EV Digest 7087
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: CNN Money: Have you driven a Fjord lately?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Another NHRA anomaly
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Think/Stirling/Big Brother/Public Utilities
by Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Could higher pack voltage be stepped down for Curtis input?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: What happened to my post to John Wayland????????????????
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Is GM Playing Games with the Volt?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: With barely a sound, electric dragsters aim for gas-powered records
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: What happened to my post to John Wayland????????????????
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: What happened to my post to John Wayland????????????????
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) What exactly happened? (Battricide)
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: NEDRA board help on 3 wheeled vehicles
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: What happened to my post to John Wayland????????????????
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: NEDRA board help on 3 wheeled vehicles
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: What exactly happened? (Battricide)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: AGM battery emissions
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
David> One minor but interesting point I noticed - Think seems to have
David> lost its bang (!). It used to be "Th!nk." Has anybody seen it?
David> ;-)
It's still on their website: http://www.think.no/
Skip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if any of these satellite tv and internet companies offer phone
service too. Or does satellite technology make cell phones viable for people
who live in the country already? Anyway, this is where cable modems really
shine and hopefully a satellite modem could do the same thing. When our house
had dial-up, the only reason we had a land line at all was for the computer. We
were already using cell phones. When we switched to cable, we disconnected the
land line and saved ourselves that $25 per month. We also got rid of AOL, so we
did not have to worry about that $25 a month anymore. We did have to upgrade
our cell phone service, so there was some additional cost involved, but between
the AOL charges and the Qwest charges, our COX cable bill was basically
covered. Is a scenario like this possible with Satellite Internet?
Brian
---- Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
=============
> I have a dial-up connection that normally
> connects as a fast 28.8 speed. This is the best that I can get since I live
> out
> in the country where cable and DSL is not available.
I don't want to be a spammer but,
Those of you caught in this situation may wish to consider....
www.wildblue.com
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nope -- VOIP cannot be used on any of the satellite internet services
that I've checked out -- to high a latency due to going up to
geosynchronous orbit and back. Plus, I think they are concerned about
bandwidth -- because if you try to use VOIP, they will shut down your
service. I have wildblue, and it is great -- I can work from home
several days a week instead of commuting. I still have to have a
landline for phone (cell phones don't work at my house)
BUT.... we are getting WAY off topic here.
On 7/30/07, Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wonder if any of these satellite tv and internet companies offer phone
> service too. Or does satellite technology make cell phones viable for people
> who live in the country already? Anyway, this is where cable modems really
> shine and hopefully a satellite modem could do the same thing. When our house
> had dial-up, the only reason we had a land line at all was for the computer.
> We were already using cell phones. When we switched to cable, we disconnected
> the land line and saved ourselves that $25 per month. We also got rid of AOL,
> so we did not have to worry about that $25 a month anymore. We did have to
> upgrade our cell phone service, so there was some additional cost involved,
> but between the AOL charges and the Qwest charges, our COX cable bill was
> basically covered. Is a scenario like this possible with Satellite Internet?
>
> Brian
>
>
> ---- Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> =============
>
>
> > I have a dial-up connection that normally
> > connects as a fast 28.8 speed. This is the best that I can get since I
> > live out
> > in the country where cable and DSL is not available.
>
>
> I don't want to be a spammer but,
>
> Those of you caught in this situation may wish to consider....
>
> www.wildblue.com
>
>
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn and All,
I've been meaning to post about this, but...back on June 3rd we took the
RX-7 to Bandimere Speedway for the Import Street Tuner Mayhem. Tech
inspection was fun, as the guy hadn't seen an eelectric before, and neither
had the other inspector that he called over to help him! I just did the
"this car has been here before and has the kill switch on the back, etc.,
See?", and was fine. After a couple of time only runs we ended up bracket
racing in the Super Modified class (14.00-16.99). I made it through the
first round when the other guy red-lighted. Unfortunately, I got a little
anxious in the second round and red-lighted myself. The car is very
traction limited with street tires, so I'm going on the last yellow instead
of the green! The young import guys were all over the car while charging in
the pits, and we got to hang next to a kid's 9 second Honda that some
friends of the family were running. Anyway, if we had continued through the
day and actually won something, I wonder if any losers would protest having
to race eelectrics, and this NHRA rule would have come up? I hope someone
checks into this...
