200 Avcon charging problem
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: fusing charger & DC/DC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Ideal EV configuration for my situation?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: a little thought problem for the list
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Speed Reducers in the Nose
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery Boxes and Heating
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Ping!
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Speed Reducers in the Nose
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Speed Reducers in the Nose
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) using a 12v volt meter to monitor traction voltage
by "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Ampabout, Long Distance WAS: Ping!
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Speed Reducers in the Nose
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Speed Reducers in the Nose
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Another, fairer comparison
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) how to modify signal to my stock tachometer
by "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Ideal EV configuration for my situation?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Phil,
Thanks for correcting me. I knew I wasn't getting it completely right.
Regarding 11.715 kwh vs. kw, I drove 55 miles at 55 mph so I drove for an
hour didn't I? I get what you're saying though. I worded it badly.
At any rate, let's make a fairer comparison like you said. I saw a
commercial last night that says the Prius
So a Prius at 60 mpg, consumes .01666 gallons per mile. That's 130000000 X
.01666= 2,166,666 Joules consumed per mile. 2,166,666 joules/mile= 2,166,666
watt-seconds/mile X 1 hr/3600 s=601.85 watt-hr per mile.
So:
1974 EV VW Beetle conversion: 213 wh/mile
2007 Toyota Prius: 602 wh/mile
(Not including line losses, charger heat waste, etc) Much more competitive.
Did I get it right?
Rich A.
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don;
For some reason your hyperlinks got doubled up. I took the liberty of
correcting them for you.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Davidson
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:51 AM
To: EV_Discussion_Group
Subject: Bradley GT Electric
If anyone owns or is restoring a Bradley GT Electric, I've created a website
with photos, video & many pages of pdf documents that may assist with your
project.
Go to: http://public.orb.com/BradleyGT2
I still maintain other websites that have many links to EV sites:
www.dbd3.spaces.live.com and www.elecars.spaces.live.com
Hope these sites help
Don B. Davidson III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's pretty good. Around 57 lumens per Watt (probably less once the
devices are mounted, though) is finally starting to encroach on compact
fluorescent territory. They still have some way to go to achieve the same
efficacy as the best linear fluorescents (80-100 l/W).
This is the sort of device that might see prototype application in such EVs as
the original Solectria Sunrise (probably not Lee Hart's revision) or Horlacher
Carbon (<80 Wh/mi!), if they were being designed today. These EVs were
tweaked for the ultimate in efficiency.
For conversion EVs, the improvement in efficiency probably still wouldn't be
worth the substantial effort and expense. But I can see some folks here
applying them for the "coolness factor." LEDs are popularly perceived as
efficient, even though in several common applications they aren't that
advantageous.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 11 Jul 2007 at 1:43, patrick DonEgan wrote:
> Why do I get this message SO much???
>
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
> > * This post contains a forbidden message format ... [etc.]
1. Because several of the most popular email systems default to sending
html or multipart/alternative text, rather than plain text only.
2. Because the EVDL listserver (imperfectly) strips out the html. It does this
to prevent the spread of malware, and to minimize bandwidth and server load.
3. Because at least one popular email client can't show plain text in
multipart/alternative messages, but always insists on displaying the
(stripped) html.
4. Because gas prices are up.
When gas prices go up, we get lots of new EVDL members. Many of them
use email systems which send html or multipart/alternative messages by
default.
As I see these messages cross the list, I send the members private email
asking them to configure their systems for plain text. I include instructions
for the most common systems.
There's a very small number who apparently can't or won't setup their mail for
plain text. But for the most part, they realize that by sending html they're
limiting the audience for their posts. Most of them take care of it right
away
without complaint, for which I'm grateful.
David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:42 AM 7/11/2007, you wrote:
Can I leave the series connectors in place, disconnect the pack, and add
parallel connectors to make one huge 12v amp-bucket? Would this pack then
naturally balance itself over time?
Yep and it won't take all that long to get to the balanced state.
All batteries will be equally destroyed.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry we have been off-list for a couple months. We have been
running our butts off to keep up with the business.
