EV Digest 7033
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) [semiot] Fun on three wheels in my future EV
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Questions for those in the-know...
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) NiMh poor self discharge rate
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Did I fix the endcap?
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack
by billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Audio interference in EV
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Mark Fowler's take on the Wayland Invitational
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Vintage EV article: CHW Datsun 1200 from Athol, MA (1973)
by David Gonzales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Did I fix the endcap?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Electric Cobra is planning to start tour in Mid August (with Luck)
by "Michael T Kadie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: NiMh poor self discharge rate
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Mark Fowler's take on the Wayland Invitational
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Poor Man's DC Regen possibility
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) LPI paddle charger parts
by "Steve Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Short Range Battery Pack
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: NiMh poor self discharge rate
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack
by Markus Lorch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: NiMh poor self discharge rate
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Bilstein's for the Banana?
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Two E-Vans on E-Bay
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: NiMh poor self discharge rate
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: LPI paddle charger parts
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: The final comparison
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Vintage EV article: CHW Datsun 1200 from Athol, MA (1973)
by "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>> The 300 volt solar inverters are not self commutating -- they require
>> an AC input signal before they will turn on.
TrotFox Greyfoot wrote:
Could one use a cheap 100W inverter like plugs into a 12V cigarette
lighter to provide commutation?
It might work with old ones that were less picky. But the newer ones
have to meet rather extreme standards, written by the utilities (I
suspect, to make it as difficult as possible). They require a virtually
perfect frequency, waveform, and tight voltage limits before they will
"believe" that it's the real AC power line and not some generator or
inverter.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes -- pretty tight standards. An Outback inverter produces clean
enough power to energize the grid-tie inverters, but from what I
understand, even the Xantrex sinewave ones are not. Any modified
sinewave inverter would certainly not be. The Exeltech are clean
enough, but cannot accept anything else putting AC power into their
output, so you can't use them to energize the grid-tie inverters.
On 7/16/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>> The 300 volt solar inverters are not self commutating -- they require
>> an AC input signal before they will turn on.
TrotFox Greyfoot wrote:
> Could one use a cheap 100W inverter like plugs into a 12V cigarette
> lighter to provide commutation?
It might work with old ones that were less picky. But the newer ones
have to meet rather extreme standards, written by the utilities (I
suspect, to make it as difficult as possible). They require a virtually
perfect frequency, waveform, and tight voltage limits before they will
"believe" that it's the real AC power line and not some generator or
inverter.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I passed state inspection on my future EV so I paid tax and insurance
and can legally drive it as a ICE car for now. I showed it off (together
with pictures, EV data and a promise that next year they would have for me
a parking spot with a 220v outlet) in 'Franch car day' event at a auto mall
parking lot...
They had prepared a show of a Citroen running around in 3 wheels, but the
car that was going to do the feat failed. Me to the rescue...
I ended up doing three wheel slaloms... pictures in my blog:
http://ev.nn.cl/?p=44
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://ev.nn.cl |
| Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Josh,
You don't say what your motor is rated at, power wise.
Anyway, DC to AC three phase inverters are hard to
find, and expensive when you do. Trying to run a 480
VAC motor means about 650 volts dc. Might be
unrealistic for battery pack. You might consider
doing a DC EV conversion first and save the AC stuff
for later. Good luck,
Jeff
--- Joshua Cummins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello, the name is Josh and I am service tech for a
> prominent electric motor
> company in the midwest. I have decicded to pool my
> resources and build my
> own electric car. Can anyone point me in the
> direction of three-phase
> inverters, transformers, batteries, photo-cells,
> control modules and the
> like that are being used. Here is the intended
> setup.
>
> 1996 Honda Civic Hatchback
> 480 volt, three phase motor (0-120hz)
> No A/C, NO heater
> will use 2 of 5 gears from honda transmission
> clutch assy. will be replaced with a static coupling
> would also like to incorporate optoelectric cells
> for recharge
> transducer controlled "throttle"
>
> But on a bigger picture, lets collaborate friends,
> lets start the revolution
> thats 40 years late!
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play
> Chicktionary!
