EV Digest 7030
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Another, fairer comparison
by John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) "Team EV" wows PIR crowds at the Wayland Invitational
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Energy unit conversion and comparison - units
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: IOTA DC/DC POLARITY?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: The flow of current
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Audio interference in EV
by "Roger Daisley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Wayland Invt'l, KillaCycle on the road
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: IOTA DC/DC POLARITY?
by Jerry Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: The flow of current
by "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: The flow of current
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Just In from PIR, Wayland becomes a Criminal
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Electric Cobra is planning to start tour in Mid August (with Luck)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Audio interference in EV
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack (to Bill D. please)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Audio interference in EV
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Another, fairer comparison
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Questions for those in the-know...
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
All good points Tim. It seems to me that the religious fervor for EVs
sometimes masks the reality that we need to minimize electricity use, as
well as retiring fossil-fuels. At least until there is a surfeit of
clean electricity. I have some hope that recent solar-cell advances are
better than the vaporware we've heard for years. At least there's new
investor money going into all kinds of renewables. Most people seem to
think that there will be an eclectic mix of dirty and cleaner fuels for
a long time to come.
JF
Timothy Balcer wrote:
Let me just respond to a few things.. I'll stay away from <n-word> and
c<c-words>:)
First, distributed power systems and incentives for renewables and
solar would go a heck of a long way towards reducing demands on the
grid anywhere, including CA. ...
Secondly, there are a lot of reports that talk about peak and non peak
capacity, some weighing in one direction, some in the other. What I
think it comes down to simply is that there is spare capacity in much
of the country (if not all of it), and that can be used at night to
charge up EVs. As far as pollution goes, you would have less pollution
since it can be controlled more easily at plants than out of a million
tailpipes. ...
I don't think any of us disagree that EVs are a good idea.. why would
we be here then? ...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
First off, I just got in and I'm pretty much just
walking flesh about now but I wanted to get something
in before the fairy dust fades and I wake up to find
it's all been a dream and in fact I have 4 fried EV
motors to repair in the back of my truck, LMAO!
Anyway here's how this weekend played out from my
point of view...
Thursday night I pulled a 14 hour day ranging from
finishing Mike Willmons pair of Warp-Torque'd 9's
(whose freshly painted housing arrived that day) to
finishing up lift stuff that I promised to get out by
Friday. I got to bed about midnight and woke at 4:30
to finish up general things to be done before I could
depart.
Last on my list was to stop and grab some gas and some
coffee 8^). I was writting out the check and asked
the gal what the date was and she says Friday the
13th! Now I'm not a really superstitious man but I
couldn't help thinking to myself "Ohh Great". Telling
myself it was gonna be just fine, I was packed to the
gills and probably over my trucks capacity with motors
and was on the road by 10:30.
I figured I had plenty of time to make a motor run and
then get to Johns with time to spare 8^) Ohhhh how
wrong I was! Once in the Portland area I became
locked in a 300 square mile Wallmart parking lot! I
had flashbacks from driving in LA traffic during the
Olympics! At around 4:00 I arrived at Waylands after
a 5 hour 50 mile horror of grid lock! In fact I
didn't even do my full run and found myself pretty
frustrated as I exited the freeway at Johns street.
I found some stress easing as I got closer to Johns as
I counted down the streets, 101, 106, 113... (John
lives on 114th) Slam on breaks, what looks like a
driveway is 114th, LMAO! Take hard right to...OMG,
it's another Wallmart parking lots! LMAO!
Luckily I saw where someone had left so I shot past it
turned around and slid into a spot right across the
street from Johns, turn engine off, thank God I'm
there and off the streets, AHhhhh. Wait... What the
Hell is that? Still dazed from the driving AKA
Parking, I'm trying to focus my eyes on what appeared
to be a dark wall moving toward me...at a high rate of
speed! After blinking a couple times (had to make
sure I wasn't seeing things) I see Wayland running
toward my truck (didn't know that man could still do
that, hehe) with a wall of camera and boom men running
after him, LMAO.
Honestly I had no idea what was going on, nor did I
think they were running out to greet the motor guy,
then again I didn't know how fevered Wayland was over
all the media attention, so I tried to prepare myself
for what was about to happen when the wall hit my
truck!
I brace, the wall hits, my truck window fills with
cameras and what look like dead hairy raccoon bodys...
Okay I wasn't expecting that, I just want to get out
of my truck, LMAO! What came out of Johns mouth might
just have well been martian as I didn't understand a
word he said. I sat there blinking at him like Cindy
Lue Who, as the Ginch was stealing her presents.
