Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:38:48 -0700
EV Digest 7044
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Is THIS the PHEV announcement ?
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Number of E-mails
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: batteries: another increasing range question
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Fwd: best way to transport a newly purchased EV
by BrownGassyTurd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Not a 'Heavy metal garden tractor'
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Simple Controller
by Thomas Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Understanding SOC
by Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: batteries: another increasing range question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Understanding SOC
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Not a 'Heavy metal garden tractor'
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: batteries: another increasing range question
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Tell Me Which DC to DC Converter I Should Use
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: batteries: another increasing range question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Understanding SOC
by Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: batteries: another increasing range question
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Understanding SOC
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: batteries: another increasing range question
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: "Tree House" Controller
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Drawbacks re Zap Xebra motor?...
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Understanding SOC
by Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: batteries: another increasing range question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Understanding SOC
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: best way to transport a newly purchased EV
by Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Curtis Battery Book
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Tell Me Which DC to DC Converter I Should Use
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Understanding SOC
by Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: 6v or 12v
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: batteries: another increasing range question
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Understanding SOC
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Hm. Interesting, although the lease program to only government entities sounds fishy. Also no mention is made of any specs. Also, the article is not terribly positive on EVs. Besides.. they aren't doing it in the US, where you would think they would give it a first go considering their third party competition for the technology. So.....Hm. :-) On 7/20/07, Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Is THIS the PHEV announcement Every One has been Waiting For ? Dateline TOYOTA Japan 20 - July Off the Google - Alert - Electric Car News Feed... ( http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200707200126.html ) -- Steven S. Lough, Pres. Seattle EV Association 6021 32nd Ave. N.E. Seattle, WA 98115-7230 Day: 206 850-8535 Eve: 206 524-1351 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.seattleeva.org-- If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. -----Samuel Adams
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--- Begin Message ---<snip>People post when something catches their interest. Threads feed on themselves. Sometimes the flames actually die down, giving us a good opportunity to toast some marshmallows. ;-)Ha! :-) Yeah.. summer it would come down because folks are workiing on their EVs a lot and not jawing so much :) Bet money it goes back up in the third week of august! --T
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--- Begin Message ---I appreciate all the suggestions. If they I get AGMs, and drove the route I quoted before, at most 3 times a week, would they last 4 months? After that, they would mostly get a 4 mile round trip drive, occasionally, as I ride in a vanpool to work. So the question is, if I only need the range for 90 days, not consecutive, would that work? With a pack that of 144V, 70 - 80 Ah batteries, at the C/20 rate? Thanks again, Brian On Wed Jul 18 11:29 , Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent: >Joe wrote: > >> Optima YT's would give you 75 Ah, so would double your range; >> would do it in the summer, or spring/fall, but maybe not in >> winter, unless you use G31's, which are around 90 Ah. > >You gotta tell the rest of us where you buy your Optimas! ;^> > >The Optima D34 (YT) and D34M (BT) (Group 34) batteries I can buy are >rated 55Ah C/20, and are good for about 35-40Ah in the real world. The >D31M (Group 31) is only rated 75Ah C/20, and so basedon the Group 34 >performance would be good for about 48-55Ah in the real world: > >http://www.optimabatteries.com/publish/optima/americas0/en/config/produ >ct_info/marine/technical_specs.html> > >I still wouldn't suggest using AGMs in this application since they just >aren't going to last very long if cycled deeply (75-80%DOD) every >outing. > >Cheers, > >Roger. ---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/