But I did want to let all of you know about two upcoming EV workshops
we are doing. One is a free one-day lecture sponsored by the EAA in
Palo Alto on Aug. 26. The other is a paid 6-day hands-on
do-a-complete-conversion workshop sponsored by Solar Energy Int'l. on
Guermes Island in WA state in early Nov. Pre-registration is
required for both, and space is limited. See
http://www.electroauto.com/workshopEAA-SEI.shtml for complete details.
Hope to see many of you there!
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
You can't leave the series connectors in place while adding parallel
jumpers. You'll short the batteries.
You mention that you're not in a hurry, so I'd suggest just putting the
single charger on each battery in turn, changing batteries each day. In
a month you will have covered all the batteries. This assumes that the
charger has a proper profile for your batteries.
Ralph
Jim Davis writes:
>
> I have a string of 24 (12v, gel Size 31, 100ahC/20) which is massively
> out-of-balance (with individual OCV measurements ranging from 11.0 to
> 12.8). Individual charging with my single ~10a 12v charger is a slow
> process. I don't want to put the string on my 10kw 330v charger until my
> string is balanced. I am in no hurry (I have other things to work on), so
> I was wondering...
>
> Can I balance this string passively, over time?
>
> Can I leave the series connectors in place, disconnect the pack, and add
> parallel connectors to make one huge 12v amp-bucket? Would this pack then
> naturally balance itself over time?
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
> FareChase.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom S. wrote:
> I`ve worked on about 30 conversions, theres no way you can
> push a 4 wheel car as easy as mine, we disagree again.
We don't agree or disagree, not that it matters either way.
Until you are willing to actually *measure* how much force it takes to
push or pull your vehicle on level surface you are not going to convince
anyone one way or the other.
I find it astounding that you have been working on this vehicle
("testing" it) for so long and yet do not appear to have actually
bothered to make any measurements of it and a standard vehicle so that
you could verify if any of your goals/claims are met or indeed if what
you have built is in any way an improvement over the status quo, other
than being "really fun to drive" and "highly maneouverable" of course.
> By the way here some facts about our car
> There is no left and right front end suspension, tires, ball
> joints,tie rods,steering wheel,steering column,gas engine,no
> transmission,and no beefed up frame in the front of the car
> to hold this stuff.Thats at least a 1000lbs of crap this car
> does not have.Now put batteries there instead. Too bad your
> conversion has all that crap in it.
No need to worry about my conversion, as I've stated it weighs very
similar to your claimed "about 1000lbs" for the Evette, both without
batteries. By the way, my EV doesn't have a gas engine either ;^> All
that beefed up frame and front suspension and tranny mine has really
doesn't seem to have caused it to weigh appreciably more than yours, yet
mine seats 4 instead of 2, and I can sleep a bit easier knowing that my
car has been tested to perform acceptably in a collision.
> There is no you can enough batteries in a conversion.
Enough for what? I built my EV to commute between work and home with
and it carries plenty of batteries for that task. Apparently, lots of
others on this list have found that they can fit enough batteries into
their conversions to make the vehicles useful to them.
Some years ago, John Wayland built a Toyota pickup conversion that
carried 40 T105 golf cart batteries (~2680lbs), which was over half the
total weight of the vehicle:
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/37>
On its own, this EV demonstrated the ability to travel over 100mi at
freeway speeds and towing another 5000lbs of trailer loaded with EVs it
went 50mi at freeway speeds. Of course, it doesn't matter how many
batteries you put into a particular vehicle, ultimately the range will
still be too short for someone's particular needs.
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but until you actually measure your vehicle's
performance so it can be objectively compared to the status quo the only
facts you can state are what bits it does or does not have, and what you
~believe~, such as that it is really fun to drive. (Speaking of facts,
I believe your website states or implies that you have patented some
aspect of your vehicle design; can you provide the patent #? A search of
the US patent office for patents associated with the name 'Tom Sines'
doesn't turn up anything.)