>
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the
Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think it depends on how much you want to know about your EV and be able to
instant get data on all systems and circuits.
I like multiple indicators, so I can see the status of many units at the
same time, instead of clicking each status up.
For example: I have a motor amp and volt meter. I think the motor amp
meter is the most important gage there is, so you do not drive at a ampere
too long over the continuous rating.
Next is the motor rpm, so you know when to shift gears.
Then there is the battery amp and volt meter, which tells you how low you
can go with the battery voltage. The amp meter so you stay at or below the
amp rating of the battery or you may melt the battery post.
I use three 12 volt and amp meters on my 12 volt accessory
inverter-alternator which provides all the 14.5 volt system and also is
inverted to 7 kw at 120 VAC 60 HZ. There is a 12 volt and amp meter between
the alternator and battery, another set between the battery and inverter if
the alternator is off line and another set between the alternator and
vehicle loads.
On the inverter side, there is 120 volt and amp meter between the inverter
and load side.
The DC-DC converter which is four IOTA's connected up in series parallel for
29 volts at 84 amps also has a volt and amp meter on the output, that drives
accessory motors.
There is a vacuum gage that reads the vacuum at the vacuum pump that is
before the vacuum canister. There is another vacuum gage at the end of the
vacuum lines for the vacuum values that work the heating and A/C system.
This indicates the status of the check values and vacuum motors.
I have a hot water heater for the defrosters, that is monitor with a water
temperature gage. Another water temperature gage for the water cooling unit
for the Zilla controller.
There is also a temperature gage for monitoring the Zilla heat sink. And
another temperature gage for the ambient air conditions inside the enclosure
that the Zilla is in.
The main motor also has two thermo switch indicators that are inside the
motor and another switch on the fan exhaust air output.
While the EV is plug in, there is volt and amp meter which is indicating the
commercial 60 HZ indications and also a volt and amp meter for the charger
outputs.
And then there is the E-meter which can monitor 15 modes of indications of
the battery pack, from AH, Wthr, battery ampere, battery volts, temperature,
time remaining, etc, and can down load the status that is stored.
Then there is the time clocks, One measures the time that the EV runs
between point A to B, another one to measure the amount of motor on time
and another that measures the motor off time while the EV is moving.
Those are just the gages. There are over 50 switch indicators which
monitors all the circuits in the EV. There are back up switches just in
case a switch or circuit goes out. Can fix the circuits on the fly without
stopping.
Then there is a whole roll of switches that I can with one sweep which I can
turn any one off to kill all the power in the EV.
Like I say, it depends what you want to know about your EV system.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:36 AM
Subject: necessity of other gauges (12V and vacuum)
> I was thinking of installing a 12V gauge to monitor my aux battery
> (and DC/DC converter by proxy) and a vacuum gauge to make sure all is
> well with my brakes.
>
> Before i buy them, I was wondering if others have such gauges or are
> they unnecessary?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Brian in TX
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
> http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
> It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
> really quite busy.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I tried an EV-1 NiMh in my boat as a starting battery and a smaller one
about the size of a tractor battery as an auxiliary batter in my EV. Both
die within a week of being fully charged. The fast self discharge rate is
horrible. I switched back to lead batteries in both cases. I havn't had
that problem with Ni-Cads even thoughg they are a nickel chemistry. Is
that
an inherent problem with MiMH batteries?
Best Regards,
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I need expert opinion. The end cap of the motor I bought from Jim was
cracked by the nice guys in customs. I dissassembled the motor, cleaned
up the crack, separated the pieces, and reassembled with a cold weld
epoxy mix that includes a small jar of aluminum powder you add. End
result looks very good, and I managed to restore alignment (I reassembled
the cap without the brushed and let it dry in place).
Did I fix it? it looks ok to me... pictures:
http://www.nn.cl/Autos/EV/Motor/EndCapFix/
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://ev.nn.cl |
| Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an electric bus that has it's 2 air cond., 5 hp power steering,
hydraulic brakes, defrost heaters, cooling fans and an 120 psi air
compressor all running off of two GE/Fuji AF300e$ 10 hp vfd drives
powered from the 350 volt traction pack.
