EV Digest 7076
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Solectria
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Insurance
by "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - wide vs narrow
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
by BrownGassyTurd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Zilla Radiator- Fan/ no Fan
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) 96 S10 a good candidate?
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 96 S10 a good candidate?
by BrownGassyTurd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: NEDRA Nationals Raffle motor
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Resurgence of dial up.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) delurking
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) More DIY/kit potbox musings
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Two EV vans on e-bay
by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Karmann Ghia Design - System voltage
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Check out Solectria E10:
item 140142830024
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140142830024&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.search.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D140142830024%26fvi%3D1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 28, 2007, at 11:21 AM, John Wayland wrote:
Grrrrrr!!! This truncated stuff has me frustrated! I was not able
to read Dennis Berube's post today, nor this one from Robert. David
Roden says I'm off about the ratio of truncated emails coming in
from the EVDL, but whatever it is, it is something that started a
few months ago, and seems to be getting worse.
I use Thunderbird as my email system, but I have no idea of how to
set it so I can once again, enjoy the EVDL. If anyone else using
Thunderbird can help me make a change, I'm listening.
Try this for an offending message:
Click "View" then "Message Body As" then "Plain Text".
Alternatively, you can just see the whole message by clicking "View -
> Message Source".
The first option may not work due to the way the list's html removal
is working (or not working!) right now. Both of these ideas where
found by searching for Thunderbird help online and may not appear
exactly the same in all version of Thunderbird. At any rate, the
answer to seeing a truncated message is almost certainly in the
"View" menu (in almost any e-mail software.)
The first method has been working for me with Apple Mail (in my case
"Message Body As" is called "Message ->") and is also available as
the keyboard shortcut <command option p>.
HTH,
Paul Gooch
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Being able to access info while off line would be nice. A php forum just
doesn't have that feature. Depending on how you get your email, email lists
make more sense here. I have always though it was kinda sad that so much
information could be lost on a php site. Much of the time, with smaller sites,
the site admin defaults on payments and all of the info on the site is gone for
ever.
Brian
---- "Jukka Järvinen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
=============
Right. php's are fine but not when you're off line on the sky to get
somewhere. Standard makes nothing better. It just tells that majority
might be idiots.
Was there not a command in the EVDL that sent ALL previous mails
(archives too) to the registred email address ? (can't remember if there
were)
If I wish to search anything from EVDL I just use my thunderbirds search
engine. Oldest mail in the folder is like from 2002 or so. Anything I
need is there and even off line. And that IS simple and it works anytime
and it's fast.
(I took over 5 years old messages out from this folder :) They are
somewhere stored...in a lonely HD somwhere..
Just a brief question to old timers. When was the EVDL formed ? I have
no clue..
Thou.. I have to admit that the siplicity of EVDL does not support all
neat new features that web based ones have by default. But.. You can
always have a link in your email and that kinda makes current EVDL even
more versatile.
I would miss a LOT if the EVDL changed to web-only mode.
-Jukka
Brian Jackson kirjoitti:
> Here here. php forums are the standard these days. I was actually looking for
> a forum when I stumbled across this. The archives are a bit of a pain to
> search. I actually used my Google tool bar to search them and it worked well,
> but many people would not go to that trouble. This is just how things go. php
> replaced mailing lists. Email lists replaced paper mailing lists. paper
> mailing lists replaced chisel and stone :)
>
> Brian
>
>
> ---- "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> =============
> Scam? Like what?
>
> The facts are:
>
> - Most people on this list would like to see EVs go mainstream.
> - Allot of people on this list have no idea how to search the archive or
> where to go to do it, nor do they wish to take the time to figure it out
> when a web forum offers the convenience right in front of their faces on
> every single page.
>
> Mailing lists of this size are unwieldy and antiquated - and not readily
> embraced by the AOL/MySpace generation of internet users.
>
> I used to run a fairly large mailing list and am familiar with many aspects
> of operating them, but I hate the snot out of the format now. Instead of
> just browsing through threads adressing subjects of immediate interest or
> being able to easily and conveniently search, I end up having to press the
> delete key endlessly on stuff that I am not the least bit interested in.
>
> Mailing lists are best for immediate polling of the knowledge base of it's
> users or for sending alerts, but when it comes to the basics, we need
> something better. I'm not complaining about the quality of the discussion
> here, but merely the shotgun disorganized nature of the format. Until
> something better catches on, it will do. But I really hope something better
> catches on!