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--- Begin Message ---For the EVDL as well. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: BrownGassyTurd Date: Jul 20, 2007 11:05 AM Subject: Re: best way to transport a newly purchased EV To: Michael Mohlere The more the merrier. Manny On 7/20/07, Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I added the truck!!! Cool page....I'll pass the word out to the MAEAA list if you want... Mike From: BrownGassyTurd To: "Michael Mohlere" Subject: Re: best way to transport a newly purchased EV Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:24:51 -0700 Yeah, don't have a "Name My Car Party" at least not with my "friends". Of course, they say they were not talking about the car... I'll be in a 70's Disco Metallic Brown car for awhile, so I may as well roll with it. LMAO I did already reserve a replacement email address for when I finally do get a paint job. (Final Phase of Project) I think I paid a fair price for everything (or maybe too much as the seller said "OK" to my offer pretty fast.) Live and Learn. A local EV club member wants to trade his larger motor for my Warp Impulse 9; as he has very little room in his car and EVery inch counts (that didn't come out right.) Finally, It took me a long time to switch to Google, but now, I can not see me EVer leaving it... PS. Once you get a picture of your EV in hand, sign in to my Frap. It is way cool to see where fellow EV'rs are on an animated Google map. (Aw crap, I'm late for work...) Manny -- http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1117 http://EVorBust.blogspot.com On 7/20/07, Michael Mohlere wrote: >Manny - > >Thanks for the info...interesting moniker ya got there....!!! I requested >a >quote via the web site - will let you know what comes of it if . Checked >out the web page for the BGT ... I would imagine you picked up that motor >(netgain 9") for a song...quite a find! > >Also, how do you like "gmail"? I've been using hotmail for years, but have >considered switching of late.... > >Thx, Mike >
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--- Begin Message ---Item 130135897618 on ebay. This would be like showing up to the Wayland international and find out Tim's racing a GEM! Rod --- Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is THIS the PHEV announcement Every One has been > Waiting For ? > > Dateline TOYOTA Japan 20 - July > Off the Google - Alert - Electric Car News Feed... > > ( > http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200707200126.html > ) > -- > Steven S. Lough, Pres. > Seattle EV Association > 6021 32nd Ave. N.E. > Seattle, WA 98115-7230 > Day: 206 850-8535 > Eve: 206 524-1351 > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > web: http://www.seattleeva.org > >
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--- Begin Message ---> By about 15mph the voltage is about 140-180V depending on SOC. oops silly me, not dependent on SOC. Thomas Ward wrote:Your motor is series?I think this may be because at about 7mph the voltage in the armature of this sepex motor is already about 90volts 90V x 200A is a > 15KW.By about 15mph the voltage is about 140-180V depending on SOC.The voltage in a series motor at 7-15mph is going to be about 10-20V ? so it needs higher amps.I guess acceleration is relative but 0-60 in the van seems OK to me probably about 30 seconds, its fairly aerodynamic, petrol version does about 45mpg.Peter VanDerWal wrote:Something doesn't add up. My truck weighs 1.5 tons. My controller does 550 amps, motor loop, and 350 amps battery loop. Acceleration is lethargic, 0-60mph in about 1.5 minutes.I have always been curious about the need for high amps. The documentation for Citroen Berlingos states that peak current is 200 amps, and I think this is probably correct because the IGBT is only rated 300 amps. There is more than enough acceleration. Vehicle weighs 2 tonnes. The motor is a sepex, is that why Citroen can get away with this low amperage and still have acceleration at low speed? Perhaps this a way forward for budget controllers, 100 amp continuous + sepex motor? Rich Rudman wrote:300 amps and 300 volts... Not even Curtis amps.... Hoo ho ho... Good onethere...