I am currently investigating using another one of these VFDs in a
different EV. In this inverter application the normal 3 phase inputs are
bussed together and powered with dc and the frequency is set at 60 hz.
It appears that it will run with as low as 180 volt dc input but wants
about 230 up to 400 vdc to initially fire up. It has a 3 phase
output that is adjustable from 120 to over 240 vac.
These VFD drives may be one solution for getting ac power on a EV.
Bill Brinsmead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger,
I have an '87 Cabriolet with a Zilla 1K, no emeter. To avoid EMI issues I
did the following:
1) Twisted the 2/0 cables that connect the front and rear battery groups.
2) Twisted +12V and Gnd wires together when wiring pumps, fans, etc.
3) Placed my controller opposite the antenna side of the car.
4) Tried to run high and low voltage wiring in separate areas (not always
possible).
I have an Alpine 9857 head unit mounted in the factory radio spot. An iPod
adapter plugs into the rear, with the iPod sitting in the small area in
front of the shifter. I made a separate on/off switch for the radio from a
spare rear window defrost switch. The Cabriolet has no "accessory" key
position, and I'm sometimes in the car and want to listen to the radio
without the motor blower and cooling pump running :) My speaker wires are
unshielded, both front and rear. Rear speakers are Kenwood 6x9's mounted
on the removeable wooden rear deck. The results:
1) iPod operation is perfect
2) CD operation is perfect
3) FM radio is OK. I get a little static on some stations with slight foot
pressure on the accelerator.
4) AM radio works until I press on the accelerator. Then there's horrible
static/squeal that originates from the controller. The noise goes away
when I let off the pedal.
My radio reception might improve if I actually grounded the Zilla's case
to the car chassis. Eventually I'll get around to it and post the results.
-Adrian
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You got lucky, many of the VFDs I've looked at use a doubler circuit.
Capacitor doublers will not work on DC.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "billb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: How to run appliances off your EV pack
I have an electric bus that has it's 2 air cond., 5 hp power steering,
hydraulic brakes, defrost heaters, cooling fans and an 120 psi air
compressor all running off of two GE/Fuji AF300e$ 10 hp vfd drives
powered from the 350 volt traction pack.
I am currently investigating using another one of these VFDs in a
different EV. In this inverter application the normal 3 phase inputs are
bussed together and powered with dc and the frequency is set at 60 hz. It
appears that it will run with as low as 180 volt dc input but wants about
230 up to 400 vdc to initially fire up. It has a 3 phase
output that is adjustable from 120 to over 240 vac.
These VFD drives may be one solution for getting ac power on a EV. Bill
Brinsmead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks
I found this linked to from the SEVA list but did not see it posted here.
It is a great tongue-in-cheek description of the weekend EVents with great
photos.
Here-
http://frozenfowlers.blogspot.com/
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Vintage EV article: CHW Datsun 1200 from Athol, MA
(1973)
Some of you might find this interesting: full text and
photos.
http://datsun1200.com/modules/nsections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=87
Car and Driver magazine October 1973
ATHOL'S ANSWER TO THE ENERGY CRISIS
Apparently CHW morphed into US Electricar which sold
the Leopard?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the
tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Eduardo
That should get ya going until I can get the new plate
from ADC. They were closed for 2 weeks which
prevented me from oredering it and now I'm just
waiting. Once in I'll get with you about getting it
down to you. Again It appears they did a decent job
on the weld.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I need expert opinion. The end cap of the motor I
> bought from Jim was
> cracked by the nice guys in customs. I dissassembled
> the motor, cleaned
> up the crack, separated the pieces, and reassembled
> with a cold weld
> epoxy mix that includes a small jar of aluminum
> powder you add. End
> result looks very good, and I managed to restore
> alignment (I reassembled
> the cap without the brushed and let it dry in
> place).
>
> Did I fix it? it looks ok to me... pictures:
> http://www.nn.cl/Autos/EV/Motor/EndCapFix/
>
> --
> Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
> http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
> http://ev.nn.cl |
> | Yo.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for
today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd like to say that I've been being all secret, but the truth is that I'm
getting the balancing circuits for the batteries this month and am going to
be pushing it to make the NEDRA nationals (so I'm calling in favors and
anyone in the greater San Diego area wants to help, contact me).
