Randy ...

That is phenomenal News... Crit is edging quickly back towards normal.
Wouldn't it be great if more vets were as open minded and caring as your own and , yes, there is more than one cat that would no longer be on this earth were it not for this forum. My own little Yogi included....   If one listens only to the uninformed vets it is easy to assume that the disease if a death sentence and nothing is lost helping the animal avoid future suffering by taking him/her out now.... Two vets have " suggested " this to me without really _ saying_ it....   I'm so glad for Curly and you that the future looks that much brighter.



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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Curly's gradual improvement (Randy Henke)
   2. Re: Curly's gradual improvement (dlg...@windstream.net)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 08:52:02 -0600
From: Randy Henke To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Message-ID:
        
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Curly's latest labs from yesterday show another hematocrit leap from 15% to 23% in 2 1/2 weeks. She has also gained 6/10 of a pound! (7.1 up from 6.5). Behaviorally she is almost back to her old self. She is no longer hiding, seeks out attention and is eating well. Our vet told us he is astounded. But more importantly, he said that he is changing his treatment for FELV cats based on Curly's remarkable improvement and will be using Prednisone, Winstrol and Doxycyline in the future. A small win for our side against
this disease.

Her blood chemistry test did show that her ALT levels have risen to 174 which is an indicator that liver cells are being destroyed. Our vet said it
is definitely a result of the anabolic steroid but he isn't overly
concerned yet. H wants us to continue treatment for another month. Once
Curly's hematocrit is up to around 30 he wants to start cycling the
Winstrol, one week on and one week off, to give her liver a chance to
regenerate.

Without this forum and the advice I received here along with a very
understanding and open-minded vet, I'm quite sure Curly wouldn't be around anymore. I have my fingers crossed that we can keep things balanced and
headed in the right direction but so far, so good!

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:

Hopefully, we start winning the vets over when they see the results, and they start to tell each other about some success for FeLV cats with this combination. By the way, I have also effectively used this combination for
a cat who, I believe had FIV, and I currently am using just the
Doxy/Winstrol combination on 2 of 3 kittens we picked up from the side of
the road in August and they displayed the symptoms of Lyme Disease
(alternating lameness and other signs). In the last case, I am pretty sure
that the majority of the effect on the Lyme organism *(Borrelia
bergdorferi) *is from the Doxycycline, but the good effect on the
lameness (which had been in place for several months before I thought to try the medications) is I believe as a result of the use of the Winstrol.



When the vets tell me that (a) they don?t know what the diagnosis is and other options seem ineffective or (b) they tell me there is no hope, I will
usually try the Winstrol and almost always get a decent result.



Amani



*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
Of *Randy Henke
*Sent:* January-22-17 11:54 AM
*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement



Amani, you asked what our vet thought about Curly's improvement. He was
very pleased but I think he was also a little surprised. He is an
incredible vet and always goes the extra mile to listen and explain things.
He was also very open to letting us try the Prednisolone, Doxy and
Winstrol, even though he'd never treated a FELV cat in that way. I think he thought it would help put my mind at ease that we'd tried everything we could and he's right. It would have done that even if the treatment hadn't worked. He was very concerned about the Prednisolone opening her up to secondary infections but once he saw the numbers start to improve he was convinced we were doing the right thing and told us to keep it up. I am
going to talk to him about continuing the Doxy.

Robert, that's a great idea about crushing the Doxy, mixing it in broth and administering with a syringe. We'd tried mixing it in her food once and
that did not go well. Obviously it's a very nasty tasting medicine.

Ardy and Katherine, thanks for your support. I really wish that more vets were open to trying novel treatments that hold so much potential instead of
assuming that they know everything.

Randy





On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:

Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the
medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet think of the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick, and it is still well outside the normal range, but you?ve basically had a 60% increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and wonderful. It is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood being given as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because Curly is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with someone
else?s blood.



With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would probably want to continue if you can. You?ve had a very good result. Why mess with the formula? I can?t say definitively, one way or the other, since I very much figured things out by running weekly blood work and if I saw a dip or a reversal in the numbers, I would adjust the medication accordingly. I
don?t know if I am right about my Doxy theory (and it is just pure
conjecture on my part, based on my non-vet research) but I really think that the Doxy is part of the effective package. I feel that the Doxy holds the virus in check ? perhaps slowing down its reproduction by inhibiting RNA synthesis ? enough to allow the body to make some progress with the
Winstrol. I don?t think that the Winstrol on its own is enough.



With the Doxy, I used to scrape the quarter tablet into a slab of butter to coat it with butter, to help it slide down better, since the quarter table it very dry and scratchy. I also posted recently that the Doxy we get from vets (and even from our doctors) is the same as what you can get to treat fish or birds, in a pet store, and that is sold in powdered packages
of 100 mg (same as 1 tablet). A prescription isn?t needed for it, and
because it is powdered, it can be mixed into food or liquid.



Great news, too, with your success in getting her to eat more and put on
weight.