Suck Amps,
BB
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:07:26 EDT
>
>In a message dated 7/30/2007 9:34:32 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>> Date:7/30/2007 9:34:32 AM US Mountain Standard Time
>> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> I found this post on the NHRA website from 1998.
>>
>> E.T. Brackets
>> The biggest news in E.T. Bracket racing is the development of rules to
>> accommodate electric-powered vehicles. Current plans are for the
>> electric cars to run in E.T. Brackets only, in their own eliminator
>> (similar to E.T. Snowmobile). Said NHRA Western Region Tech Director
>> Jerry Valentine, "It may be hard for some to believe, but we have these
>> cars showing up at NHRA member facilities ready to go racing. The
>> chassis are built according to NHRA guidelines, but we have nothing
>> that relates to a vehicle powered by something other than an
>> internal-combustion engine. So I've worked with several electric-car
>> organizations to come up with a basic set of rules that establish
>> minimum standards for the proper operation of electric-powered vehicles
>> and are simple for the technical inspector to enforce."
>>
>>
>> According to this, electric vehicles can't run in the same eliminator
>> class as other ICE cars or bikes of the same body/chassis style but
>> must run against each other only for purposes of elimination.
>>
>> Has this been changed or are we out of luck wanting to run bike
>> eliminator with AGNS, Pro Eliminator with OJ, or Street Eliminator with
>> the Electropolitan?
>>
>> Shawn Lawless
>>
>If so NHRA has not been enforceing this because I have raced in the NHRA
>summit points series for now my 5th year.This includes 4 division 7 series
>finals
>not including this year which I am again qualified and will be attending with
>my bracket currenteliminator.Will I now be forced to repay the prize money I
>have made in the past 5 years? Dennis Berube
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--- Begin Message ---
So I read the Think piece that everyone is talking about. Am
tantalized by the idea of decentralized Stirling power generators in
everyone's hybrids parked out in the driveway.
And then, I wonder about the 1984 scenario where Big Brother sucks
all the juice out of our grid feeding hybrids. What a great way to
disable the population!
Talk about conspiracy theories!
I can't help it, I live near Stephen King. What a great plot for a
sci fi thriller!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everybody:
> GM has a burden that VW and other auto manufacturers do not... the UAW.
Well, that is not true. Volkswagen has to deal with the 'IG Metall', one
of the most powerful unions in the world. And, let's not forget: German
workers work about 38 1/2 hours a week, have at least 18-20 days of paid
vacation and , more or less, unlimited sick days. My cousin works at VW
(quality control), he makes 20 Euros an hour (currently about 23 US$). So
- how do THEY pull it off? In a country that charges about 5 Bucks/Gallon
of gas?
While the transition may be painful, just because America needs 'em
doesn't necessarily mean we should let 'em do whatever the heck they want,
maybe even use tax dollars to delay the inevitable downfall.
America has, like a lot of western countries, lost a lot of big
manufacturing businesses over the last two decades. The only way we and
others have, is to use our (still) leading knowledge of advanced
technologies. If GM chooses to ignore that advantage and tries to play it
the old fashioned way, they will go down. How long do you think they will
be able to sell their cheapo trucks in Russia or China until those folks
down there catch up?
GM needs the Volt. It might be their last chance.
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Satelite tv and internet has a delay of about a half second between
communications to a from the satellite because they are so high up.
It doesn't work well ffor telephone
Telephone relay satelittes are in low earth orbit so there is no delay
really but these satellite tv and internet ones are in geosynchronous
orbit which is MUCH higher up and there is a detectable transmission
dealy.
(You an see it on news broadcasts relayed by satellite if the
correspondent and the news desk are talking to each other.
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 3:02 pm, Brian Jackson wrote:
I wonder if any of these satellite tv and internet companies offer
phone service too. Or does satellite technology make cell phones viable
for people who live in the country already? Anyway, this is where cable
modems really shine and hopefully a satellite modem could do the same
thing. When our house had dial-up, the only reason we had a land line
at all was for the computer. We were already using cell phones. When we
switched to cable, we disconnected the land line and saved ourselves
that $25 per month. We also got rid of AOL, so we did not have to worry
about that $25 a month anymore. We did have to upgrade our cell phone
service, so there was some additional cost involved, but between the
AOL charges and the Qwest charges, our COX cable bill was basically
covered. Is a scenario like this possible with Satellite Internet?