I hope to run her for the first time first week of August, but I have to get
her on the road in the second week, so my first track experience with her
may be in Portland (I'm just going to assume that I can count on a garage
and tools if I break something there).
Michael Kadie
Too simple to give up :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Willmon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 5:26 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Electric Cobra is planning to start tour in Mid August (with
Luck)
Michael,
I got asked at the Wyaland Invite if I had heard anything about your car. I
just recently visited your website but missed any track times you might have
posted. Can you give us an idea of what you're pulling for track times?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Michael T Kadie
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 7:40 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Electric Cobra is planning to start tour in Mid August (with
> Luck)
>
>
> Well the national electric drag racing finals (August 17-18) are
> coming up and I'm going to try and start my cross country tour and
> starting with a drive from San Diego to Portland. It is going to be
cutting it close, but
> with luck I'm going to make it. http://ssi-racing.com/tour.asp
>
> So now I'm trying to find / reconnect with people to co-ordinate with,
> hence this letter :)
>
> I'm going to keep this generic so that it can be passed on, so that I
> don't miss something, and because I'm lazy.
>
> So I'm now looking for people along the way (read you and yours) to
> help me set up meetings / presentations for the car, press (I feel
> I've earned my 15 minutes), affordable lodgings, cruises with other
> electric cars and cobras (nice contrast I think) , and of course
> sponsorship (I have enough money to pull off the tour, but I'd like to
> pull it off and give away free tee-shirts along the way).
>
> Thank you for your support, or insert random rude comment here if you
> prefer
>
> Michael Kadie
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 619-807-7025
>
> PS in way of self promotion I've put the car up on Discovery Why It's
> Cool to try to get it on TV : forum
> http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/9111927088 - select
> electric 65 coupe I encourage people to make comments on my car, as
> that is what I can do to help my cause :)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
While self-discharge rate on NiMH is certainly higher than that
of lead, one weeks is too short time - either batteries are old,
or contaminated, or at quite high temp. I don't know of
any other reason for such high self-discharge rate.
I'd say normally you'd see 50% capacity gone in one month or so.
Victor
Mark Hanson wrote:
Hi,
I tried an EV-1 NiMh in my boat as a starting battery and a smaller one
about the size of a tractor battery as an auxiliary batter in my EV.
Both
die within a week of being fully charged. The fast self discharge
rate is
horrible. I switched back to lead batteries in both cases. I havn't had
that problem with Ni-Cads even thoughg they are a nickel chemistry.
Is that
an inherent problem with MiMH batteries?
Best Regards,
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wasn't talking about the size of the coconuts.....its the mosquitos ;-)
Nice report and pics too. Thanks for sharing.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:04 am
Subject: Mark Fowler's take on the Wayland Invitational
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> Hi Folks
>
> I found this linked to from the SEVA list but did not see it posted
> here.
> It is a great tongue-in-cheek description of the weekend EVents
> with great
> photos.
>
> Here-
> http://frozenfowlers.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-
> us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Chancey wrote:
> Belt drive regen has been done. The now defunct Solar Car Corp
> offered it as an option years ago. See:
>
> http://www.evalbum.com/tech/regen.jpg
>
> I wish these were still available. Anyone know a rewinding shop that
> could rewind an alternator like this?
Nope; and don't forget that a common automotive alternator needs
modifying to isolate the ground from the case. But, check out the
"Power Mite" alternators from Fabco:
<http://www.fabcopower.com/generat/bgen.htm>
110VAC 3500W and 4500W or 220VAC 3500W
I've also seen brushless alternators that put out 120/240/480VAC
(unregulated) on some micro hydro turbines, but haven't been able to
determine the manufacturer of the alternator itself to see what it would
cost on its own (as a complete turbine unit they are pricey).