>
> If we wanted to make EV conversion easier and more mainstream, doesn't it
> make sense to make the access to the information meet the same criteria?
>
> Someday, I will be a seasoned EV'er, and I probably won't be talking about
> it much here except to redirect people to a more convenient format.
>
> I have registered on the new forum and hope to see many others do so as
> well. Continuing to stick to this list as the sole means of technical
> support is a Luddistic insistance on not progressing the cause.
>
> --
> Kip
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:32 PM
> Subject: Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
>
>
>> I hope this forum that just popped up, isn't some sort
>> of scam, it might relieve you seasoned EV'rs from the
>> postings of us newbies, that don't search the archives
>> quite as well as needed (Yes I'm guilty). I'd hate to
>> see some of you guys leave the EVDL list, due to all
>> the new postings from us newbies. Please keep in mind
>> most of us are all working towards the same goal, to
>> be driving a EV rather than an ICE and for me, getting
>> the word out to more and more people about EV
>> conversions can only be a good thing.
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh yes, width will definitely impact the rolling resistance.
The Bridgestone Potenza RE92 are the OEM tire specified for the
Prius from years 2001 to 2003, they used the XL variant, which
allows a higher load rating than the standard RE92.
They certainly have a low rolling resistance.
In fact, I switched from the RE92 to HTR-200 on my Prius
and noticed an MPG hit (which is normal when putting new tires
on a car, as the increased amount of rubber means more energy
wasted in friction during compression)
Hth,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Phil Marino
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 5:48 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
>From: Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>CC: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:45:16 -0700
>
>True, old tires are very dangerous. Even if they don't blow out, they
>get hard and have poor traction. I am ashamed to admit that I actually
>caused an accident this way. I have an old set of tires on my Corvair truck
too.
>They don't have many miles on them, but they're about 10 years old. One
>of them blew out last week while the truck was parked.
>
>I have been looking at these tires for my EV project.
>
>http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=
>Potenza+RE92&vehicleSearch=false&partnum=665SR4RE92&fromCompare1=yes&pl
>ace=0
>
>Sorry for the long link. I have been looking at these because they are
>as narrow and as low profile as I can find for a 14" tire.
>
>Brian
>
>
Brian - do you know the rolling resistance factor for RE92's ? I don't
think I've ever seen them in a chart of low rolling resistance tires.
If you look at the GreenSeal paper, two of the lowest tires ( the
Bridgestone B381's and the Sumitomo HTR 200's are available in stock at
TireRack in 14 inch sizes - although not as narrow as the RE92 you are
looking at.
Why do you want the narrowest tire? Do you need a tire that small to fit
in your wheel well?
If not, it is more important to have a low rolling resistance tire. This
depends on the material and construction of the tire, not its width.
Phil Marino
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio
n_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The weather was touch and go at Quaker City Raceway in Salem, OH today
but the sun finally won out as Denis Stanislaw and AGNS captured NEDRA
record # 6 in the MT-D class. We set up with 14 DEKA's (168 volts) and
set our sites on the 12.49 record set back in 2004. We left the track
with a best run of 12.08 @ 102.91 in the semi final round of
eliminations. We had dialed a 12.07 and beat one of the regulars at the
the track and for a brief moment we thought Denis had made it all the
way to the finals. Unfortunately he was disqualified after the run for
going past the stage lights during his burnout. The 12.08 was backed up
with two runs of 12.15 @ 103 MPH. Next stop 240 volts !!! We may just
skip the 11's and head straight for the 10's. Probably not but it sure
sounds good.
Shawn Lawless
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn,
can you add a link with some pictures of the latest
incarnation of AGNS. maybe even a video link
great job, soon you may hold all the nedra records.
kEVs
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The weather was touch and go at Quaker City Raceway
> in Salem, OH today
> but the sun finally won out as Denis Stanislaw and
> AGNS captured NEDRA
> record # 6 in the MT-D class. We set up with 14
> DEKA's (168 volts) and
> set our sites on the 12.49 record set back in 2004.
> We left the track
> with a best run of 12.08 @ 102.91 in the semi final
> round of
> eliminations. We had dialed a 12.07 and beat one of
> the regulars at the
> the track and for a brief moment we thought Denis
> had made it all the
> way to the finals. Unfortunately he was disqualified
> after the run for
> going past the stage lights during his burnout. The
> 12.08 was backed up
> with two runs of 12.15 @ 103 MPH. Next stop 240
> volts !!! We may just
> skip the 11's and head straight for the 10's.