Brian
---- Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
=============
I have a dial-up connection that normally
connects as a fast 28.8 speed. This is the best that I can get since
I live out
in the country where cable and DSL is not available.
I don't want to be a spammer but,
Those of you caught in this situation may wish to consider....
www.wildblue.com
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
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* This post contains a forbidden message format *
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--- Begin Message ---
I've been trying to send this all day.
Jim L
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
--- Begin Message ---
This is the third post.
Jim
In a message dated 7/29/2007 3:17:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jim, it's obvious you've been out of the loop too long (we miss you,
too). It's also obvious you don't go to my readily available web page
where everything about White Zombie is an open book anyone can look at.
If you had, and if you read my many, many posts, you may not have said
the above in regards to my car being 'gutted' and 'lightened'. It's the
exact opposite. I take pride in the fact that I 'have not' gutted the
car or done lightening tricks to the body, so you telling everyone it's
a gutted and lightened car is misinformation.
___________________________________
John, you're right I have been away from the smell of burning rubber for a
while but I try to stay informed when I can.
I ASS-umed you had done all of the lightening tricks because of your
attention to detail, I do remember that you had one of the nicest/cleanest
conversions that I've seen.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
The car's body has not been lightened even one ounce over stock...it has the
factory steel bumpers, all the original steel bodywork, all the original
glass, and it even has an after market glass and steel sunroof that adds
weight over stock, too.
_______________________________________________
I do remember you researched all the manufactures sites to find the lightest
production car built (that's a good thing)
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxxx
>VS a "street heavy" radio, heater, air cond, seats for four also an
import and with
>a little tweaking, chip, turbo, trash can exhaust and all real glass
windows.
>....pump gas burning smog causing import that will run low 10 and
>high 9 sec in the quarter mile will be about 10 to 15 car lengths ahead at
>the end of the quarter mile (you do the math) and then put 3 people in
the car
>and drive to Vegas in comfort for lunch, I know, those sob's drive by my
>house every day, with their foot in it..........Those are apples VS
apples.
>
Wow Jim, more misinformation! Again, you need to get out more :-)
_______________________________________________
I would like to get out more, but they just won't let me
out....................I see someone has already posted a friend that has a 10
sec Mazda daily
driver......I knew they existed I'm not senile after all.
You can also find a great article in the September 2007 issue of Hot Rod
about an e-bay/junkyard, backyard, tractor parts, do it your self Mustang
daily
driver that runs in the 10s at a cost of 12-15k.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx
Without gutting my car and doing the lightening tricks you claim I've
done to the body, with time to learn how to adjust the power we had on
July 14th with the 175 lb., 1400 amp lithium pack, everyone there (you
were not) knows the car can run 10s just the way it is, and then we'd be
right in the game with the truly gutted and major-modified imports you
speak of, even though White Zombie is not at all set up the same way.
______________________________________________
"everyone knows your car will run 10's" what, are they all mind readers
maybe they THINK your car can run in the 10's but until it does it's still a
mid
11sec car. Talking about it does not make it go quicker. Plus your motors on
a stick might get a little "well done" when you start and push them a little
harder, lots of things can happen between 11.40's and 10.99 that is a big
step in the real world of drag racing.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
if lithiums do come our way, one of the first mods to the
car will be a back seat reinstalled and a signature Wayland sound system!
________________________________________________
Please don't torture with me with the bump bump bump electronic noise maker,
my old ears can't take it, that,s why I went to electric racing, to get away
from unwanted noise.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>...talk is cheap, bring it to the race track.
Tim and I do, every chance we get! Perhaps you should get off the couch
and take your own advice? We'd love to have you back.
_______________________________________________
If I can get my old bones moving you could see me at a track in AZ real soon
trying to tell Dennis what to do with his new S10 (like he would listen to
me, I've only been around race vehicles for 45years)
Just an old racer watching you kids have fun.
Jim Ludiker................the second quickest EV in the world (behind
Dennis) using "old" lead acid technology, take a look at my seven year old car
in
the photo section.
PS If I get one of them three wheeled scooter things could I have some of
your old lion batteries so I could beat EVeryone else? But please, NO sound.
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
--- End Message ---
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim, If you think bump bump bump in your ears is bad, you should try
riding in the Zombie after the front tires were dragged for 550 ft with the
motors still turning 6000 rpm ;-) Bump Bump Bump in your spine ain't no fun
either ;-P It would go faster with the noise maker. Maybe he could play some
galloping horse sounds when he pulls up to the line to race the gassers :-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
if lithiums do come our way, one of the first mods to the
car will be a back seat reinstalled and a signature Wayland sound system!