Rick Woodbury is another who built a vehicle quite different from the
status quo (the Tango), and he didn't just state his belief that it was
stable and highly maneouverable, he took it to autocross events and
proved it. The suggestion that you take your vehicle to an autocross
event is quite reasonable. No one disputes the low-speed
maneouverability of your vehicle, but by and large that is not
considered a significant advantage. As far as we know, there isn't any
overwhelming problem with parking conventional vehicles (and I for one
have no desire to share the road with drivers so unskilled that they
cannot manage the simple task of parking ;^)
Your vehicle may indeed raise the bar for some aspect(s) of EV
performance, but without actual measurements there is no way for anyone
to be sure.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
Not sure i understand the heat shrink question... you [can't] split heat
shrink because it relys on the hoop tension of a complete circle to
hold on. If it's split, it'll just peel itself off when you shrink
it. Can't you just unbolt the connection and slip in on?
Heatshrink tubing has been stretched in diameter, so its diameter (but
not length) shrinks when heated. If you split it lengthwise, when it
shrinks it will fail to reach all the way around the wire, and so will
just fall off.
There is heatshrink *tape*, that shrinks lengthwise (but not in width)
when heated. You can wrap it around a wire, then shrink it to tighten it
in place.
Or, as Zeke suggests, you can just use a big enough diameter piece of
heatshrink tubing to slide over the terminal, and shrink it normally. If
the tubing isn't quite big enough, you can stretch it a bit further
first. I use needle nosed pliers for this; slide the tubing over the
jaws, then open the jaws to stretch it as needed. Note that it "springs
back" fairly quickly to its unshrunk size, so you have to work fast.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm ready to buy batteries now for my conversion... 77 datsun 280z...
48v forklift motor... I want a short range EV with lots of pickup...
I think I also want AGM's... I would like to know what is the
cheapest pack I can put together with greater than 140v and range for
5 to 10 miles...
I don't want sophisticated. Just cheap and fairly light, small.
That is a formula for a very short battery life. If that is acceptable
(for example, you just want a car to race on weekends, then I would
suggest some cheap flooded combination marine/starting batteries. They
won't last long (maybe 100 cycles), but are cheap and will deliver the
high currents for a high "fun" factor.
AGMs to do the same thing will cost 2-3 times more. They can last twice
as long *if* you use a good charger and BMS (battery management system).
If you use a cheap charger and no BMS, the AGMs will also die in 100-200
cycles.
Perhaps the cheapest way to get low cost and still be able to draw high
currents for fast acceleration is to get *used* AGM batteries. The ones
that are used in large UPS power supplies are often automatically
replaced every 2-3 years, and available surplus for perhaps 1/2 to 1/4
of their cost new. You could use them with simple chargers and a very
primitive BMS. They would die quickly, but at least are cheap.
A range of only 5-10 miles and fast driving means you are discharging
the batteries in perhaps 15 minutes at most. This is really the forte of
things like the BB600 nicad aircraft starting batteries. You can
sometimes find them surplus for very good prices. The downside is that
they require a *lot* of work to rejevante, install, and maintain. But if
you have lots of time and little money, they would make a very fast
short-range EV! And, they have the potential to last a long time -- they
are more likely to die from screw-ups and abuse than from being worn out.
I was told by Jim that 144v might get me decent performance with
advanced brushes.
144v is possible on a 48v forklift motor; but it will require some
rebuilding and finesse, which will cost time/money. Don't expect to just
twist the brush assembly and go.
How successful you will be with your project depends on just how cheaply
you want to do it, and how much performance you expect. You won't get
silk-purse performance out of sows-ear parts unless you know a *lot*
about what you are doing, and are willing to put a *lot* of time in it.
I suppose some people might say, "John Wayland is driving an old Datsun
with a forklift motor and a bunch of little batteries; see how well he's
doing?" But this totally ignores the *huge* amount of time, money, and
talent that has gone into his car!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
JS wrote:
I have a Zivan NG3 switching charger in my EV. It has a power factor
of 0.68. It has an internal fuse of 20 Amps. I have an AVCON adapter
box. I can charge on some public chargers, but some of the ICS-200
units shut down after 1 minute.