Johns lips move again, but my brain just could not
form the sentance. Again I blink, trying to compute
what John is saying!
Now I want to see that footage as I'm pretty sure my
eyes roll back as my brain finally hears John
screaming for a 3rd time as to whether I can go pick
up Bills spare battery pack, back from the hell I just
came from 8^( John asks, you got room in your truck?
Ohh thank God, I'm still loaded to the gills so I'm
off the hook, whew! No I'm loaded I state 8^)
John sees a cubic foot of unused area and screams out
you got plenty of space (negating to factor I'm
carring 1400 lbs of cargo i a 1/2 ton truck! 8^o My
worlds spinning, OMG no, please don't send me back
into the parkinglot!
My fate was sealed, squirming was futile, luckily they
found me a partner to guide me to where the Bill and
crew were. Just kinda nice to have someone that knows
the area better than me as I'm very target based in
Portland and don't live there.
G'day mate I hear as Mark Fowler get's in and shuts
the door. I say do ya know where we're going Mark?
No mate never been here before I'm from Australia, but
I got us a GPS, as he stares at me like Cindy Lue Who,
I'm just here for the ride LMAO! Throwing my shades
over my eyes I head back to the parkinglot Aussie in
tow.
Actually John had gone over directions with us (all
caught on film) so I had a general area of where we
were headed. I'm betting that I have this "I can't
believe this is happening" look on my face the entire
time!
Reaching the freeway, depite it being 4:00 traffic it
was at least moving much better. Mark and I did have
a great time chatting during the 20 minute drive and I
was glad to have his company.
Fianally we arrive at camp Killacycle, Yeah! We get
out and get the greets on 8^) With no time for
chit-chat we get to stealing the A123 pack. While
Mark distracted Bill and crew with his cool Aussie
accent I took the bolts out that were holding down 880
glisening A123 cells 8^) I guess bill didn't want
that pack to go anywhere cause it took me twenty
minutes to unbolt it, LMAO!
Seriously though, much love to A123 batteries, Bill
Dube, and his wonderful crew for creating what was
going to turn out to be an awesome show 8^) You guys
rock!
After a quick, probably disrespectful, thanks guys,
Cya type farewell, Mark and I took off for Waylands.
I was kinda irked so I called John... I told Mark, I'm
gonna tell him I'm lost 8^o Damn no answer... call
again, still no pickup... Third time gets me one of
Johns bridesmaids, Hello. Hey this is Jim, where's
Wayland? He's busy. Tell him I'm lost, lmao, hehe.
I no sooner said it when I hear John in the background
"IS HE LOST!"
I could actually hear the black wall stampeding toward
the phone...3,2,1, Waylands screaming at me, Are you
some kind of retarded moron! A freaking 3 legged
sloth could have done this better! If I didn't need
those batteries I'd tell you just to go home!
I say hey John, just calling to say we got batts on
the truck and heading your way and didn't want you
hanging, jerk, 8^o (note to myself, John gets pissy
with 18 camera in his face) LMAO.
We arrive back at Johns at 5 sharp where John, Tim,
and Marko "start" to put the A123 batteries into the
White Zombie when in fact we should be leaving for the
track. If nothing else this gave me some time to get
out of my truck before I had to jump back in to head
to PIR.
I'm gonna end this part here before it becomes a
novel. I'm juiced up on some Kaladi Bros coffee that
Mike sent down to me from Alaska 8^) and the family is
out, so I'm hoping I got enough left in me to keep
writing part two right now 8^) I might crash and burn
though also, LMAO! I hope you all enjoyed, stay tuned
it's just getting good 8^o
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim, thanks for posting this link.
This article reports that Tesla roadster consumes 110Wh/km
(176 Wh/mile). This is very good, I wish they'd say at what
speed though.
Driving to PIR (Wayland Int'l events) for 2 days I've done
measurement on my ACRX and if correct, can report that it beats
Tesla roadster in this respect: 106.25 Wh/km (170 Wh/mile) at 55 mph!
That is with 40 PSI tires but wrong type (soft wall) ones.
Skinny and hard tires, while reducing ride comfort will likely
result in even better efficiency.
I would have to make accurate measurements in both directions
to confirm my figures though, didn't have a chance to do it yet.
I think, ACRX efficiency could end up better simply because open top
roadster has horrible Cd - about 0.7 believe it or not;
this is similar to a motorcycle in that respect. So at any high
enough speed it would not be too hard to surpass roadster's
efficiency. In contrast, slippery ACRX's Cd is 0.29.