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--- Begin Message ---Help please! My mane is jeff McCabe. Ive had my conversion on the road now for two weeks now and im trying to get a better understanding on how to gauge my DOD. I have a 928 Porsche with a 9"adc, 1200 Raptor and 26 pc1500 batteryies. My soc meter reads 100% for a full charge and decreases % depending on dod. Ive made two runs the last few weeks of 43 and 45 miles. Bothe times taking individual vbattery voltage down to 12.08-12.1, measured right after I have stopped.Pack voltage read 157.2-157.7 also.I know you have allot of time using the odysseys and would like to know what you can safetly pull the voltage down to per battery and pack for an 80% dod. I Have the Odyssey owners manual that states 11.8 volts for an 80% dod.Just wnated to know if this was advised. My normal commute Is less than 20 miles , so I wont be taking the battery below 50% very often. Thanks for any guidance , Jeff Mccabe http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/736
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--- Begin Message ---[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > If they I get AGMs, and > drove the route I quoted before, at most 3 times a week, > would they last 4 months? After that, they would mostly get > a 4 mile round trip drive, occasionally, as I ride in a > vanpool to work. > > So the question is, if I only need the range for 90 days, not > consecutive, would that work? With a pack that of 144V, 70 - > 80 Ah batteries, at the C/20 rate? A 144V string of Optima D31Ms (75Ah C/20) would probably handle this OK. If you wanted to try using some other AGM, you would need to determine if they will tolerate seeing discharge rates in the 400-500A range, and what their actual capacity would be at your typical discharge rate; not all AGMs are well-suited to EV use. But... why are you so intent to use AGMs again? The best price I found in a quick Internet search is $190/ea, so this would be a $2300 pack, which is a fair bit of money to risk throwing away needlessly. Do you know how you killed your first set of AGMs? Do you have regs on your batteries? What do you have for a charger? If you don't have the care and feeding of the AGMs covered properly you will murder them quickly even if you aren't discharging them to death. In a Beetle conversion, I wouldn't expect you to have any problem accomodating 120-144V of flooded 12V batteries (in terms of being able to install them upright and acess them for occasional watering). The 12V floodeds will tolerate deep cyling and less than perfect charging better than AGMs. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---Jeff Mccabe wrote: > My soc meter reads 100% for a full charge and > decreases % depending on dod. Ive made two runs the > last few weeks of 43 and 45 miles. Bothe times taking > individual vbattery voltage down to 12.08-12.1, > measured right after I have stopped. An open circuit voltage of right about 2.0V/cell or 12V/battery indicates they are basically empty (100% DOD). > would like to know what you can safetly pull the > voltage down to per battery and pack for an 80% dod. That's a tougher question. The voltage normally used is 1.75V/cell or 10.5V/battery under load as indicating 100%DOD. It sounds like you are getting about 43-45mi to 100%DOD, so 80%DOD would be somewhere around 34-35mi under the same driving conditions. What do you have for an SOC meter? Is it a Link10/E-Meter or some meter that estimates SOC based on battery voltage only? > I Have the Odyssey owners manual that states 11.8 > volts for an 80% dod. That would be the voltage under load (while driving), not open-circuit after stopping. > My normal commute Is less than 20 miles , so > I wont be taking the battery below 50% very often. Based on your information above, it sounds like a 20mi trip would be right around 50%DOD under the same driving conditions as your 43-45mi runs were made. When the weather cools, 20mi will be more than 50%DOD unless you have battery heaters to keep the batteries warm. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message --- Wow, it has 50% more battery capacity than my Black & Decker battery powered push mower and can run for up to 6 times as long not to mention you get to ride. Sign me up...From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Not a 'Heavy metal garden tractor' Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Item 130135897618 on ebay. This would be like showing up to the Wayland international and find out Tim's racing a GEM! Rod_________________________________________________________________ http://liveearth.msn.com