> Probably not but it sure
> sounds good.
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out
> more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for
today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And I was discounted when I brought it up. LOL
I use thunderbird and the truncated messages are almost as bad as when
people reply a whole digest or have a 8 level deep reply conersation
with one line of comment on a long post.
I use digests and just press control-u to "view source" I have also
edited the digest getting rid of the offending line that the list proc
is suppose to strip out and made it easier to view, but I am lazy.
Perhaps I need to write a script to "fix" digests
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My current agent said that they (Nationwide) will not insure modified
cars. So I'll be looking for another when the eVdub is done.
I thought about not telling them about the conversion, but my friend
who is an attorney (who represents various insurance companies) said
that if they find out that you have anything other than what is stated
in your policy (ie electric vs ICE) when filing a claim they will deny
you. Not only are you out the cost of the damage to your EV, but if
you caused the accident, you become personally liable for the other
party's damages.
Brian
On 7/28/07, Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I checked Hartford as well as GEICO, went with GEICO for much lower
> cost.
>
> Jerry
>
>
--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We are talking about the same thing.
in reference to the quote..
"For your 2-ton (4,000 lb) car, you will find that the area of the
contact patch is about equal to the weight of the car divided by the
tire pressure. In this case 4,000 pounds divided by 30 pounds per square
inch equals 133 square inches. That may seem like a lot, but your car's
tires are probably about 7 inches wide. That means that the contact
patch for each tire will be about 4.75 inches long."
On a narrow tire 133 square inches is a very "square" patch and the
relative defletion is quite high.
on a wider tire, 133 square inches is a longer skinnier patch with the
relative deflection a lot less.
it kinda balanced out.
I agree with most everything from that website, sorry if I wasn't clear.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry about not snipping out previous email, my bad.
Oh wait is that Jeff ?
Never mind.
:)
On 7/28/07, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And I was discounted when I brought it up. LOL
>
> I use thunderbird and the truncated messages are almost as bad as when
> people reply a whole digest or have a 8 level deep reply conersation
> with one line of comment on a long post.
...
--
Manny
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1117
http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well. The weight of the EV comes into play as well as the weight of my
right foot. As Jim pointed out.
I mentioned mine is 300V and 4000lbs. and a Zilla 1k,
What was the couriour like? I saw one in the album with a zilla, but it
was a LV model. I think the higher voltage allows me to put more power
to the road so more power to disapate also?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A friend is trading in a 96 S10 with 100k miles in very decent
condition. FOr what they are giving him for trade in value I can buy it
from him and drive it until I have money to convert it.
I have read they make very good conversion candidates, is it true?
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
http://ev.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do it.
Quite a few in the EV Album and local EV club members have them too.
But, don't wait until you have enough money to convert or you may never do it.
Instead rip the ICE out ASAP and add EV stuff as your budget allows.
On 7/28/07, Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> A friend is trading in a 96 S10 with 100k miles in very decent
> condition. FOr what they are giving him for trade in value I can buy it
> from him and drive it until I have money to convert it.
>
> I have read they make very good conversion candidates, is it true?
>
>
> --
> Eduardo K. |
--
Manny
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1117
http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim-
Don't give in to the couch raffle players. Take the high road---and keep it
local.
If someone wants to win the motor in a raffle, make them have to show up in
support of the racing EVs.
Fewer players means better chance of me to win!!! Just kidding...I don't
need that motor---you know the one I do need.
It is very honorable and cool that you donate these motors for the larger
cause Jim. And if it's to raise money for NEDRA, that's great.
Another fundraising idea for NEDRA is to do what the folks at SACA (Steam
Auto Club of America) do in raising money for their annual steam car time
trials (1/8th mile drags) in Michigan in September. The coordinator for the
SACA time trials gets 1000's of dollars in financial donations from
businesses and individuals to support the annual event. NOT ONLY does this
fundraising result in a $1000 winning time trial prize for the winner and
lesser amounts for 2nd & 3rd places, but they also raise enough money to PAY
fuel expenses for every individual who brings a steam car that leaves the
starting line. One gentleman brought his vehicle some 2000miles from L.A.
to Michigan and got all of his fuel paid for. This kind of financial
incentive to bring competition vehicles really helps to encourage folks to
participate. NEDRA can learn from that model.