What I've done is made certain the rear drum brakes don't
drag (they use to due to the parking brake cable bent too much) and
re-packed front wheels bearings making sure they are not over tight,
and I think mainly because I recently installed full body belly pan
as one sheet under entire car length. Here are couple of photos
of this:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/bellypan1.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/bellypan2.jpg
My toe in is set to zero, which certainly helps too. No issues
with handling :-)
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Jim Bundscho wrote:
There is an excellent article about energy conversion
using joules as the basic unit for measure. It is
well footnoted with resources and support documents.
http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/twentyfirstcenturycar.pdf
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Brandt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: IOTA DC/DC POLARITY?
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 4:36:30 PM
> Subject: IOTA DC/DC POLARITY?
>
>
> When using the AC input on the IOTA 240V what is the polarity for the
> DC in to the AC Input? Does the DC connect directly to the AC plug
> wires and to what colors? (WHT/BLK/GRN). Is there something that
> needs to be bypassed?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark
Hello Mark,
It does not matter which white or black is connected to the main battery
positive or negative. In connecting to a DC source, do not connect the
green or your enclosure will have a the main battery potential on it.
Even though the white is neutral and the black is hot in commercial wiring,
in electronics wiring, the white is hot or positive and black is negative or
ground. So take your choice.
Make sure you install one of the input leads to the load side of a amp meter
shunt, so if you are using a E meter, it will record the correct current
usage.
Also it is recommended to install a slow blow fuse or fusetron on the input
side. The fuses that are in the IOTA are for the output side.
Lets say you have a 45 amp IOTA at 14.5 volts which is normally fuse for 30
amps on the output side, the input side should be fuse for:
30 amps/(pack voltage/14.5) = input minimum fuse size.
For a 144 volt pack that would be 3 amps. Lets say you use a NO 12 AWG for
the input voltage, you could fuse that wire up to 20 amps. You are
protecting the wire on the input side. The output fuses will protected the
converter.
I am running 4 IOTA 45 amps that are design for a 180 VDC input. If I had
240 V pack, I would have to series two IOTA's input lead for a 240 input.
You can series or parallel the output or input leads if you have more than
one IOTA for either more amperes or higher voltage.
Because I am using a deep cycle 12 volt accessory battery, I use two
contactors control by the ignition circuit to completely shut the IOTA's
down with the ignition is off.
My entire EV main battery, accessory battery, DC-DC converters, and battery
chargers are all disconnected from each other when the ignition switch is
off using a multiple of contactors.
Roland
____________________________________________________________________________________>
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search> that gives answers, not web links.>
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We lose power quite often (from my perspective, anyway), where I live.
Here's what I do to run the house off of the traction pack. It's not
very efficient, but it gets me through the day or two that the power's
out. I bought a 1000W non-pure-sine-wave inverter off of Ebay for
around $85. I hook the inverter up to the car's 12V battery, which is
hooked to the traction pack through the car's DC/DC converter. The 12V
then gets converted to 120V AC. It's enough to run the frig, keep the 6
pumps circulating water in the radiant floor system, plus let's us
watch, use the laptop, and turn on a few lights.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Metchell,
You have to use a very big switch. You could test it out on 12 volts on one
of those 500 amp red flag handle 12 battery cut off switch you can get from
a auto parts store.
I use this type of switches to break in the motor brushes, which is running
the motor only, not in gear to drive the EV.
Any higher voltage, you have to have a higher voltage rated switch, or
circuit breaker that can break the arc, or if not, the motor will continue
to rotate even if you turn off a lower voltage switch on high voltage.
Roland
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: The flow of current
> Ok then .. Well what I am after is a trial run on the car before I put
> another 600 or 700 bucks into a controller.. I want to make sure it is
> going
> to run ok.. So I want to know how much voltage to put on this motor rated
> for 30 volts and 300 amps .. And take it for a little drive to make sure
> it
> is all going to work .. Without frying the motor or anything.. With just a
> on off switch for the trial run..
>
> Thanks Mitchell
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Roland Wiench
> Date: 7/15/2007 2:21:52 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: The flow of current
>
> Hello Phelps,
>
> Motors are inductive loads, where the ampere will rise with increase
> voltage
>
> Unlike resistance loads as a heater, where if you have a 240 v heater
> Element at 8 amps, it will become 4 amps at 120 v.