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--- Begin Message ---At 01:08 PM 7/20/2007, Roger Stockton wrote:But... why are you so intent to use AGMs again? The best price I found in a quick Internet search is $190/ea, so this would be a $2300 pack,Cheaper than that at CostCo. Also http://www.batteriesareus.com Has a free shipping for the next couple of days on YT's. D850U Qty 9 for $155They have other models as well - and I can never figure out the model numbers...-- John G. Lussmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---Richard Acuti wrote: > So: If mine died, what is available in that input/output > voltage and power range? Just give me some brand names > and I'll look them up. The Curtis 1400E will run from 65%-115% of nominal input voltage, and there is a 120/144V model: <http://curtisinst.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=cProducts.dspProductCategory &catID=16> Have a look at the datasheet. I think the models of interest to you would be: 1400E-120-1201 (13.5V @ 28A output, 120V nominal input) 1400E-120-1211 (13.5V @ 22A output, 120V nominal input) 1400E-120-1212 (14.0V @ 282 output, 120V nominal input) Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---John G. Lussmyer wrote: > At 01:08 PM 7/20/2007, Roger Stockton wrote: > >But... why are you so intent to use AGMs again? The best > >price I found in a quick Internet search is $190/ea, so > >this would be a $2300 pack, > > Cheaper than that at CostCo. > Also http://www.batteriesareus.com > Has a free shipping for the next couple of days on YT's. > D850U Qty 9 for $155 The D850U is the Group34 YT with top and side terminals; a better choice for this size is the D750S (top post only) for $145/ea (qty 10+), if you want YTs. I'd actually go for the BT myself to get the threaded stud for reg/balancer connections in addition to the SAE posts for the traction wiring. Plus the BT D900M is cheaper: $140/ea (qty 10+). I was referring to the larger D31M, and batteriesareus is actually where I found the $190/ea price. Other places were between $210-230/ea. I hadn't scrolled to the bottom of the page where the quantity pricing is, so it turns out that they can be had for $165/ea (qty 10-14). What's Costco's price on the D31M? I don't think I've seen anything but the smaller D34 at my local Costcos. Anyway, the exact cost isn't the point; the point is that the AGM will cost more than a similar size flooded and can be murdered more easily so is a riskier option unless other factors dictate their use. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ------ Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jeff Mccabe wrote: > > > My soc meter reads 100% for a full charge and > > decreases % depending on dod. Ive made two runs > the > > last few weeks of 43 and 45 miles. Bothe times > taking > > individual vbattery voltage down to 12.08-12.1, > > measured right after I have stopped. > > An open circuit voltage of right about 2.0V/cell or > 12V/battery > indicates they are basically empty (100% DOD). Im using Odessey Mil. spec. there claim is 11.6 open circuit voltage for 100%dod. > > > would like to know what you can safetly pull the > > voltage down to per battery and pack for an 80% > dod. > > That's a tougher question. The voltage normally > used is 1.75V/cell or > 10.5V/battery under load as indicating 100%DOD. > > It sounds like you are getting about 43-45mi to > 100%DOD, so 80%DOD would > be somewhere around 34-35mi under the same driving > conditions. > > What do you have for an SOC meter? Is it a > Link10/E-Meter or some meter > that estimates SOC based on battery voltage only? percentage estimate of soc meter. > > > I Have the Odyssey owners manual that states > 11.8 > > volts for an 80% dod. > > That would be the voltage under load (while > driving), not open-circuit > after stopping. The manual specifally states open circuit voltage of 11.8v is 80% dod, 11.6 is 100% thanks,Jeff > > > My normal commute Is less than 20 miles , so > > I wont be taking the battery below 50% very often. > > Based on your information above, it sounds like a > 20mi trip would be > right around 50%DOD under the same driving > conditions as your 43-45mi > runs were made. When the weather cools, 20mi will > be more than 50%DOD > unless you have battery heaters to keep the > batteries warm. > > Cheers, > > Roger. > >
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--- Begin Message ---At 01:50 PM 7/20/2007, Roger Stockton wrote:What's Costco's price on the D31M? I don't think I've seen anything but the smaller D34 at my local Costcos.Sorry, I was thinking D34's with CostCo. -- John G. Lussmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---Jeff Mccabe wrote: > Im using Odessey Mil. spec. there claim is 11.6 open > circuit voltage for 100%dod. > The manual specifally states open circuit voltage of > 11.8v is 80% dod, 11.6 is 100% Well, good luck with that then. I have the manual too. Read the part in the manual where they provide the spec table for the PC1500. Discharge to 1.67V/cell (under load) for 100% DOD, just like every other PbA battery (except most stop at 1.75V/cell unless the discharge rate is high relative to the battery capacity, or the manufacturer is trying to exaggerate their battery's performance). I've run enough capacity tests on enough different batteries to say with some confidence that once you have discharged the battery to 100%DOD (1.75V/cell, or 1.67V/cell if you prefer), and remove the load, the voltage will recover to very nearly 12V/battery in about 15-30min. If you try discharging your batteries until they are recovering to only 11.8V after 6-8hr rest (as described in the manual), they will not last as you will be over-discharging one or more cells in order to get them that low. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---At 01:50 PM 7/20/2007, Roger Stockton wrote:> Cheaper than that at CostCo. > Also http://www.batteriesareus.com > Has a free shipping for the next couple of days on YT's. > D850U Qty 9 for $155 The D850U is the Group34 YT with top and side terminals; a better choice for this size is the D750S (top post only) for $145/ea (qty 10+), if you want YTs. I'd actually go for the BT myself to get the threaded stud for reg/balancer connections in addition to the SAE posts for the traction wiring. Plus the BT D900M is cheaper: $140/ea (qty 10+).The Cheaper price on the D900M's makes me suspicious that they aren't really the full deep cycle battery. Since I'm about to replace my Sparrow pack (13 batteries) I'm REALLY tempted by the $140 price...-- John G. Lussmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---wow, that had all the objectivity of a 'support the troops sign'is daddy in his sweatty wife beater getting afraid that his kids might succeed?Lee Hart wrote:If you lower your expectations enough, then a simple PWM controller is possible. The main tradeoffs are:- It will be acoustically noisy (you can hear it operating), - It will be slightly less efficient (a few percent). - Power will be modest, like a Curtis controller. - It won't be "idiot proof", i.e. it will have little or no protection from overtemperature, undervoltage, overcurrent, etc. - It will have somewhat "lumpy" operation; things like a small lurch when starting out, or a throttle response that doesn't match a normal ICE's, etc. - There will be "surprise" failure modes, due to design or assembly errors (stuff you don't know when you build it).SCRs are cheap, rugged, and easy to turn on (even easier than MOSFETs or IGBTs). The tradeoff is that they are hard to turn off. The classic method is to have a big inductor, a big capacitor, and 1 or 2 extra big SCRs or diodes. The circuits are very basic and well documented; it's just that these are big parts!could not the IGBTt just be in line with the motor and batteries switched on and off by a gate current? I'm well aware of the problems involved with real controllers, it just seems like a solid state on/off switch could be rigged up without any bells or whistles.If you're using the IGBT as a solid-state contactor, then there are no switching loss concerns. You just have to deal with the heat produced by its 3v drop at full current.You will always need a freewheel diode. It is easiest to get an IGBT module that has one built-in, as it will naturally have short leads and be matched to the IGBT's capabilities.If you want to duty-cycle modulate that IGBT to make a PWM controller, then it gets interesting. Now you have to deal with switching losses, which can exceed conduction losses (twice the heat, which means twice the cooling and/or having to use the parts at half their ratings). And, you have to make fast, accurate measurements in noisy high-power switching circuits, for current limit and voltage protection to work.I think the trouble with simple cheap controllers is the "tree house" problem. It goes like this:1. Kids want a tree house. They know they can scrounge up some scrap lumber, find a can of rusty nails in the garage, steal dad's hammer and saw, and build it in a day or two! 2. But dad knows it will be a ramshackle structure, badly built, probably unsafe, and certainly ugly. What's likely to happen? A. Kids don't tell dad. They build it themselves. It takes a week instead of a month, due to all the "surprises" along the way. They smash thumbs, get splinters, bend nails, need to scrounge more materials, but manage to cobble something together. It looks and works terrible; but they learned a lot and love it anyway. B. Dad gets involved. He says, "We have to do this right". He makes plans, buys materials, tries to supervise but winds up doing it himself because the kid's workmanship is so poor. It takes him all summer to build it. It looks great and is safe; but the kids rarely use it; they're off on some other hot new interest.It's hard for experts to remember that beginners have far lower standards of quality and performance. The expert knows how to do it "right" -- build something that even he would be proud to use. But it's very hard for him to build a "tree house controller" that is disgustingly cheap crude and primitive.But the beginner, having no experience with real controllers, may be perfectly happy with a "tree house controller", thrown together out of cheap surplus parts, that works but has all sorts of problems.The middle ground is difficult to achieve. It would be like: C. Dad supervises, but forces himself to keep his hands in his pockets and his mouth shut most of the time. He shows them how to use a hammer and saw, but doesn't do the work for them (so they learn how to do it themselves). He shows them how to make strong joints so it won't fall apart, but lets them do it their way (so they learn the consequences of not doing it right). Dad knows that learning is the real goal; not the end product itself.The end result is a tree house that still looks pretty crude; but it is a heck of a lot stronger and safer that it would have been without adult supervision. And the kids still love it, because they made it themselves!