________________________________________________
Please don't torture with me with the bump bump bump electronic noise maker,
my old ears can't take it, that,s why I went to electric racing, to get away
from unwanted noise.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What you'd need is a DC-DC converter. A very powerful converter, in fact
at least as powerful as your motor controller.
Since a motor controller is basically a DC-DC converter, what you would
need is basically a motor controller (plus a huge inductor) to feed your
curtis motor controller.
It would be simpler, cheaper, and more efficient to just replaced the
Curtis with a different controller that can work with a 204V battery pack.
Either that or use different batteries that add up to 144V or less.
> A single string of 17 group 34 batts (like Optima YTs)
> could fit into my Geo Metro EV for 204 volts nominal.
>
> Is there any way to step down that pack voltage to
> around 150-160 volts for input into the existing
> Curtis 1231 controller (rated 144v nominal max)?
>
> The Geo EV's original converter did such a nice job
> with the controller/heatsink/cooling fan installation,
> that i can't bear the thought of ripping that all out
> even if it meant replacing it with a zilla.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Plus your motors on
> a stick might get a little "well done" when you
> start and push them a little
> harder, lots of things can happen between 11.40's
> and 10.99 that is a big
> step in the real world of drag racing.
Hey Now!
You just leave my motors on a stick out of this! 8^P
They've been doing just fine, thank you very much! 8^)
In fact, they did just hammer out an increase of about
a 1/2 second increase from 11.96 to 11.47 without
puking 8^o'',
',
I'm pretty sure I can "will" them to the 10's LMAO!
Anyway you boys go argue about EVerything else but
leave my Motor-Kabob off the BBQ! Poor little guys
never did nothing to you, so stash the negative vibes
and no one gets hurt LMAO ;^)
John and Tim don't need any help! 8^P
Jim Husted
Motor-on-a-stick Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,
photos & more.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He way can do it is the way geroge washington did it.
Put tariffs on low wage intrusive foreign competitros in order to keep
essential industries in the us.
Washington did it to prevent britain from taking over our industires.
If it was good enough for washington its good enough for us.
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 4:43 pm, Michaela Merz wrote:
Hello everybody:
GM has a burden that VW and other auto manufacturers do not... the
UAW.
Well, that is not true. Volkswagen has to deal with the 'IG Metall',
one
of the most powerful unions in the world. And, let's not forget: German
workers work about 38 1/2 hours a week, have at least 18-20 days of
paid
vacation and , more or less, unlimited sick days. My cousin works at VW
(quality control), he makes 20 Euros an hour (currently about 23 US$).
So
- how do THEY pull it off? In a country that charges about 5
Bucks/Gallon
of gas?
While the transition may be painful, just because America needs 'em
doesn't necessarily mean we should let 'em do whatever the heck they
want,
maybe even use tax dollars to delay the inevitable downfall.
America has, like a lot of western countries, lost a lot of big
manufacturing businesses over the last two decades. The only way we and
others have, is to use our (still) leading knowledge of advanced
technologies. If GM chooses to ignore that advantage and tries to play
it
the old fashioned way, they will go down. How long do you think they
will
be able to sell their cheapo trucks in Russia or China until those
folks
down there catch up?
GM needs the Volt. It might be their last chance.
mm.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, it is on, but, you need to turn your HTML OFF!!!
In a message dated 7/30/2007 2:33:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hello is this thing on????????????
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also remembe r foreign manufactures don't have to pay for workers
healthcare ebcuaase they have a universal healthcare systems which
provides healthcare with the elast overhead. And thus lowest cost.
America has a for profit healthcare system was not surprisingly has
produced the most expensive health care in the world. Not surprising
since profits are a percentage of charges.
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 4:43 pm, Michaela Merz wrote:
Hello everybody:
GM has a burden that VW and other auto manufacturers do not... the
UAW.
Well, that is not true. Volkswagen has to deal with the 'IG Metall',
one
of the most powerful unions in the world. And, let's not forget: German
workers work about 38 1/2 hours a week, have at least 18-20 days of
paid
vacation and , more or less, unlimited sick days. My cousin works at VW
(quality control), he makes 20 Euros an hour (currently about 23 US$).
