On 01 Feb 2017, at 12:10, Telmo Menezes wrote:
I agree with the video. You might also like this:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a6/a9/9f/a6a99fb6a3ad81cefc08ba8a67dab9e0.jpg
The narrator says: "putting god ahead of humanity is a terrible
thing". I agree, but what I meant from the beginning is even more
general. I would say:
"putting absolute belief ahead of humanity is a terrible thing"
Yes, that's the point. The problem is the use of authoritative
argument. When done in biology in the ex-USSR, it led to the most
starving problem due to human decisions.
Then the fact that we tolerate (and been forced to tolerate) the use
of authoritative argument (argument per authority) in religion and
theology is part of our history. It means that we have not yet
compeletely succeeded in closing the Middle-Age period. The most
important science remains in the hand of the institutionalized
charlatans. To be fair, some charlatan in some religion are aware of
that problem, and some churches do evolve.
Institutionalized religion have install solid tools to prevent the
research in theology. Pagan, non confessional religious people and
theological researcher have been banned or killed systematically. The
gnostic atheists continue that work very well, making an important
catholic bishop saying that atheism is the most faithful ally of the
Church.
This includes organised religion but also stalinism,
In science, we often redefined the terms, and here I would say that it
is a useful pedagogical idea, so as to circumscribe well the problem.
Stalinism was based on the materialist faith in the second god of
Aristotle: primary matter. Communisme in the East of Europa was a
religious tyranny, and most people daring to try to conserve their
religion were killed.
the Chinese
cultural revolution and other horrors. These were also done in the
name of absolute belief. I don't think that it matters if absolute
belief comes with the label "god" or something else.
I use God in the sense of the thing we believe should explain
everuthing, and that we feel or assume to exist despite we can't have
any rational justification. Then we can show that all ideally correct
machine looking inward develop such a belief (even if lacking any
senses or perceptions). All machine looking inward develop the
intution that truth about them is larger than what they can eventually
justify. There is a surrational corona extending the rational, with
respect to all machine. The most famous proposition/sentence belonging
to that corona is Gödel's self-consistency statement. A machine can
bet correctly that she is consistent, but will become inconsistent if
she adds this as axiom. G* did warn us: <>t -> ~[]<>t.
Science and atheism are different things. The first is a method of
inquiry, the second is a belief system (which is not coherent, because
the thing that it opposes is also not coherent).
I agree, with some proviso, since now many atheists consider that
agnosticism is part of atheism, and which forces me to distinguish
between gnostic and agnostic atheism. But some "propagandist" plays on
that confusion. many people confuse indeed the absence of belief in
God(s) with the belief that there is no God(s).
If g means God exists, in the large sense of "creative principle" or
even "explanatory principle", or "reality", I take the believers to
say "[]g", the gnostic atheists to say []~g, the agnostics to say ~[]g
& ~[]~g.
Then in the computationalist theories, the faith can be restricted at
the meta level to Church-thesis and to the medical practice personal
bet, and at the scientific level it can be restricted to some part of
the first order arithmetical truth/reality.
But people must be aware that even a question like the will or
awareness of the arithmetical reality (the "small" God of the ideally
correct machine) is very difficult, both to enunciate, and to solve
(it extends in the analytical reality). I suspect the presence
(assuming computationalism) of absolutely undecidable proposition,
like plausibly computationalism itself)
I can explain more on this if people are interested, but there are
also excellent books, like Rogers.
Are there people who have still a problem with understanding what is
an arithmetical sentence and proposition?
To put it bluntly, mathematical logic *is* the theology of the correct
machine, and even of the correct small gods (but there are big gods
with too much arithmetical knowledge which have richer theologies!).
Here by god(s) I mean simply a non computable set of (Gödel number of)
belief/sentences.
Bruno
Only bad faith fears reason,
Only bad reason fears faith.
Telmo.
On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:14 PM, smitra <smi...@zonnet.nl> wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN9sw7kbMGE
Saibal
On 30-01-2017 04:44, Samiya Illias wrote:
These videos might be of interest to some (the first one is by a
Math
professor):
https://www.quora.com/What-reasons-have-made-an-atheist-convert-to-Islam/answer/Shau-Sumar?srid=s5B1&share=215c99a7
[1]
Samiya
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to
everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list
[2].
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3].
Links:
------
[1]
https://www.quora.com/What-reasons-have-made-an-atheist-convert-to-Islam/answer/Shau-Sumar?srid=s5B1&share=215c99a7
[2] https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list
[3] https://groups.google.com/d/optout
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an
email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-
l...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