Other promising "off-the-shelf" alternator possibilities:
<http://www.amplepower.com/products/alt/index.html>
(Alternators with/available with isolated grounds and built with 200V
diodes (so good candidates for running at higher output voltages without
internal mods). 12, 24, and 32V models, all expecting an external
regulator.)
<http://www.zena.net/htdocs/alternators/alt_inf.shtml>
(High current alternators up to 24V stock output, with isolated grounds,
etc.)
Some permanent magnet possibilities (bearing in mind that with a PM
solution it might be necessary to add the complication of an electric
clutch, etc. to avoid spinning the generator all the time):
<http://polarpowerinc.com/products/generators/index.htm>
(Two fairly large models offered, but max output (stock) seems to be
48-64VDC and no prices listed. Reasonable efficiency.)
<http://www.windstreampower.com/443905_PMDCG.php>
(20A and 30A models available for reasonable prices (<$500). Output
voltage up to 120VDC, 3.6kW @ 120VDC for the 30A model.)
<http://www.electrodyne.com/models.html>
(Brushless alternators, internal regulator but available stock up to 64V
output (@100A). Not sure if the ground is isolated or not.)
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's interesting you mention that.
My first DCDC put out 350W, and my commutes were
rather short. The result was that often the aux. batt
never got a full charge, and died a premature death.
Thus, 12V instrumentation would've helped.
The new DCDC puts out 600W, so the aux. battery
_always_ gets a full charge, and instrumentation for
the 12V line is now irrelevant.
I've contemplated having the engine gauge go on when
the vacuum pump pulls, (once every 4 actuations,
roughly), but have decided to keep it simple.
Hope that helps,
--- Brian Pikkula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was thinking of installing a 12V gauge to monitor
> my aux battery
> (and DC/DC converter by proxy) and a vacuum gauge to
> make sure all is
> well with my brakes.
>
> Before i buy them, I was wondering if others have
> such gauges or are
> they unnecessary?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Brian in TX
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
> http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
> It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a
> cellular level I'm
> really quite busy.
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? For $20 DVD you can purchase footage of my
'92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at: www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul wrote:
I like the math but hasn't the real world pretty much proven that 12
Optima group 34 deep cycle batteries (50 ah rated) can handle 10 miles
quite easily? The pack would have a drop dead range of around 15 miles,
less if driven at high speeds.
Yes; and that's what I said. If you drive fast enough to fully discharge
them in 12 minutes, you only get around 1/3rd of their 20-hour rate, and
will only have a range of 10-15 miles. Slow down, or have enough
batteries so they last 30-60 minutes, and you'll double their capacity,
and so double your range.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson wrote:
I tried an EV-1 NiMh in my boat as a starting battery and a smaller one
about the size of a tractor battery as an auxiliary batter in my EV.
Both
die within a week of being fully charged. The fast self discharge
rate is
horrible. I switched back to lead batteries in both cases. I havn't had
that problem with Ni-Cads even thoughg they are a nickel chemistry.
Is that
an inherent problem with MiMH batteries?
Nimh cells do have a high self-discharge rate; though one week is
unusually fast. Check each cell voltage. I found that 1 or 2 cells were
bad in most of the EV1 modules I have.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I doubt the grid-tie inverters would go for a simulated grid by a small
12V-110V inverter. My solar inverter from SMA measures grid impedance
and stuff and has very small tolerances on frequency and
over/under-voltage as well.
However, I saw in the manual that the software has settings for island
mode and can be set to maintain a fixed voltage etc. For the SMA
inverter (4kw about EUR 2000) I have a gut feeling that the difference
between the island and the grid-tie inverters is only in the software
and I also know that dealers can get a computer interface with software
for monitoring and changing parameters.
the SMA inverters when in island mode also "listen" to the frequency of
the AC power, when the frequency slows down (like when a generator is
loaded higher) they try to provide more power and when the frequency
speeds up they reduce power production. At least thats what I read. This
way they can vary the solar panel output a bit when in island mode.
Now SMA has a new set of battery inverters as of this year, but they are
24 and 48V, they are intended to keep an island grid going and manage
the power flow among solar / wind and other power sources (i.e. when
there is not enough power generated by the other inverters the battery
inverter adds power from the batteries, when there is too much power
generated by solar etc. the battery inverter charges the battery and
when full switches on an additional load to keep the island grid stable.