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--- Begin Message ------ Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jeff Mccabe wrote: > > > Im using Odessey Mil. spec. there claim is 11.6 > open > > circuit voltage for 100%dod. > > > The manual specifally states open circuit voltage > of > > 11.8v is 80% dod, 11.6 is 100% > > Well, good luck with that then. I have the manual > too. > > Read the part in the manual where they provide the > spec table for the > PC1500. Discharge to 1.67V/cell (under load) for > 100% DOD, just like > every other PbA battery (except most stop at > 1.75V/cell unless the > discharge rate is high relative to the battery > capacity, or the > manufacturer is trying to exaggerate their battery's > performance). > > I've run enough capacity tests on enough different > batteries to say with > some confidence that once you have discharged the > battery to 100%DOD > (1.75V/cell, or 1.67V/cell if you prefer), and > remove the load, the > voltage will recover to very nearly 12V/battery in > about 15-30min. If > you try discharging your batteries until they are > recovering to only > 11.8V after 6-8hr rest (as described in the manual), > they will not last > as you will be over-discharging one or more cells in > order to get them > that low. I agree, I also read this. The voltage of 12.08 read was less than 2 minutes after stopping. This was before the voltage had a chance to rise back up. I don't think I was anywhere near 100% DOD because I had no noticeable power drop off under acceleration and my soc meter never went below 30-35% soc remaining. I'm just trying to learn here? Jeff > > Cheers, > > Roger. > >
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--- Begin Message ---John G. Lussmyer wrote: > The Cheaper price on the D900M's makes me suspicious > that they aren't really the full deep cycle battery. They're exactly the same inside, just be sure you get the light grey case (deep cycle), not the dark grey case (starting). Remember, the YT is sold primarily to the higher-end car audio crowd while the BT targets marine applications. Course, if you're leery, it's only $5/ea more for the YTs. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---Jeff Mccabe wrote: > I agree, I also read this. The voltage of 12.08 read > was less than 2 minutes after stopping. In less than 2min after stopping you were able to measure the voltages of each of 26 batteries (or at least each of 13 buddy-pairs)? That's pretty damn quick. ;^> > This was before the voltage had a chance to rise back up. The voltage will jump up dramatically immediately as soon as the load is removed, and gradually rises to its final value over a much longer time. Your batteries might not have recovered to much more than 12.15-12.2V each, which is only very slightly over 2.0V/cell. > I don't think I was anywhere near 100% DOD because I > had no noticeable power drop off under acceleration > and my soc meter never went below 30-35% soc > remaining. With AGMs, you often won't notice any drop in power until they go completely flat. That is, by the time you notice a pronounced loss of power, its too late. If you don't have a pack voltmeter installed it will be especially difficult to tell if the pack is getting low since you won't see the voltage sagging as you accelerate. What is the make/brand of SOC meter you have? If it is intended for use on flooded batteries, then it will over-estimate your SOC because AGMs will hold a little higher voltage than floodeds at a given SOC. See <http://www.trojanbattery.com/Tech-Support/BatteryMaintenance/Testing.as px>, for instance. If you can get one, an E-Meter/Link10 is a very useful instrument as it combines a pack voltmeter, ammeter, Ah/Wh counter, and fuel gauge into a single unit. It is a proven performer, and if you get one with the RS232 port, you can log all this data during charge and discharge. Another promising looking instrumentation option is the PakTrakr, though I haven't yet got my hands on one to see how it performs. The advantage of the PakTrakr is that it can monitor each module's voltage instead of just that of the total pack. If it can do as well at the basic Ah or Wh tracking as the E-Meter/Link10 it could be the new king off the hill. Victor at MetricMind has a sophisticated pack monitor as well, but I'm not sure if it is out of beta test yet. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---Manny -Took your recommendation and hired National to ship the EV next week. Thanks for helping out. Just a coincidence, but the name of the chap that booked the trip was "Manny" also....!!!Mike> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:07:55 -0700> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Subject: Re: best way to transport a newly purchased EV> > I used and do not hesitate in recommending:> www.nationalautoshipping.com> toll free phone 1-877-393-3232> toll free fax 1-888-415-1113> The driver brought my car from Maryland to So.California and gave me> status reports and cell phone pictures from the trip.> Oh yeah they pretty much had the cheapest quote too. :)> > Manny> > > On 7/19/07, Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > If anyone can provide a referral to a good, reliable shipper for> > transporting my newly purchase EV from> > Roeland Park, KS to Huntsville, AL, I'm all ears...have a similar post on> > the MAEEA (sp?) list.> >> > Thx, Mike> >> > ________! _________________________________________________________> > http://newlivehotmail.com> >> >> > > -- > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1117> http://EVorBust.blogspot.com> _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best web mail—award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707
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--- Begin Message --- I am sure it has been said before, but many of the battery questions are answered in the Curtis Battery Book athttp://evbatterymonitoring.com/ John in Sylmar, CA PV EV
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--- Begin Message ---ElectroAuto shipped me a 400 watt DCDC with a 144 volt rated input voltage It is made by http://www.ccpowerltd.co.uk/dcdcconvertors.htm Their web site does not show a 144 volt model but they will apparently do custom units. At least they did one for ElectroAuto thet ended up with me. I have yet to get the EV Truck running so I can not comment on its durability or performance. John ---- Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hmmm....I have the Sevcon 128/12 model yet when I went to their website, all > I could find were much lower input voltage models (72v). Did they quit > making the 128v models? That would be very uncool. I love mine. I was going > to recommend it until I couldn't find it. > > So: If mine died, what is available in that input/output voltage and power > range? Just give me some brand names and I'll look them up. > > Rich A. > > > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:06:05 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu > Subject: Re: Tell Me Which DC to DC Converter I Should Use > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > From: Joseph Lado > >I have had it. I have been stranded by my auxilary battery. I don't > >have a DC to DC converter... If I have to drive at night in rain I can > >only go about 10 miles before the battery craps out. I need a DC to DC > >converter. I tried to use the IOTA 35. That didn't work. My pack is > >108 volt pack and somehow that isn't enough for the IOTA35. > > The Iota is really a 120vac input supply. It rectifies this to produce 160 > volts > DC. Your 108 volt pack is much less than this -- too low for the Iota to > work > acceptably. > > >Just tell me what I should buy that works with my 18 Trojan 6 volt > >batteries? What is the best choice? > > "Best" is a judgement call. But if it were me, I'd look for a pair of 48v > input, > 13.5v output DC/DC converters. These are very common, as 48vdc is widely > used in > industry and telephone systems. Use two of them, each powered by half your > pack > (108v/2 = 54v; these converters actually work from 36-72vdc). Two converters > also provides redundancy; if one fails, the other still provides 12v power. > > -- > "Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James > -- > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07 >