-Myles Twete, Portland Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have actually seen a resurgence or at least a leveling off users that
are on dial up. Ironically when 75% of the people left, it sped up and
when they all went to broadband, some broadband slowed.
Many people have a stought OC3 at work and just surf at home.
I think there will be a market for it for a while, at least until cell
services and wireless Wan are deployed and stop trying to charge per byte.
To avoid the per byte costs and manipulation, I use to call my house
with my phone and get on the net thru my broadband. Sort of a one line
ISP :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Well, two articles out in the same day...one 'OK' one (Portland Tribune)
and this one (AP), a stinker in my opinion. The entire tone of Aaron
Clark's article is quite negative and seems to focus on electrics not
measuring up:
>...they still have a ways to go before matching professional world
record times. The fastest >quarter-mile time by an electric vehicle is
the KillaCycle's 8.16 seconds - that's 2.36 seconds off the
>nitromethane world record for drag bikes
Geesh! The A123 lithium batteries are still in their infancy, there's no
big name sponsor 'money', the bike is a backyard-built affair, it's
still being tweaked and developed, and yet, within a year of its build
it's knocking on nitromethane's door? - and this still isn't good enough
to impress?
Here's one that really got to me:
>.....electric vehicles have even more catching up to do. White
Zombie's best time in a quarter-mile is >11.46 seconds - still 6.4
seconds away from the Top Fuel record.
Who in their right mind, compares a street legal import sedan that is
driven to and from the track (not trailered), to and from the grocery
store, to and from car shows ... and runs low 11s, to a full blown top
fuel funny car? I don't know about everybody else, but it's been a while
since I saw my neighbor drive his top fuel funny car dragster to Safeway
:-) I could see this statement having merit if White Zombie's mission
was to beat a top fuel pure racing machine (a thinking person would use
a similar funny car chassis and not a 35 year old economy sedan), but
come on...it's a small economy car! Most people think a fully street
legal electric car turning 11s is notable. Oh well :-(
On the other hand, maybe I should be happy that my little 'ol electric
Datsun is actually being mentioned in the same sentence as a top fuel
funny car dragster and that he 'did say' that a street legal EV can beat
a Z06 Vette :-)
More negativity from Aaron:
>Not everyone in the gas-powered crowd is convinced electric vehicles
are the next big thing.
And here's more negativity he found to include in his story :
>“I certainly don't see them challenging for professional records in
the near future,” said Graham >Light, at the NHRA. “at this point I
don't see a strong movement toward electric cars.”
Mark this down as a quote....Mr. Grahm will someday eat his words.
Yeah, after all the time I spent talking with Aaron both on the phone
and in person, I am VERY disappointed in his story. What's really bad,
is that this is an AP story, so it's been distributed around the world!
This one stings. Oh well, I guess we need to stay thick-skinned and take
the good with the bad!
I am now looking ahead to John Fialka's Wall Street Journal story, one I
am absolutely certain will be upbeat.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI, Cor -
Are you saying narrower is lower RR, or wider is lower RR, and can you tell
me why you think that?
I understand that the RE92 is relatively low RR . Although I haven't seen
any published data on the RE92, it does seem likely that Toyota would
choose a low RR tire for their Prius.
But I don't see how that demonstrates a relationship between tire width and
rolling resistance.
There seems to be widely held belief that narrower tires means lower RR, but
I haven't seem any data (or even any explanation as to why it might be true)
to support that.
My first, unproven, guess would be that wider tires have lower RR.
This is because a wider tire will deflect ( vertically) less for a given
load and pressure than a narrow tire,
Less tire deflection means less strain energy that is put into the tire
itself during each rotation, and for the same damping factor, less strain
energy means less energy loss in damping.
But, it may be that the tire width also affects the damping factor (
different ratio of sidewall to tread than narrower tires) so this may be an
overly simplified argument.
Phil
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:19:55 -0700
Oh yes, width will definitely impact the rolling resistance.
The Bridgestone Potenza RE92 are the OEM tire specified for the
Prius from years 2001 to 2003, they used the XL variant, which
allows a higher load rating than the standard RE92.
They certainly have a low rolling resistance.