So
- how do THEY pull it off? In a country that charges about 5
Bucks/Gallon
of gas?
While the transition may be painful, just because America needs 'em
doesn't necessarily mean we should let 'em do whatever the heck they
want,
maybe even use tax dollars to delay the inevitable downfall.
America has, like a lot of western countries, lost a lot of big
manufacturing businesses over the last two decades. The only way we and
others have, is to use our (still) leading knowledge of advanced
technologies. If GM chooses to ignore that advantage and tries to play
it
the old fashioned way, they will go down. How long do you think they
will
be able to sell their cheapo trucks in Russia or China until those
folks
down there catch up?
GM needs the Volt. It might be their last chance.
mm.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 7/30/2007 5:33:25 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm pretty sure I can "will" them to the 10's LMAO!
Anyway you boys go argue about EVerything else but
leave my Motor-Kabob off the BBQ! Poor little guys
never did nothing to you, so stash the negative vibes
and no one gets hurt LMAO ;^)
John and Tim don't need any help! 8^P
____________________________________________
You might want to baste those kabobs with a little extra sauce so they're
not to well done at the end of the track.
good luck guys, kick ice butt.
Jim............the old guy
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 30, 2007, at 12:42 AM, Brian Jackson wrote:
Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I have been successfully operating with
the understanding that a narrower tire will give a smaller contact
patch and therefore decrease rolling resistance for so long that I
have a hard time believing that contact patch is dependent only on
tire pressure and vehicle mass.
Well, consider this...
What tire size do the super high millage cars run now days? It seems
that many of them are 65 series tires (Prius and Insight come to
mind.) Now with open tires I'd guess the narrower the better - but
that could be a wind resistance thing.
Paul Gooch
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 7/30/2007 5:54:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes, it is on, but, you need to turn your HTML OFF!!!
___________________________
Yes, I just now figured out how to do that..........I build speed not
computers I can barely turn this thing on and off. OFF????? don't yell
I'm
not hard of hearing just computer stupid.
Jim L................Old retired racer...................maybe I should come
out of retirement.......hhmmmmmmm
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim L................Old retired
racer...................maybe I should
come
out of retirement.......hhmmmmmmm
Jim,
The more the merrier! Come out of retirement, I would
like to see you kick some ICE butt!
The more EV's the better!
Rod
--- End Message ---
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I made my own plasma today.
I was driving home...I did my usual 65 mph stint on the freeway for 12 miles
and then slowed to about 50 mph on the local road. The last mile or so at 65
mph, I smelled something so I eased up on the pedal. I smelled it again when
I accelerated from a stop light to 50 mph so I detoured to a 25 mph road
that would get me home the last 2 miles.
I accelerated to 25 mph from a stop sign and heard a zzzZZZZZTT- POW! and I
saw a brief, white puff of smoke and had a total loss of power. I hit the
hazards and slewed into a parking lot. I popped the engine lid and found an
8v floodie with the positive lug blown clean away and a shattered case up
top. Melted lead spray was on the inside of the engine lid, but no acid
spray even though the caps were blown off. The interconnecting cable was
HOT. Pretty dramatic.
Here's a little history: This battery had a loose cable a few weeks back.
The negative lug melted down a little but there was still a lot of usable
material. It wasn't bad so I tightened it down. The postive lug is the one
that blew apart. I routinely check the water levels and voltage levels once
a month. There was nothing out of the ordinary. The Zivan charger keeps
things pretty balanced and I've only had to add water once since March.
My theories are:
1. I overloaded the battery by pulling 80-300 amps (hills) doing 65 mph on a
hot summer's day. A plate warped and shorted out against another plate.
2. I overheated the battery and the lead lug simply boiled away.
3. I overloaded the battery and caused a cell reversal. (on a 128v pack, I
never pull below 115 volts for 1.8 vpc so I don't consider this likely)
I had a spare battery at home and these are still under warranty so I'm
already back on the road. I just want to know what I did wrong so I don't do
it again. Please post your theories.
Rich "plasma-wannabe" Acuti
Maryland
_________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 30, 2007, at 7:37 AM, keith vansickle wrote:
Shawn and NEDRA,
This was my question a month or so ago. Why do we
(electric vehicle builders) need to follow NHRA rules.