I looked into it but the system runs around $5000 for a basic setup.
I for my part went another route, I got myself an old used UPS ($150)
that ran as a backup for the controls of a water power plant. It is made
for 96V of batteries which fits nicely with my EV and provides 2.5kw of
backup power. It also has a bypass switch so when not needed it there
won't be conversion inefficiencies. Its not portable (6 foot rack) but
it has a nice 3 phase 40Amp battery charger built in, voltage and amp
meters and will be able to power one phase of my house from batteries. I
yet have to hook it up in my garage and need to move all crucial
appliances and some lights to that phase. I can't wait until we have a
major power outage ...
Markus
TrotFox Greyfoot wrote:
<div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">Could
one use a cheap 100W inverter like plugs into a 12V cigarette
lighter to provide commutation?
Just a thought...
Trot, the gray, fox...
On 7/16/07, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The 300 volt solar inverters are not self commutating -- they require
an AC input signal before they will turn on. Plus, their software
assumes a finite source and infinite load, rather than a finite load
and (effectively) infinite source like a standalone inverter. Maybe
you could hack the software, but it probably wouldn't be easy.
Z
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> Mark Hanson wrote:
> >> I tried an EV-1 NiMh in my boat as a starting battery and
> >> a smaller one about the size of a tractor battery as an
> >> auxiliary batter in my EV.
> >> Both die within a week of being fully charged. The fast
How do you know they are fully charged? The middle cells in a module
can get considerably hotter than those near the ends and while hot, they
will not charge not matter how many Ah you put into them.
> >> self discharge rate is horrible. I switched back to lead
> >> batteries in both cases. I havn't had that problem with
> >> Ni-Cads even thoughg they are a nickel chemistry.
> >> Is that an inherent problem with MiMH batteries?
>
> Nimh cells do have a high self-discharge rate; though one week is
> unusually fast. Check each cell voltage. I found that 1 or 2
> cells were bad in most of the EV1 modules I have.
It must also be said that the older Ovonics cells are relatively poor
amongst NiMH. The Panasonics were considered the best, with the Saft
NiMH a close second.
The present production Cobasys 9500 cells are using a different material
(AB5 vs AB2) and hold the promise of nearing the Panasonic level of
performance.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
Has anyone had any experience with putting Bilstein struts/shocks
in an EV conversion, such as a Rabbit with about a 1000-lb
battery pack, or similar? Last Dec. I was talking with a
mechanic who seemed fairly knowledgeable and who was willing to
work on my conversion (there are some things I just can't do in
an apartment setting, and I always feel it is good to have
another set of eyes checking things out), and he gave me part
prices for KYB, Boge Progas, and Bilstein. I believe that KYBs
were the original shocks as provided in the VoltsRabbit kit in
1994. I had the front ones replaced with Boge Progas in the late
'90s, and they provided much better control in the bounce
department and a somewhat smoother ride. I still have the
original KYBs in the rear. The pass. side one developed a
flutter noise rather early on going over washboardy road
surfaces, and on advice from Mike Brown, in 2005 I finally got
around to swapping the rear struts to see if the noise moved -
good idea! Well, the flutter went away from the right side, only
to be replaced by awful creaking noises from the left (sounds
like something is rubbing inside the strut body), and I'm still
living with this. At any rate, all four corners need to be
replaced, since the front is getting back to "old Cadillac" mode
in the bounce control dept, and the right-rear is leaking fluid
(enough so the oil is stain the floor). Struts don't seem to
last too long in this conversion.
I believe it was the Bilstein back in the '70s that I saw had a
"dual ride" control. Good smooth ride on regular streets,
getting rid of the harshness of the street surface and minor
bumps and potholes. Good damping for more violent surfaces, such
as going at right angles across steeply crowned roads (yep, did
that once with the KYBs and came down hard on the other side).