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--- Begin Message ------ Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jeff Mccabe wrote: > > > I agree, I also read this. The voltage of 12.08 > read > > was less than 2 minutes after stopping. > > In less than 2min after stopping you were able to > measure the voltages > of each of 26 batteries (or at least each of 13 > buddy-pairs)? That's > pretty damn quick. ;^> yaa, im good : ), no I only measured the first five or six buddy pairs. > > > This was before the voltage had a chance to rise > back up. > > The voltage will jump up dramatically immediately as > soon as the load is > removed, and gradually rises to its final value over > a much longer time. > Your batteries might not have recovered to much more > than 12.15-12.2V > each, which is only very slightly over 2.0V/cell. > > > I don't think I was anywhere near 100% DOD > because I > > had no noticeable power drop off under > acceleration > > and my soc meter never went below 30-35% soc > > remaining. > > With AGMs, you often won't notice any drop in power > until they go > completely flat. That is, by the time you notice a > pronounced loss of > power, its too late. > > If you don't have a pack voltmeter installed it will > be especially > difficult to tell if the pack is getting low since > you won't see the > voltage sagging as you accelerate. > What is the make/brand of SOC meter you have? If it > is intended for use > on flooded batteries, then it will over-estimate > your SOC because AGMs > will hold a little higher voltage than floodeds at a > given SOC. Dont knoow off hand, came with the Electro Automotive kit. > See > <http://www.trojanbattery.com/Tech-Support/BatteryMaintenance/Testing.as > px>, for instance. > > If you can get one, an E-Meter/Link10 is a very > useful instrument as it > combines a pack voltmeter, ammeter, Ah/Wh counter, > and fuel gauge into a > single unit. It is a proven performer, and if you > get one with the > RS232 port, you can log all this data during charge > and discharge. > > Another promising looking instrumentation option is > the PakTrakr, though > I haven't yet got my hands on one to see how it > performs. The advantage > of the PakTrakr is that it can monitor each module's > voltage instead of > just that of the total pack. If it can do as well > at the basic Ah or Wh > tracking as the E-Meter/Link10 it could be the new > king off the hill. Yaa, seriously thinking about getting this setup, looks promissing. Thanks, Jeff > > Victor at MetricMind has a sophisticated pack > monitor as well, but I'm > not sure if it is out of beta test yet. > > Cheers, > > Roger. > >
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--- Begin Message ---"Is 240v too much?" I don't really know, but from looking at different EV conversions, I think that 240 volts might be too much for an 8'' motor. On 7/20/07, Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I'll be moving my Optima batteries to my sailboat, so I'm going to get some new batteries for the Fiero. I'm leaning towards getting the Trojan 24TM 12v batteries, and go with 10-20 of them. It seems to me the higher voltage is going to reduce current draw and be better for range via pukert. How many volts can an ADC 8" motor be OK with? Is 240v too much? Jack
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--- Begin Message ---At 02:35 PM 7/20/2007, Roger Stockton wrote:John G. Lussmyer wrote: > The Cheaper price on the D900M's makes me suspicious > that they aren't really the full deep cycle battery. They're exactly the same inside, just be sure you get the light grey case (deep cycle), not the dark grey case (starting).Aren't those different part numbers? -- John G. Lussmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---Jeff Mccabe wrote: > > > I don't think I was anywhere near 100% DOD One last note on this point: Al Godfrey is running 26 Optimas in his 928. His AC drive is likely a bit more efficient than your DC system, but his auto transaxle may be a bit lossier than your manual. A data point from him was running about 25-30km to 50%DOD. Your PC1500s have a bit more capacity at the 1 hour rate than his Optimas, which pushes this up to about 30-35km to 50% for your pack. That makes it 60-70km to 100%DOD, and that's 37-43mi. You've actually gotten 43-45mi, which suggests your car may be a bit more efficent than Al's overall, but I don't think you have been all that far from 100%DOD... Cheers, Roger.
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