I am planning a simple low-pass L filter to see if this eliminates the
problem.
It will certainly help. Pick the L and C values for the best power
factor at full load (where the ICS-200 would trip off). At lower power
levels, you need different values for L and C for best power factor, but
that won't matter as the ICS-200 won't trip there (it just measures peak
current).
I have two 0.005 Henry inductors, 22.5 Ampere rated, and 0.03 Ohm.
I have a large number of 10 and 50 microFarad capacitors, oil filled,
rated at 600 Volts.
With the two inductors (in series) placed in series with 300
microFarads I calculate a resonate frequency of 91 Hz.
I calculated the inductive reactance at 60 Hz at 3.77 Ohms,
> and the capacitive reactance as 4.4 Ohms.
You don't want resonance; this would lead to very large peak voltages
and currents. "Best" power factor is a complicated matter. Your best bet
is to get a simple power factor meter (such as a Kill-A-Watt; about
$30), or a true-RMS ammeter (about $60), and experiment to find the
values that give the best power factor or the lowest AC line RMS current
for a given DC output current.
Adding just one of your 5 mH inductors alone in series with the
charger's AC input is probably all you'll need. Even that may be too much.
If you add capacitance, it goes directly across the charger's AC input,
after the inductor.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
should the fusing to protect the DC side of the battery charger and
DC/DC converter (156 VDC) be a time delay fuse or fast acting fuse?
These fuses are to prevent a fire in case parts in the charger or DC/DC
fail. Without a fuse, a failure could short the batteries through the
charger or DC/DC wiring. This could lead to *enormous* currents and a
serious risk of fire. So, this fuse can be slow-blow without a problem.
The ceramic time delay has the limitation of 125 VDC The fast acting
is rated at 600 VDC
The time delay depends on the type of fuse; not on whether it is ceramic
or not. In general, faster fuses can handle more voltage, because they
have to carry the fault current for a shorter length of time.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matthew Chan wrote:
it seems that I would have to buy a junk mercedes for the
transmission
You don't actually need a transmission for an EV. If this Mercedes is
one with the engine+transmission in front, and differential in the rear,
you can replace *both* the engine and transmission with an electric motor.
All purpose-built EVs have no transmission. Electric motors don't need
them. We only have transmissions in EV conversions, because a) it was
already there (i.e. it was "free") and b) if there is a transmission,
you can use a little smaller electric motor and controller.
So, I'd look into leaving the transmission out, and using a size or two
larger motor and controller to compensate.
In light of the fact that regen with the series wound DC (probably my
only option if the solectria is not doable) is not available, I was
wondering if there would be any other option.
Regen is certainly available on DC systems; even DC systems with series
motors. It's just that regen with a series motor is harder (i.e. more
expensive). The cheapest EV drive system option is a DC series motor and
controller without regen. Most people want "cheap" above all else. So,
almost all the DC series motor options being marketed have no regen.
I've heard about compressed nitrogen regen systems and other systems
along those lines. How doable are those? I'd imagine they have much
higher efficiency than electrical regen systems.
No; they actually have lower efficiencies.
The cheapest/simplest regen system is the alternator that the Mercedes
already came with. Belt drive it from the electric motor, just like it
was for the ICE. Add a relay that enables the alternator only when you
step on the brake pedal to turn the brake lights on. Now the alternator
does nothing in normal driving, and the 12v system is running off the
12v accessory battery. When you step on the brakes, the alternator comes
on, sees the partially discharged battery, and charges like mad. You get
mild regen "engine braking" effect.
I'm willing to have a slightly chillier car, since I'm pretty much
acclimatized to the -30C winters anyways. A heater is a must, but it
probably wouldn't see very heavy use.
Electric heaters aren't that big a power-waster. I live in Minnesota
now, and have lived in Michigan and New York -- all places with real
winters like Toronto. Electric heat uses perhaps 10% of your battery
power, so it reduces range by about 10% in winter.