In fact, I switched from the RE92 to HTR-200 on my Prius
and noticed an MPG hit (which is normal when putting new tires
on a car, as the increased amount of rubber means more energy
wasted in friction during compression)
Hth,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
_________________________________________________________________
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07
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--- Begin Message ---
I'd like to introduce myself to the list.
I out about EV conversions when I stumbled upon this video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl9uejKnMFQ
I would like to see more of this on video sites. I really enjoy hearing
people's conversion stories and the sense of liberation they express from
being off of gasoline. After hearing about the EV1 and the Tesla I was
under the impression that electric cars were really complicated. I was
shocked to find out how simple it looks to convert a gas car to electric
that even people with no mechanical experience with cars are doing it. I
love the fact that people are taking personal responsibility and are not
just waiting for the carmakers. Considering that the batteries are the
biggest expense, converting a "glider" may be the only way for many
consumers to avoid the up-front cost of going EV. So even when EV's
eventually become mainstream, I hope these conversions become more
widespread. Regardless of how you may feel regarding the future oil supply,
living as I do in the area with the worst air quality in the country, I know
first-hand about the pollution aspect of cars. That relief may come in the
form of old cars coming back out onto the streets as EV commuters is the
sweetest of ironies.
I myself would very much like to convert my 1971 SAAB 96 when I move back
from Los Angeles to the Boston area in a year or two. It's the car I drove
in high school and it has a lot of sentimental value. That's why I've kept
it in my parents' backyard under a car cover all these years. I am really
jazzed about the possibility of putting it back on the road in a form that
will no longer require that much specialized servicing, and no more
gasoline. I'm crossing my fingers that there will be reasonably-priced
lithium-phosphate batteries avaialble by then. I admire the dedication of
the current breed of EV enthusiasts who are willing to put up with lead acid
batteries but I just don't think I could tolerate them unless I absolutely
had to.
If anyone else has converted a SAAB V4, I'd love to hear your story (where
you put the batteries, whether you used the transmission w/clutch and
freewheel capability). There is a transmission adapter plate available for
it so I know it's been done.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day All
Having spent the morning considering the mechanics of potbox requirements,
I come up with the following:
3-wire applications:
130 degree rotation throttle-body sensor (3-wire potentiometer) really
requires the body pulley off the vehicles' throttle in order to get that
rotation, the angles that an arm go to become somewhat extreme. It would be
possible to use an intermediate arm to double the arc travel to make it
reasonable, but is more work (cost). A spring on the sensor arm would keep
backlash out of the mechanism. The shaft for the throttle body sensor looks
like it needs to be supported in a bush each side of the sensor.
All up I've ended up with if a 3-wire pot is needed, and DIY is the "way to
go", then it is probably the simplest to modify the throttle body from the
donor vehicle.
Alternatively would be to use a wire-wound potentiometer with a removeable
cover, and "hack" the pot to get a tap-out point after 5k-ohms worth of
travel and set it up as below:
2-wire or hacked wire-wound 3-wire applications:
there are any number of suitable high-quality potentiometers that would
lend themselves to be used in 2-wire applications, they vary from 250 to
300 degrees of rotation (typically around 270 degrees), in 20k, 22k and
25k-ohm values. By using the first 60 degrees or so of arc it is simple to
get the 5k-ohm 2-wire potentiometer (technically a rheostat, with 2 wires)
controllers need. In addition there are 10k, 130-degree throttle body
sensors that could be used with a lever across 65 degrees of arc. Bushes
(plain bearings) are readily available to support the outer end of the pot
shaft, or both ends of a shaft for a throttle body sensor.
So now to the kit parts:
So the theory goes: it would be simple to come up with a kit of three body
plates that have enough holes to be able to be assembled as:
3/8" hole to mount a 'pot' with a 5/16" hole in line with it to take a bush
with a 1/4" hole in it, or
15.1mm throttle-body sensor (middle plate) with 8mm bushes in the front and
rear plates and
enough holes to mount one or more limit switches for zero throttle and/or
full throttle.
In addition a lever arm that is able to be formed up with the 1/4" or 8mm
shaft clamp, long enough to get the cable travel length across many vehicles.
If a throttle body sensor is used, an 8mm shaft with a flat on it would
also be needed, along with two bushes.
To complete the kit, cable sheath clamp, spring/s, 4mm or similar threaded
spacers and a cover plate.