>
> A motor that it windings are rated for 240 v may use 10 amps where A motor
> Has its windings rated for 120 V may use 20 amps for the same hp. But
> using
> Different voltages on the same windings rated for some other voltage the
> Ampere may increase as follows:
>
> Here is the results of a 180 VDC motor test I did using different voltages
> At no load:
>
> Battery Pack Actual Volts Amperes Rpm
>
> 12 12.6 5 634
> 18 18.9 6 1013
> 24 25.4 6.2 1390
> 30 31.8 6.4 1773
> 36 37.8 6.6 2143
> 42 44.5 6.8 2521
> 48 51.2 7.0 2985
> 54 57.5 7.5 3270
> 60 63.7 8 3715
>
> There is a maximum voltage and ampere rating you can go over on a motor.
> This is call the Service Factor (SF). If 115V motor has a rated SF of 115%
> And the motor has a ampere rating of 200 ampere for continuous running,
> then
>
> 200A x 1.15 = 230 amps. The 115V motor can run on 115V x 1.15 = 132.25 V.
>
> On the label for the motor, there should be a Service Factor which may say
> SF 1.25 for a DC motor. I don't why the ADC and Warp motors do not have
> Motor label that list the specifications of the motor.
>
> My General Electric motor does. It list the DC motor as 165 volts at 175
> Amps at 32 HP with a SF of 1.25 meaning the over voltage can be about 208
> Volts and the over ampere can be 218 amperes continuous.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:03 AM
> Subject: The flow of current
>
>
> >
> > If my motor is rated for 300 amps at 30 volts..
> >
> > If I increase the voltage ..To 36 volts will the amount of amps that it
> > uses
> > decrease as the voltage increases..
> >
> > Or will the amps remain constant?
> >
> > Thanks Mitchell
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will soon be adding a Kenwood CD player (with AM/FM/XM Satellite radio) to
my (soon to be completed) '86 VW Cabriolet EV. I am using a Curtis 1221
motor controller. I'm wondering about noise in the system and wonder what
precautions I make take, if any are needed, possibly including shielded
speaker wires. Anyone have any experience with this?
Roger Daisley
Pullman, WA
"Saving The Environment - One Mile At A Time."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know when we can expect to see this on Discovery or Speed
channel? I can't wait to see!
--
Brandon Kruger
http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
http://cafepress.com/altfuel
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Question???
I have one 45 amp IOTA DC/DC converter. When I connect it to my 144 volt pack
I get a brief spark, I assume from capacitors charging. Is it no problem to
connect and disconnect every time I shut down the car? I have been leaving it
run all the time, as it draws little to no current. ( I do not have any 12 volt
battery in the car)
I just assumed it was better to let it run than get that spark each time I
connect it. Jerry Wagner
-----Original Message-----
>From: Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 15, 2007 7:53 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: IOTA DC/DC POLARITY?
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David Brandt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 3:45 PM
>Subject: Re: IOTA DC/DC POLARITY?
>
>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 4:36:30 PM
>> Subject: IOTA DC/DC POLARITY?
>>
>>
>> When using the AC input on the IOTA 240V what is the polarity for the
>> DC in to the AC Input? Does the DC connect directly to the AC plug
>> wires and to what colors? (WHT/BLK/GRN). Is there something that
>> needs to be bypassed?
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mark
>
>Hello Mark,
>
>It does not matter which white or black is connected to the main battery
>positive or negative. In connecting to a DC source, do not connect the
>green or your enclosure will have a the main battery potential on it.
>
>Even though the white is neutral and the black is hot in commercial wiring,
>in electronics wiring, the white is hot or positive and black is negative or
>ground. So take your choice.
>
>Make sure you install one of the input leads to the load side of a amp meter
>shunt, so if you are using a E meter, it will record the correct current
>usage.
>
>Also it is recommended to install a slow blow fuse or fusetron on the input
>side. The fuses that are in the IOTA are for the output side.
>
>Lets say you have a 45 amp IOTA at 14.5 volts which is normally fuse for 30
>amps on the output side, the input side should be fuse for:
>
>30 amps/(pack voltage/14.5) = input minimum fuse size.
>
>For a 144 volt pack that would be 3 amps. Lets say you use a NO 12 AWG for
>the input voltage, you could fuse that wire up to 20 amps. You are
>protecting the wire on the input side. The output fuses will protected the
>converter.
>
>I am running 4 IOTA 45 amps that are design for a 180 VDC input. If I had
>240 V pack, I would have to series two IOTA's input lead for a 240 input.
>
>You can series or parallel the output or input leads if you have more than
>one IOTA for either more amperes or higher voltage.
>
>Because I am using a deep cycle 12 volt accessory battery, I use two
>contactors control by the ignition circuit to completely shut the IOTA's
>down with the ignition is off.