Certianly, if we are racing against infernal
combustion powered vehicles we may use their rules but
if we are racing agains other electrics why not create
our own classes. 1,2,3,4,5,6,etc wheels and motors. we
are developing a completely new sport/activity. why
limit ourselves to coping rules that are designed for
a different animal.
The whole point of NEDRA was to get electric vehicle racing accepted
and into the NHRA rules. When NEDRA started there was no way to race
an EV under NHRA because the rules required an internal combustion
engine. They created NEDRA to provide EV racing rules and to become a
part of the mainstream racing establishment.
Hey, I have my disappointments too. Once upon a time I could have
raced my EV buggy with only a simple roll loop and proper seat belts.
If I wanted to do that now I would have to install a 5 point roll bar
and full harness including arm restraints (some of the requirements
under NHRA for "VW based kit cars".) Yes, VW based kit cars tend to
be dangerous on the track - something about the frame running down
the center = guard rail BAD :-) Still, it hasn't killed me in 15
years (not even once, as Rod would say.)
Paul "neon" Gooch
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In a message dated 7/30/2007 6:14:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jim,
The more the merrier! Come out of retirement, I would
like to see you kick some ICE butt!
The more EV's the better!
Rod
_______________________
No, I think for now I'll wait til Dennis gets his S10 ready and go with him
to the track maybe he will let me take a ride......but I'd have to be nice to
him for that. Oh well.
Jim
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--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 7/30/2007 6:24:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hey, I have my disappointments too. Once upon a time I could have
raced my EV buggy with only a simple roll loop and proper seat belts.
If I wanted to do that now I would have to install a 5 point roll bar
and full harness including arm restraints (some of the requirements
under NHRA for "VW based kit cars".) Yes, VW based kit cars tend to
be dangerous on the track - something about the frame running down
the center = guard rail BAD :-) Still, it hasn't killed me in 15
years (not even once, as Rod would say.)
Paul "neon" Gooch
________________________________
Yes that's true, who needs insurance or seat belts...........they are only
necessary if you crash and flip it over.
I got off a bike at about 170mph at the Bonneville salt flats about 25 years
ago, thank god for safety gear it works
Jim
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Richard,
Installing new batteries or new links, tighten to 75 inch lbs if it's a
battery clamp. Stud type connections are rated from 60 to 75 inch lbs to
105 inch lbs., but I never take the studs over 75 inch lbs.
Now drive five miles and re-torque again. You will find you will loss about
5 inch lbs on the initial run. Then check the it again at 10 miles where
some will loss about 1 to 2 inch lbs. Again in 20 miles and they should
stable out.
What happens is that the surface of the lead is not a true mirror surface
where there may be surface scratches that melt back or we call shrink back.
I use a solid brass battery clamp that has grooves in to the inside surface.
This gives more surface area in the contact area. Also I install the
battery clamp pressing down on the base of the offset pad if you have one,
which gives more contact area.
I use a battery post that has a stud coming out the top, but I do not use
this stud to connect a link to. But I do install a stainless steel washers,
lock washer and nut and torque this stud to 75 inch lbs after the battery
clamp is torque first.
This tightening of the stud, puts internal pressure of the lead post against
the inside of the battery clamp and keeps the top of the post from
mushrooming out the top of the battery clamp. The last time, I t initial
torque the battery clamps, was in 2005 and they are all between 70 to 75
inch lbs.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 7:21 PM
Subject: What exactly happened? (Battricide)
> I made my own plasma today.
>
> I was driving home...I did my usual 65 mph stint on the freeway for 12
> miles
> and then slowed to about 50 mph on the local road. The last mile or so at
> 65
> mph, I smelled something so I eased up on the pedal. I smelled it again
> when
> I accelerated from a stop light to 50 mph so I detoured to a 25 mph road
> that would get me home the last 2 miles.
>
> I accelerated to 25 mph from a stop sign and heard a zzzZZZZZTT- POW! and
> I
> saw a brief, white puff of smoke and had a total loss of power. I hit the
> hazards and slewed into a parking lot. I popped the engine lid and found
> an
> 8v floodie with the positive lug blown clean away and a shattered case up
> top. Melted lead spray was on the inside of the engine lid, but no acid
> spray even though the caps were blown off. The interconnecting cable was
> HOT. Pretty dramatic.
>
> Here's a little history: This battery had a loose cable a few weeks back.