The kit could be assembled left or right hand, with the control lever
between the plates or on the end of the shaft beyond the face plate. Limit
switches where required. Cable sheath attachment and return springs holes
built in. For the little extra cost to get it, done in stainless steel.
All comments welcome
Regards
[Technik] James
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Actually I was going to ask if any one had any objections to be copying posts
from the here to the forum. I didn't bother to ask since I'm such a noob, I
didn't know how people might respond.
So, would anyone have any objections to me copying emails over to the forum?
Brian
>Imagine, if you will,
>that a human read the EVDL every day, deleted the spam, reformatted the
>HTML posts so they were readable, changed the Subject lines to a
>consistent format for fast searching, edited out mindless repetition,
>and standardized the way data is presented. The result was posted on a
>website daily, and also archived and indexed so you could easily look up
>old posts or view all the posts in a particular thread together.
>But here's the problem. Nobody wants to do the work. They want to
>automate the above process, with some software package (that they didn't
>write, either). The software isn't smart enough to do any of the above
>things "right", so it winds up doing a half-assed job of it, creating
>more problems than it solves. It looks prettier, but works worse.
> Still bummed I wasn't worthy of an invite though,
Like Groucho Marx said, "I wouldn't join any club that would have me as
a member."
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Wow, the vans sold for $3,700. What a screamin' deal for two vans worth of EV
stuff.
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John, I think the real problem here is a lack of education. You need to have
compassion for people who are un educated and ignorant. You need to first
think about this and realize that these people just really need a hug. You
have to realize that Graham Light of the NHRA most likely received his
education in the US. We are famous for having the most generator on the
wheel type people in the world. Face it, our educational system sucks when
it comes to physics and obviously Graham Light received his education here.
He obviously has never heard of the concept of energy efficiency. He
obviously does not know the energy consumption of a Funny Car. "One 4.73
second quarter mile run consumes 15 gallons of fuel at about $15/gallon (or
more). That is a fuel efficiency of 0.016 miles per gallon. If these were on
the street, the EPA would be furious."
http://www.jdmuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22185 He also does not
know that the most fuel efficient gas motors ever built were near 30%. He
does not have a clue what 80% and 90% efficiencies will do to his sport. He
should be afraid, very afraid!. Since he is obviously lost in some
delusional world of non physics and emotional realities I doubt he will ever
wake up to the future until they fire his sorry ignorant ass. Of course this
is one of my non bias assessments of reality :-)
Roderick
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
PS: I will comment on the author's ignorance latter, Aaron obviously didn't
understand what it meant for the Kilocycle to do a sixty foot time better
that ANY vehicle had ever done on the PIR track. This reality also escaped
the delusional mind of Graham Light.
----- Original Message ----- ;
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered
records
Hello to All,
Well, two articles out in the same day...one 'OK' one (Portland Tribune)
and this one (AP), a stinker in my opinion. The entire tone of Aaron
Clark's article is quite negative and seems to focus on electrics not
measuring up:
>...they still have a ways to go before matching professional world
record times. The fastest >quarter-mile time by an electric vehicle is
the KillaCycle's 8.16 seconds - that's 2.36 seconds off the
>nitromethane world record for drag bikes
Geesh! The A123 lithium batteries are still in their infancy, there's no
big name sponsor 'money', the bike is a backyard-built affair, it's
still being tweaked and developed, and yet, within a year of its build
it's knocking on nitromethane's door? - and this still isn't good enough
to impress?
Here's one that really got to me:
>.....electric vehicles have even more catching up to do. White
Zombie's best time in a quarter-mile is >11.46 seconds - still 6.4
seconds away from the Top Fuel record.
Who in their right mind, compares a street legal import sedan that is
driven to and from the track (not trailered), to and from the grocery
store, to and from car shows ... and runs low 11s, to a full blown top
fuel funny car? I don't know about everybody else, but it's been a while
since I saw my neighbor drive his top fuel funny car dragster to Safeway
:-) I could see this statement having merit if White Zombie's mission
was to beat a top fuel pure racing machine (a thinking person would use
a similar funny car chassis and not a 35 year old economy sedan), but
come on...it's a small economy car! Most people think a fully street
legal electric car turning 11s is notable. Oh well :-(
On the other hand, maybe I should be happy that my little 'ol electric
Datsun is actually being mentioned in the same sentence as a top fuel
funny car dragster and that he 'did say' that a street legal EV can beat
a Z06 Vette :-)
More negativity from Aaron:
>Not everyone in the gas-powered crowd is convinced electric vehicles
are the next big thing.