The *real* range penalty in winter comes from letting your batteries get
cold. You have to put them in insulated boxes, with a little heating pad
to keep them at 25 deg.C or so even in winter. This isn't hard to do if
you plan for it. 1 inch of styrafoam insulation and a 100 watt heating
pad are all it takes.
I've read mostly about AC systems, but should I be looking for high
voltage and low Ah or vice versa?
The only AC systems available are high voltage; so you pretty much have
to use about 300v worth of batteries to use one.
DC systems are available in any voltage. Anything from 72v to 300v is
possible.
In general, lower voltage systems are cheaper and easier; higher voltage
systems provide faster acceleration and higher top speeds.
lets say for the moment that the vehicle will be 4500lbs converted.
I'm not sure what I should use for the motor.
A vehicle of this weight will need about 10-20 HP for around-town
driving, and 20-40 HP for high-speed freeway driving. Use the higher
number for a transmissionless EV, or the lower one if you have a
transmission. Any power in excess of this provides your power for
acceleration and hill-climbing.
1 HP is about 1 KW, when you take efficiency into account.
The ADC and netgain ones seem suitable
Yes, the larger ones will work. In a 4500 lbs vehicle, use the 9" motor
with a transmission, or the 11" motor without a transmission.
is it possible to find a better deal for a series wound DC from
industrial surplus stores or direct from the manufacturers?
You can always find lower prices used or surplus. One nice thing about
electric motors is that they almost never wear out, and can almost
always be rebuilt. But, your EV may wind up with a motor that wasn't
built for the application. For instance, forklift motors are generally
built for lower voltages and lower speeds; but people use them anyway in
EVs to save money.
Is cramming as many T-105s into the vehicle as possible a good idea?
I should have the weight capacity specs of the car soon.
It depends on your goals. Golf cart batteries give you the lowest cost
per mile, and fairly good range if you use enough of them. But they also
lead you toward a heavy slow-moving vehicle.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Wendell wrote:
okay, my boss here at the bike shop has a very nice 1978
mercedes-benz unimog 406 DoKa... weighs almost 4 tons... so, can it
be done? what's the best solution?
Oh, sure; it can be done. There are plenty of electric buses, trains,
and other heavy vehicles.
Like all vehicles, you start off by looking at its curb weight, and its
GVWR. To be successful as an EV, it will need to be able carry a
significant fraction of its total weight in batteries.
Trucks are often pretty good at this. Let's say this one would weigh 3
tons without the ICE and related parts, and its GVWR is 5 tons. Then it
can carry 2 tons of batteries. That's 2/5 = 40% batteries; not bad at
all. Range could be surprisingly good.
A 6' x 6' flatbed could hold about 70 golf cart batteries. At 60 lbs
each, that's pretty close to 2 tons worth. At present prices, that's
about $5000 worth.
You'd want one heck of a big motor; something out of a city bus, for
example. Or if the drive train lends itself to it, use several motors,
one per axle.
For a controller, again, an electric city bus could be a good source. 70
6v batteries is a 420v pack, and I believe the city buses are 480v systems.
Such a vehicle would have *no* trouble plowing snow! All that weight,
and the brute force power of a big DC drive would make it unstoppable.
Think about the "puny" GE Electrak garden tractors!
So, it's all possible. There might even be some federal funds or tax
breaks for such a big alternative-fuel vehicle. Are you up for a *big*
project?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On the topic of high performancing a Tropica, Bob Schneeviess suggests:
"Two 8"s with 5 to 1 speed reducers in the nose, driving driveshafts
direct to the hubs.
What exactly is meant by "speed reducers" in the nose? Is there a link
where I can see a picture of them?
This just means placing a 5:1 gear reduction between the motor shaft and
the wheels. The "nose" of the motor is the shaft end.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tehben Dean wrote:
Has anyone used Prodex Total Insulation? foil-foam-foil 14.5 R Value
http://www.insulation4less.com/prodex_Ffmf.asp
Be aware that this R value is marketing bullshit.