My ride is better with the larger tires I have now, up to
P185-70R13 - more meat between me and the road. But the
rain-eroded road surfaces around here, especially the one on my
hill to my apartment that's all rough and full of holes, and that
never gets resurfaced to any great degree, is a noisy ride. I'm
sure 44F/34R psi in the tires does make the ride harsher, but
going to 34F/29R makes the tires feel like marshmellows (nice and
soft) and significantly increases the rolling resistance (parking
lot test and regular driving).
Looking at the A-arms in these fwd cars... I imagine most of the
energy from the road goes up through the spring and strut, but
isn't some also going to go through the pivot point where the
A-arm attaches to the body? Is there a bushing here that needs
replacement that would cut down on some of the vibration coming
up through the body?
The harshness of this car's ride was especially noticeable after
renting a Camry. Yeah, I know, different-level cars, but still,
my 4WD truck (Toyota 4Runner) rides smoother than the Rabbit, and
soaks up those potholes with much more aplomb.
Bilstein's - are they worth the significant higher price in an
app such as this? I've got to make the decision soon.
Thanks,
Chuck
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
EVCN Larkspur 94939_1 Adopt-a-Charger sponsor (evchargernews.com)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1989 GMC : 3500 Vandura
Item number: 320138527359
These just appeared on E-Bay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How did you get EV1 NiMh modules in the first place?
On 7/16/07, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
> Mark Hanson wrote:
> >> I tried an EV-1 NiMh in my boat as a starting battery and
> >> a smaller one about the size of a tractor battery as an
> >> auxiliary batter in my EV.
> >> Both die within a week of being fully charged. The fast
How do you know they are fully charged? The middle cells in a module
can get considerably hotter than those near the ends and while hot, they
will not charge not matter how many Ah you put into them.
> >> self discharge rate is horrible. I switched back to lead
> >> batteries in both cases. I havn't had that problem with
> >> Ni-Cads even thoughg they are a nickel chemistry.
> >> Is that an inherent problem with MiMH batteries?
>
> Nimh cells do have a high self-discharge rate; though one week is
> unusually fast. Check each cell voltage. I found that 1 or 2
> cells were bad in most of the EV1 modules I have.
It must also be said that the older Ovonics cells are relatively poor
amongst NiMH. The Panasonics were considered the best, with the Saft
NiMH a close second.
The present production Cobasys 9500 cells are using a different material
(AB5 vs AB2) and hold the promise of nearing the Panasonic level of
performance.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many of us can't read what you're saying because you are using "rich"
formatting for your text. Go to Gmail where you can select to use
"plain" formatting for your text.
On 7/16/07, Steve Hawkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard Acuti wrote:
> EV's themselves (not counting the power plant) are 100% clean
> from the cradle to the grave. There will never be an oil leak,
> a fuel leak, or an antifreeze drip from them.
Unfortunately, this isn't true for most EVs. They are definitely better
in this regard than ICE vehicles, but they do not achieve the "never
leak" ideal.
Most conversions still have a tranny, and these do have oil which can,
and eventually will, leak (the one in my EV does :(. Even a tranny-less
EV will usually have a differential, which also requires oil and can and
will leak eventually.
OEM EVs tend to have liquid-cooled motors and electronics, so anitfreeze
is still present and will, in all likelihood, eventually leak. AC
conversions may have liquid-cooled motors and electronics, and even our
DC conversions with air-cooled motors may have liquid-cooled 'Zillas in
them. While many EVs use ceramic heaters, there are some using
electrically-heated water/coolant circulating through a stock heater
core (more possibility of antifreeze leaks), and there have been some
EVs built with gasoline-burning heaters, so oddly enough there are some
out there whose EVs may in fact develop a fuel leak! ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow! $4000 for an electric car! But 1973. :-( Anybody have an update
on Waterman?
On 7/16/07, David Gonzales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Vintage EV article: CHW Datsun 1200 from Athol, MA
(1973)
Some of you might find this interesting: full text and
photos.
http://datsun1200.com/modules/nsections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=87
Car and Driver magazine October 1973
ATHOL'S ANSWER TO THE ENERGY CRISIS
Apparently CHW morphed into US Electricar which sold
the Leopard?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the
tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
--- End Message ---