>
>My entire EV main battery, accessory battery, DC-DC converters, and battery
>chargers are all disconnected from each other when the ignition switch is
>off using a multiple of contactors.
>
>Roland
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________>
> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search> that gives answers, not web
> links.> http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jumper cables?
On 7/15/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Metchell,
You have to use a very big switch. You could test it out on 12 volts on one
of those 500 amp red flag handle 12 battery cut off switch you can get from
a auto parts store.
I use this type of switches to break in the motor brushes, which is running
the motor only, not in gear to drive the EV.
Any higher voltage, you have to have a higher voltage rated switch, or
circuit breaker that can break the arc, or if not, the motor will continue
to rotate even if you turn off a lower voltage switch on high voltage.
Roland
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: The flow of current
> Ok then .. Well what I am after is a trial run on the car before I put
> another 600 or 700 bucks into a controller.. I want to make sure it is
> going
> to run ok.. So I want to know how much voltage to put on this motor rated
> for 30 volts and 300 amps .. And take it for a little drive to make sure
> it
> is all going to work .. Without frying the motor or anything.. With just a
> on off switch for the trial run..
>
> Thanks Mitchell
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Roland Wiench
> Date: 7/15/2007 2:21:52 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: The flow of current
>
> Hello Phelps,
>
> Motors are inductive loads, where the ampere will rise with increase
> voltage
>
> Unlike resistance loads as a heater, where if you have a 240 v heater
> Element at 8 amps, it will become 4 amps at 120 v.
>
> A motor that it windings are rated for 240 v may use 10 amps where A motor
> Has its windings rated for 120 V may use 20 amps for the same hp. But
> using
> Different voltages on the same windings rated for some other voltage the
> Ampere may increase as follows:
>
> Here is the results of a 180 VDC motor test I did using different voltages
> At no load:
>
> Battery Pack Actual Volts Amperes Rpm
>
> 12 12.6 5 634
> 18 18.9 6 1013
> 24 25.4 6.2 1390
> 30 31.8 6.4 1773
> 36 37.8 6.6 2143
> 42 44.5 6.8 2521
> 48 51.2 7.0 2985
> 54 57.5 7.5 3270
> 60 63.7 8 3715
>
> There is a maximum voltage and ampere rating you can go over on a motor.
> This is call the Service Factor (SF). If 115V motor has a rated SF of 115%
> And the motor has a ampere rating of 200 ampere for continuous running,
> then
>
> 200A x 1.15 = 230 amps. The 115V motor can run on 115V x 1.15 = 132.25 V.
>
> On the label for the motor, there should be a Service Factor which may say
> SF 1.25 for a DC motor. I don't why the ADC and Warp motors do not have
> Motor label that list the specifications of the motor.
>
> My General Electric motor does. It list the DC motor as 165 volts at 175
> Amps at 32 HP with a SF of 1.25 meaning the over voltage can be about 208
> Volts and the over ampere can be 218 amperes continuous.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:03 AM
> Subject: The flow of current
>
>
> >
> > If my motor is rated for 300 amps at 30 volts..
> >
> > If I increase the voltage ..To 36 volts will the amount of amps that it
> > uses
> > decrease as the voltage increases..
> >
> > Or will the amps remain constant?
> >
> > Thanks Mitchell
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dunno about that.... Today I spun my sepex motor up with jumper cables
for fun (and to make sure it worked). 12 volts (from a running ICE
car). It turns nice, but it made a decent little spark at 12 volts,
no load. At load and some actual voltage, I'd be hesitant to use
jumper cables....
You'll need a main contactor anyway, regardless of controller. So why
not wire the main contactor in to a 48 volt battery bank or so, and
fire it up? If you are still using the clutch, you can start and stop
the motor with no load for the test, so you won't be breaking full
current. Not sure how similar your motor is to mine, but its base
speed (with full field voltage) is only 1000rpm, so that'd be okay for
engaging the clutch at.
Z
On 7/15/07, storm connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jumper cables?
On 7/15/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Metchell,
>
> You have to use a very big switch. You could test it out on 12 volts on one
> of those 500 amp red flag handle 12 battery cut off switch you can get from
> a auto parts store.
>
> I use this type of switches to break in the motor brushes, which is running
> the motor only, not in gear to drive the EV.