When you dig into the fine print, you will find that this R 14.5 is the
value of this foil-foam insulation *plus* the normal 4" air space found
inside a typical ceiling. The air provides almost all the insulation;
their cheap foam and bubble pack does almost nothing.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
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Lee Hart wrote:
>This just means placing a 5:1 gear reduction between the motor shaft and
>the wheels. The "nose" of the motor is the shaft end.
Lee, I guess my question was a little vague. I understood what Bob meant.
I was just trying to figure out physically what he might be referring to.
As you know, the Tropica already has a 5.2:1 reduction via a belt drive.
Bob's remark seemed to indicate something more direct, like a planetary
gear, or a 1-gear-only transmission. I was just trying to get some help
determining exactly what this would be that could fit in the space
available, and possible a link to a picture.
Bill Dennis
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Lee Hart wrote:
>This just means placing a 5:1 gear reduction between the motor shaft and
>the wheels. The "nose" of the motor is the shaft end.
I have two Tropica chassis. One is in the original configuration, as I
described in my previous post, with the motor as unsprung weight. The
second chassis, however, has been modified so that the motor has become
sprung weight. A stiffener was added to the floor pan behind each seat,
and the motor is attached there in such a way that the shaft of the motor
lines up exactly with the pivot point of the rear suspension. Therefore,
as the suspension moves up and down, the motor and wheel sprockets always
remain the same distance from each other.
It seemed pretty clever to me; does anyone have pros/cons that they can see
about this configuration?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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Hi,
Instead of using older looking gauges, I will be using more modern
type gauges. see: http://tinyurl.com/2desan
for example for the vac gauge I'll be using.
Is there anything inherently wrong with using a 12v dc voltmeter gague
(designed for the acc battery in ICEs)? I would just use a simple
voltage divider where R is th input resistance to the meter and put a
9R resistor in series with the meter so it sees 1/10 of the pack
voltage. Heating souldn't be an issue in the 9R since the input
resistance to the meter should be pretty high anyway.
No problems, right?
TIA
--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.
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I assume he was talking about using a gear motor and coupling it's shaft
directly to the axle shaft of a FWD type drive setup (think CV joints).
Of course this means that you'll have to build the "gear" part of the gear
motor; which is something I would expect Bob to dive right into and do without
hesitation.
here's a small gear motor for illustration....
http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007071113354092&item=5-1391
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 2:22 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Speed Reducers in the Nose
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
>>This just means placing a 5:1 gear reduction between the motor shaft
> and
>>the wheels. The "nose" of the motor is the shaft end.
>
> Lee, I guess my question was a little vague. I understood what Bob
> meant.
> I was just trying to figure out physically what he might be referring
> to.
> As you know, the Tropica already has a 5.2:1 reduction via a belt drive.
>
> Bob's remark seemed to indicate something more direct, like a planetary
> gear, or a 1-gear-only transmission. I was just trying to get some help
> determining exactly what this would be that could fit in the space
> available, and possible a link to a picture.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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Couldn't you just put a CV shaft on the end of the motor, to allow it
to be sprung weight? That's how all the rear driveline of subaru's,
and the front driveline of most 4x4 trucks without solid axles are
designed -- the differential is mounted to the bottom of the vehical,
and a CV shaft goes out to each wheel, which is the only unsprung
weight. In a single motor setup, drive the input to the differential
with the motor, in a dual motor setup, each motor has it's own CV
shaft going to it's wheel.
On 7/11/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
>This just means placing a 5:1 gear reduction between the motor shaft and
>the wheels. The "nose" of the motor is the shaft end.
I have two Tropica chassis. One is in the original configuration, as I
described in my previous post, with the motor as unsprung weight. The
second chassis, however, has been modified so that the motor has become
sprung weight. A stiffener was added to the floor pan behind each seat,
and the motor is attached there in such a way that the shaft of the motor
lines up exactly with the pivot point of the rear suspension. Therefore,
as the suspension moves up and down, the motor and wheel sprockets always
remain the same distance from each other.