> The negative lug melted down a little but there was still a lot of usable
> material. It wasn't bad so I tightened it down. The postive lug is the one
> that blew apart. I routinely check the water levels and voltage levels
> once
> a month. There was nothing out of the ordinary. The Zivan charger keeps
> things pretty balanced and I've only had to add water once since March.
>
> My theories are:
>
> 1. I overloaded the battery by pulling 80-300 amps (hills) doing 65 mph on
> a
> hot summer's day. A plate warped and shorted out against another plate.
> 2. I overheated the battery and the lead lug simply boiled away.
> 3. I overloaded the battery and caused a cell reversal. (on a 128v pack, I
> never pull below 115 volts for 1.8 vpc so I don't consider this likely)
>
> I had a spare battery at home and these are still under warranty so I'm
> already back on the road. I just want to know what I did wrong so I don't
> do
> it again. Please post your theories.
>
> Rich "plasma-wannabe" Acuti
> Maryland
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
>
>
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--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As you are aware, your AGMs shouldn't emit any odour
> when driving or charging. When driving, do you
> notice the odour very soon into your trip, or does
> it only become apparent after you've driven a fair
> distance?
The odor would intensify from a baseline after perhaps
10 minutes of driving. Usually the dashboard fan is
run on a high setting to push air thru the cabin in an
effort to keep the odor at bay.
> The odour I would get if I drew the pack down
> far enough would dissipate quickly enough when
> the load was removed that it was not evident at all
> the following morning after charging
> overnight in a relatively sealed garage.
Was it more of a tangy or rotten egg smell? My batts
are the former and the odor is stronger under load,
dissipates when the load is removed, but remains at a
lower intensity even if the batteries sit idle for a
day or more after recharging.
> You have the chargers mounted where you can verify
> that each and every one has finished sucessfully
> before you drive away? Have you verified
> the outputs to confirm that each one is bringing its
> battery to the required voltage?
Yes to both of these, and a Paktrakr has been onboard
since May so the individual battery voltages are
viewable in real-time.
> It is hard to believe that a 3A charger could
> overcharge a 100Ah battery to the point of venting,
> expecially if you aren't leaving them running
> for extended periods.
I agree with this.
When I installed the Paktrakr in May, it revealed 3
batts with voltages that sagged more then the rest.
That was expected because range had dropped off
sharply after a couple of trips getting too far out
and going into turtle mode before reaching safety. So
i suspect these 3 batts had suffered cell reversals.
Those 3 batts were replaced with new ones. At the same
time, all the batteries were repositioned in the
battery boxes so that they were all easily accessible.
> however, if you weren't over-charging they shouldn't
be venting.
When I was installing one of the newer replacements, I
noticed it was stinky just handling it. That was prior
to any charge, discharge, or connection to the pack.
This makes me think that the so-called "sealing
valves" in these batteries are really nothing of the
sort. They are simply leaky.
With subsequent trips, other old batts have become the
weak ones. When they've tumbled below 9.5 volts after
too few miles on a trip, they've been replaced.
So as it stands now, 5 of the AGMs installed in
October remain in the EV.
And 6 new replacements have been installed since the
Paktrakr came online.
Plus, 1 Deka Dominator 8G31 gel was installed late
last week. Simply to see if it would be less stinky.
Of course its respective Soneil charger doesn't have
an ideal charge curve for it, but its all i have at
the moment.
So far it seems the gel might be less stinky (or not
stinky at all) then the AGMs. It is right behind the
driver's seat in its own Quickcable polypropylene
battery box. And that makes it easier to tell if it is
stinky and not confuse it with the smelly AGMs.
So that makes for a total of 12 batts. Six are
upright, six on their sides.
> Do you have any idea how many Ah you typically
> remove from the batteries between charges?
No, I could only estimate from how much is pulled from
the wall during charging. No ah or wh meter onboard
yet.
> I'm wondering if the problem here isn't that these
> little chargers just can't get your batteries
> refilled before you take the car back out,
> and so you've been chronically undercharging the
> batteries.
The Paktrakr is confirming that the chargers are
taking all 11 AGMs up to 14.5-14.7v before going into
float of 13.6v. Quite conveniently, once they are in
float, the Gel batt has arrived at about 13.9v in cc
stage. So at least its getting that much charge.
After shallow discharges, the Soneils are simply
plugged in. On deeper discharges, the onboard Russco
takes the batts up to 13.5v-13.8v and then shuts down.
Then the Soneils are plugged in to finish the charge.
Mark
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