And here's more negativity he found to include in his story :
>“I certainly don't see them challenging for professional records in
the near future,” said Graham >Light, at the NHRA. “at this point I
don't see a strong movement toward electric cars.”
Mark this down as a quote....Mr. Grahm will someday eat his words.
Yeah, after all the time I spent talking with Aaron both on the phone
and in person, I am VERY disappointed in his story. What's really bad,
is that this is an AP story, so it's been distributed around the world!
This one stings. Oh well, I guess we need to stay thick-skinned and take
the good with the bad!
I am now looking ahead to John Fialka's Wall Street Journal story, one I
am absolutely certain will be upbeat.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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6:01 PM
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If a tire is good for 80,000 miles, and the car drives 12,000 miles per year,
then the tire will have to live for a little more than 6 years. However, if the
tire is 6 years old already, then the tire is pretty much trash before it ever
gets on the wheel. Even if it has a few miles left in it, the retailer can not
sell it like that.
Brian
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ______________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and
> hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/
>
>
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Phil,
The reason I want a narrow tire is that a narrower tire will usually have a
lower rolling resistance. This assumes that the tire it's being compared to is
made of the same rubber compound and has the same tread. I will take a look at
the tires you listed. Since they are listed as low resistance, they probably
have a lower rolling resistance.
Brian
>Brian
>
>
Brian - do you know the rolling resistance factor for RE92's ? I don't
think I've ever seen them in a chart of low rolling resistance tires.
If you look at the GreenSeal paper, two of the lowest tires ( the
Bridgestone B381's and the Sumitomo HTR 200's are available in stock at
TireRack in 14 inch sizes - although not as narrow as the RE92 you are
looking at.
Why do you want the narrowest tire? Do you need a tire that small to fit
in your wheel well?
If not, it is more important to have a low rolling resistance tire. This
depends on the material and construction of the tire, not its width.
Phil Marino
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
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Shawn, much congratulations on your new record! I would just like to add
one comment. In your enthusiasm you wrote: "The 12.08 was backed up with two
runs of 12.15 @ 103 MPH. Next stop 240 volts !!! We may just skip the 11's
and head straight for the 10's. Probably not but it sure sounds good."
Just so the newbees on the list know, in our daily life a second may seem
like a very short time but on a drag strip it is an eternity. The difference
between 11 second ETs and 10 second ETs is the difference between being
twenty years old and being sixty. That analogy may give some of you a clue
:-)\
Roderick
Roderick Wilde
Vintage Golf Cart Parts
Specializing in Parts for Harley and many other mature carts
www.vintagegolfcartparts.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: 360-385-4868
P.O. Box 221
Port Townsend, WA 98368
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: AGNS takes NEDRA record # 6
The weather was touch and go at Quaker City Raceway in Salem, OH today but
the sun finally won out as Denis Stanislaw and AGNS captured NEDRA record
# 6 in the MT-D class. We set up with 14 DEKA's (168 volts) and set our
sites on the 12.49 record set back in 2004. We left the track with a best
run of 12.08 @ 102.91 in the semi final round of eliminations. We had
dialed a 12.07 and beat one of the regulars at the the track and for a
brief moment we thought Denis had made it all the way to the finals.
Unfortunately he was disqualified after the run for going past the stage
lights during his burnout. sounds good.The 12.08 was backed up with two
runs of 12.15 @ 103 MPH. Next stop 240 volts !!! We may just skip the 11's
and head straight for the 10's. Probably not but it sure
Shawn Lawless
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
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It's hard to believe that (even under lab conditions) Yellow Tops could last
11 years. I'd love to learn how he pulls this off, especially in an EV. For
most of us, they don't last 1/2 that long even under less strenuous service,
such as in a camper.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: Karmann Ghia Design - System voltage
> I actually got a ride in JB's car last year coming
> back from Joliet. EVen with 11 year old batteries and
> four adults crammed in this car still had pep! This
> car is a perfect example of how to do it right! JB
> wanted me to look at his motor since I was there 8^)
> I told him it looked like it was just installed! It
> was in absolutely beautiful condition. Anyway I've
> been meaning to chime in here as it is a great vehicle
> to draw from being I've had a ride in it 8^)
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
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