>
> Any higher voltage, you have to have a higher voltage rated switch, or
> circuit breaker that can break the arc, or if not, the motor will continue
> to rotate even if you turn off a lower voltage switch on high voltage.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 5:14 PM
> Subject: Re: The flow of current
>
>
> > Ok then .. Well what I am after is a trial run on the car before I put
> > another 600 or 700 bucks into a controller.. I want to make sure it is
> > going
> > to run ok.. So I want to know how much voltage to put on this motor rated
> > for 30 volts and 300 amps .. And take it for a little drive to make sure
> > it
> > is all going to work .. Without frying the motor or anything.. With just a
> > on off switch for the trial run..
> >
> > Thanks Mitchell
> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> >
> > From: Roland Wiench
> > Date: 7/15/2007 2:21:52 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: The flow of current
> >
> > Hello Phelps,
> >
> > Motors are inductive loads, where the ampere will rise with increase
> > voltage
> >
> > Unlike resistance loads as a heater, where if you have a 240 v heater
> > Element at 8 amps, it will become 4 amps at 120 v.
> >
> > A motor that it windings are rated for 240 v may use 10 amps where A motor
> > Has its windings rated for 120 V may use 20 amps for the same hp. But
> > using
> > Different voltages on the same windings rated for some other voltage the
> > Ampere may increase as follows:
> >
> > Here is the results of a 180 VDC motor test I did using different voltages
> > At no load:
> >
> > Battery Pack Actual Volts Amperes Rpm
> >
> > 12 12.6 5 634
> > 18 18.9 6 1013
> > 24 25.4 6.2 1390
> > 30 31.8 6.4 1773
> > 36 37.8 6.6 2143
> > 42 44.5 6.8 2521
> > 48 51.2 7.0 2985
> > 54 57.5 7.5 3270
> > 60 63.7 8 3715
> >
> > There is a maximum voltage and ampere rating you can go over on a motor.
> > This is call the Service Factor (SF). If 115V motor has a rated SF of 115%
> > And the motor has a ampere rating of 200 ampere for continuous running,
> > then
> >
> > 200A x 1.15 = 230 amps. The 115V motor can run on 115V x 1.15 = 132.25 V.
> >
> > On the label for the motor, there should be a Service Factor which may say
> > SF 1.25 for a DC motor. I don't why the ADC and Warp motors do not have
> > Motor label that list the specifications of the motor.
> >
> > My General Electric motor does. It list the DC motor as 165 volts at 175
> > Amps at 32 HP with a SF of 1.25 meaning the over voltage can be about 208
> > Volts and the over ampere can be 218 amperes continuous.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:03 AM
> > Subject: The flow of current
> >
> >
> > >
> > > If my motor is rated for 300 amps at 30 volts..
> > >
> > > If I increase the voltage ..To 36 volts will the amount of amps that it
> > > uses
> > > decrease as the voltage increases..
> > >
> > > Or will the amps remain constant?
> > >
> > > Thanks Mitchell
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders
Quotable Quote
"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod, et al.
Just go the family home from Portland. What a kick. That crowds great!!
EV'ers and non-
FYI KillaCycle I think made 3 runs. (There may have been one that I missed
cause you can't hear him leave the pits :-) I saw an
8.3 and a couple 8.22's
On another note, even if John wouldn't have pulled all the stops for the 11.466
I think the 11.671 was exactly within 1% of the
previous days 11.555 to back it for the record. If fact it was within a half-a
thousandth. 11.671 / 1.01 = 11.55545 which I
would presume to round to 11.555 :-) But still the 11.466 was amazing and I'm
sure could be improved with some practice and minor
tuning on the car.
But it is kinda funny after getting booted for busting 11.5 John got the work
rig tech'd and ran a 29 something seconds at 53 mph.
Not too bad for a fully laden work truck. Although I fell asleep before he got
the end of the track ;-P
...more after some rest
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Roderick Wilde
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 7:25 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Just In from PIR, Wayland becomes a Criminal
>
>
> Paul, thanks for the clarification for most on the list who are not racers.
> The roll bar ruling will be a dilemma for John as he has to add weight to
> the car but will not have the A123 batteries. Maybe if he convinces the
> track officials that he won't be going this quick next time they might let
> him back on the track. But knowing John he WILL be breaking the 11.5 second
> barrier with the Enersys lead acid batteries. Last night I also failed to
> mention one other very important detail. The Zombie did the eighth mile in
> 7.234 seconds at an incredible 94.52 mph on the run that netted the
> incredible 11.466 ET. Congratulations to John, Tim, and the team from Plasma
> Boy Racing. Paul, can you tell us if the Killacycle made any runs Saturday
> night?