It seemed pretty clever to me; does anyone have pros/cons that they can see
about this configuration?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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Zeke Yewdall
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Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Quotable Quote
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in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
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Wendell Berry
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Richard, your 213 wh/mile is an interesting number, because that's exactly
what Prius calculations show at 55 MPH, see
http://privatenrg.com/#Bill_Moores for detail.
Now, if the Prius is actually burning 602 wh of gas to provide 213 wh to
the wheels, then the Prius' efficiency is 213/602 = 35%, which is right in
line with claims.
But, for a really fairer comparison, you need to determine how many wh of
coal or oil or gas was burned to create the electricity that ended up as
213 wh at your car's wheels.
Bill Dennis
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Richard Acuti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:49:23 -0400
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Another, fairer comparison
Hi Phil,
Thanks for correcting me. I knew I wasn't getting it completely right.
Regarding 11.715 kwh vs. kw, I drove 55 miles at 55 mph so I drove for an
hour didn't I? I get what you're saying though. I worded it badly.
At any rate, let's make a fairer comparison like you said. I saw a
commercial last night that says the Prius
So a Prius at 60 mpg, consumes .01666 gallons per mile. That's 130000000 X
.01666= 2,166,666 Joules consumed per mile. 2,166,666 joules/mile=
2,166,666
watt-seconds/mile X 1 hr/3600 s=601.85 watt-hr per mile.
So:
1974 EV VW Beetle conversion: 213 wh/mile
2007 Toyota Prius: 602 wh/mile
(Not including line losses, charger heat waste, etc) Much more competitive.
Did I get it right?
Rich A.
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Hello again,
I have a newer car that uses a ECM for most of the ICE stuff and I'd
like to get rid of the ECM (going for ~$400 on EBay). I want to use
my stock tach (for looks and especially since its redline is very
close to the stock tach in there now [ice was a diesel tdi]). The
signal from the ECM to the cluster computer is a square wave 0-5 V
(TTL I'm guessing) 1 pulse/rev. Since I've not dealt with tachs in
the past and there isn't much info on the web, i'm not sure what to
do. I
s there anything that off the shelf that can make such a signal OR
what combination of pickup + an analog circuit that could do the same?
Thanks.
--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.
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A couple of counterpoints:
I agree with Lee that purpose built, street speeds electric vehicles go without
the tranny, like up to about 160 km/hr (100 mph). Purpose built cars that want
to go faster (Tesla Roadster, Buckeye Bullet) use a transmission with multiple
gear ratios.
Even if you are not going for a land speed record, here are some counterpoint
reasons to keep a tranny:
* The successful transmissionless street conversions use 2 electric motors.
Using 1 electric motor and the tranny is cheaper.
* You can get faster acceleration (like 0 to 30 mph) with a transmission if you
have lower voltage or a cheaper controller.
* You don't have to use a Mercedes transmission. You might be able to use
something like a Chevy S10 transmission, but you'd have to fabricate new mounts
and maybe a new clutch linkage.
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:31:10 AM
Subject: Re: Ideal EV configuration for my situation?
Matthew Chan wrote:
> it seems that I would have to buy a junk mercedes for the
> transmission
You don't actually need a transmission for an EV. If this Mercedes is
one with the engine+transmission in front, and differential in the rear,
you can replace *both* the engine and transmission with an electric motor.
All purpose-built EVs have no transmission. Electric motors don't need
them. We only have transmissions in EV conversions, because a) it was
already there (i.e. it was "free") and b) if there is a transmission,
you can use a little smaller electric motor and controller.
So, I'd look into leaving the transmission out, and using a size or two
larger motor and controller to compensate.
> In light of the fact that regen with the series wound DC (probably my
> only option if the solectria is not doable) is not available, I was
> wondering if there would be any other option.
Regen is certainly available on DC systems; even DC systems with series
motors. It's just that regen with a series motor is harder (i.e. more
expensive). The cheapest EV drive system option is a DC series motor and
controller without regen. Most people want "cheap" above all else. So,
almost all the DC series motor options being marketed have no regen. ...
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