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 3:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Just In from PIR, Wayland becomes a Criminal
>
>
> > On Jul 15, 2007, at 12:24 AM, Roderick Wilde wrote:
> >
> >> The Plasma Boy team experienced some form of controller malfunction
> >> just prior to their first run so they had to diagnose the trouble and
> >> get it resolved before they could run. John will fill you in on the
> >> details when he posts the entire story. Once resolved his next run
> >> netted a time of 11.466 at 114.08 mph. The speed was almost as fast as
> >> Justin Southam did in 1999 in the "Maniac Mazda" when he did 114.85 mph.
> >> this is indeed an historical night for ECS.
> >
> > I just got home from the races. I'm sure for some the post title doesn't
> > seem to make sense. Any car running faster than 11.500 is required to
> > have a roll bar. The night was coming to a close so John let out all the
> > stops and turned the Zilla up. The result was expected. A track official
> > meets John, Tim, and White Zombie back in the pits and gives them their
> > notice. John resorts to racing the work truck :-)
> >
> > Paul "neon" Gooch
> >
> > P.S. - we could have gone out and had diner and come back to the track in
> > the time it takes that thing to get down the quarter mile <G>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database:
> > 269.10.5/899 - Release Date: 7/13/2007 3:41 PM
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael,
I got asked at the Wyaland Invite if I had heard anything about your car. I
just recently visited your website but missed any
track times you might have posted. Can you give us an idea of what you're
pulling for track times?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Michael T Kadie
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 7:40 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Electric Cobra is planning to start tour in Mid August (with
> Luck)
>
>
> Well the national electric drag racing finals (August 17-18) are coming up
> and I'm going to try and start my cross country tour and starting with a
> drive from San Diego to Portland. It is going to be cutting it close, but
> with luck I'm going to make it. http://ssi-racing.com/tour.asp
>
> So now I'm trying to find / reconnect with people to co-ordinate with, hence
> this letter :)
>
> I'm going to keep this generic so that it can be passed on, so that I don't
> miss something, and because I'm lazy.
>
> So I'm now looking for people along the way (read you and yours) to help me
> set up meetings / presentations for the car, press (I feel I've earned my 15
> minutes), affordable lodgings, cruises with other electric cars and cobras
> (nice contrast I think) , and of course sponsorship (I have enough money to
> pull off the tour, but I'd like to pull it off and give away free tee-shirts
> along the way).
>
> Thank you for your support, or insert random rude comment here if you prefer
>
> Michael Kadie
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 619-807-7025
>
> PS in way of self promotion I've put the car up on Discovery Why It's Cool
> to try to get it on TV : forum
> http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/9111927088 - select
> electric 65 coupe I encourage people to make comments on my car, as that is
> what I can do to help my cause :)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The interference (as I've heard discussed previously
on the LIST) is due to e-meter interference, and in my
case, an _inductive_ throttle. In my rig, even with
proper E-meter installation, the AM is unusable, and
the FM suffers some loss in certain spots of throttle
travel.
Your CD will should get no interference.
If you don't have an E-meter, you may have no issues
at all.
The Curtis is (IIRC), a device which will operate at
1.5 kHz at low speed, (roughly sub 5 mph) _then_ go
to 15kHz. The point is that at 1.5 kHz, it will have
litte RF interference, I'd gather.
Hope that helps,
--- Roger Daisley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I will soon be adding a Kenwood CD player (with
> AM/FM/XM Satellite radio) to
> my (soon to be completed) '86 VW Cabriolet EV. I am
> using a Curtis 1221
> motor controller. I'm wondering about noise in the
> system and wonder what
> precautions I make take, if any are needed, possibly
> including shielded
> speaker wires. Anyone have any experience with this?
> Roger Daisley
> Pullman, WA
> "Saving The Environment - One Mile At A Time."
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill, could you please include a manufacturer name?
Also, if my fridge pumps 6A at 120V, that's 720W, and
doesn't include the amp surge @ startup. Is this a
non-issue?
Appreciatively,
--- Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We lose power quite often (from my perspective,
> anyway), where I live.
> Here's what I do to run the house off of the
> traction pack. It's not
> very efficient, but it gets me through the day or
> two that the power's
> out. I bought a 1000W non-pure-sine-wave inverter
> off of Ebay for
> around $85. I hook the inverter up to the car's 12V
> battery, which is
> hooked to the traction pack through the car's DC/DC
> converter. The 12V
> then gets converted to 120V AC. It's enough to run
> the frig, keep the 6
> pumps circulating water in the radiant floor system,
> plus let's us
> watch, use the laptop, and turn on a few lights.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware
protection.
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Roger,
I have a main wire way that runs inside the EV down the center to the
firewall back to equipment panel at the rear. All my main battery pack
cables, 12 volt circuits, control circuits, DC-DC converter circuits are all
ran inside a separate plastic conduit. The E-meter cable is a double shield
unit.
I also have shield speaker wires install in a conduit in this duct way, but
the wires are expose right at the speakers. At the in console
AM/FM/Disc/Tape unit which is above the ductway, the input leads are
shielded.
I do not have any AM noise at all when I'am on station. It may because I
ran several separate grounding circuits back to the 12 volts negative for
these type of units. Also I ran a separate counterpoise grounding system,
which is a No 4 AWG insulated stranded copper wire completely around the EV,
grounding each metal component of the car with standoff terminal points. I
than come off these terminal points to ground my standard vehicle 12 volt
system instead of relying on the sheet metal of the vehicle as a only
conductive path.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Daisley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 6:20 PM
Subject: Audio interference in EV
> I will soon be adding a Kenwood CD player (with AM/FM/XM Satellite radio)
> to
> my (soon to be completed) '86 VW Cabriolet EV. I am using a Curtis 1221
> motor controller. I'm wondering about noise in the system and wonder what
> precautions I make take, if any are needed, possibly including shielded
> speaker wires. Anyone have any experience with this?
> Roger Daisley
> Pullman, WA
> "Saving The Environment - One Mile At A Time."
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/15/07, John Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
All good points Tim. It seems to me that the religious fervor for EVs
sometimes masks the reality that we need to minimize electricity use, as
well as retiring fossil-fuels. At least until there is a surfeit of
clean electricity. I have some hope that recent solar-cell advances are
better than the vaporware we've heard for years. At least there's new
investor money going into all kinds of renewables. Most people seem to
think that there will be an eclectic mix of dirty and cleaner fuels for
a long time to come.
Thanks John. Well, There are at least two promising things happening,
one here in the US and one in OZ.
Uni-solar (our friend, the founder of Ovonics) is making triple
junction amorphous silicon panels with fantastic efficiency, and it is
thin film. They are shipping right now.. you can get solar shingles
for your house, or flat sheets for your barn (or whatever you like).
In OZ, there is a fellow who came up with the bright idea of using
extremely expensive Space Grade solar panels, but only a small piece
(like, 1cm^2) with a fresnel lens of something like 10cm^2 to focus
the light. Apparently, this brings the cost down to less than or equal
to the best hard panel solar arrays or te same size but at twice the
efficiency. The thing even has auto tracking.
The Uni-Solar stuff is for sale right now, and the aussie guy is in
startup mode, although aussies can buy his stuff.
Add to that PacWind's vertical turbine offerings and I am definitely
getting psyched :)
--T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, you can do it with smaller batteries that have smaller
cells.. you just use a lot of em. :)
Like these:
http://www.batteryweb.com/ub_slavrla-detail.cfm?Model=UB-12260T
40 of those babies only weighs 800 lbs. Piece of cake!
On 7/15/07, Joseph T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Metricmind.com is a website that sells AC components. But be
warned, AC is very expensive. Also, I'm not sure you can fit enough
batteries into your Civic to make 480 volts. Lithium based batteries
may be needed if you want to have 480 volts.
On 7/15/07, storm connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Three phase ac will require deep pockets! :-) No heater seems an odd
> requirement given that they are so easy to do with a ceramic element
> replacing the heater core. I guess we could help more if we knew what
> you want. How far, how fast, how much $. Bob Bath has step by step CD
> on the Honda conversion, but it is for DC not AC.
>
> On 7/15/07, Joshua Cummins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hello, the name is Josh and I am service tech for a prominent electric motor
> > company in the midwest. I have decicded to pool my resources and build my
> > own electric car. Can anyone point me in the direction of three-phase
> > inverters, transformers, batteries, photo-cells, control modules and the
> > like that are being used. Here is the intended setup.
> >
> > 1996 Honda Civic Hatchback
> > 480 volt, three phase motor (0-120hz)
> > No A/C, NO heater
> > will use 2 of 5 gears from honda transmission
> > clutch assy. will be replaced with a static coupling
> > would also like to incorporate optoelectric cells for recharge
> > transducer controlled "throttle"
> >
> > But on a bigger picture, lets collaborate friends, lets start the revolution
> > thats 40 years late!
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
> > http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
>
>
--
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in
peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the
hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may
posterity forget that you were our countrymen.
-----Samuel Adams
--- End Message ---