I love to hear good news on this front. Let?s hope she continues in the
right direction.



Amani



*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
Of *Randy Henke
*Sent:* January-19-17 9:53 PM
*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement



It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this
forum for our little girl, Curly.

At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her hematocrit had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially Amani's,
and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline.

According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick kitty but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low. All other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than three
weeks of treatment.

She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see more improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is a good
sign.

We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would have her good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down. Last week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us a prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in one of
his posts.

One day last week she didn't want to eat so I gave her a quarter pill
(3.75 mg) which is the dose our vet prescribed to give her daily. The
result was phenomenal and almost a little scary. She was bouncing off the walls within a few hours and eating everything she could get her paws on. I almost felt a little sorry for her because it was like she couldn't sit still for more than a couple of minutes. But it was like getting our old
Curly back again in just a single day!

The effect tapered off after a couple of days and we didn't feel
comfortable giving her another dose until she stopped eating again because of how dramatic the change was. I've read online that a smaller dose could be effective if given every 72 hours so we are going to try doing that so she keeps eating. It was incredible to see her weight go up by a quarter
pound in just a couple of days.

We are continuing the Prednisolone and Winstrol at the recommended doses but our two week Doxycycline prescription ran out over a week ago. She does appear to still be making improvement without it but I'm wondering if I
should ask for another prescription to keep that going as well.

I always worry about giving her the quarter pill of Doxy because I know it
can cause esophageal damage if it isn't followed by liquids. I was
following the pill with the liquid Winstrol solution but wasn't sure if
that was enough.

Many thanks to everyone who gave us advice. It looks like we might have our Curly back for at least a while yet and it's all because of you people.

Randy




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Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org



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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 11:34:03 -0600
From: To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Message-ID: <20170126123403.02FDQ.12771.root@pamxwww08-z01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Great results for Curly and the vet!

---- Randy Henke  wrote:
Curly's latest labs from yesterday show another hematocrit leap from 15% to 23% in 2 1/2 weeks. She has also gained 6/10 of a pound! (7.1 up from 6.5). Behaviorally she is almost back to her old self. She is no longer hiding, seeks out attention and is eating well. Our vet told us he is astounded. But more importantly, he said that he is changing his treatment for FELV cats based on Curly's remarkable improvement and will be using Prednisone, Winstrol and Doxycyline in the future. A small win for our side against
this disease.

Her blood chemistry test did show that her ALT levels have risen to 174 which is an indicator that liver cells are being destroyed. Our vet said it
is definitely a result of the anabolic steroid but he isn't overly
concerned yet. H wants us to continue treatment for another month. Once
Curly's hematocrit is up to around 30 he wants to start cycling the
Winstrol, one week on and one week off, to give her liver a chance to
regenerate.

Without this forum and the advice I received here along with a very
understanding and open-minded vet, I'm quite sure Curly wouldn't be around anymore. I have my fingers crossed that we can keep things balanced and
headed in the right direction but so far, so good!

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:

Hopefully, we start winning the vets over when they see the results, and they start to tell each other about some success for FeLV cats with this combination. By the way, I have also effectively used this combination for
a cat who, I believe had FIV, and I currently am using just the
Doxy/Winstrol combination on 2 of 3 kittens we picked up from the side of
the road in August and they displayed the symptoms of Lyme Disease
(alternating lameness and other signs). In the last case, I am pretty sure
that the majority of the effect on the Lyme organism *(Borrelia
bergdorferi) *is from the Doxycycline, but the good effect on the
lameness (which had been in place for several months before I thought to try the medications) is I believe as a result of the use of the Winstrol.



When the vets tell me that (a) they don?t know what the diagnosis is and other options seem ineffective or (b) they tell me there is no hope, I will
usually try the Winstrol and almost always get a decent result.



Amani



*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
Of *Randy Henke
*Sent:* January-22-17 11:54 AM
*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement



Amani, you asked what our vet thought about Curly's improvement. He was
very pleased but I think he was also a little surprised. He is an
incredible vet and always goes the extra mile to listen and explain things.
He was also very open to letting us try the Prednisolone, Doxy and
Winstrol, even though he'd never treated a FELV cat in that way. I think he thought it would help put my mind at ease that we'd tried everything we could and he's right. It would have done that even if the treatment hadn't worked. He was very concerned about the Prednisolone opening her up to secondary infections but once he saw the numbers start to improve he was convinced we were doing the right thing and told us to keep it up. I am
going to talk to him about continuing the Doxy.

Robert, that's a great idea about crushing the Doxy, mixing it in broth and administering with a syringe. We'd tried mixing it in her food once and
that did not go well. Obviously it's a very nasty tasting medicine.

Ardy and Katherine, thanks for your support. I really wish that more vets were open to trying novel treatments that hold so much potential instead of
assuming that they know everything.

Randy





On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:

Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the
medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet think of the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick, and it is still well outside the normal range, but you?ve basically had a 60% increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and wonderful. It is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood being given as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because Curly is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with someone
else?s blood.



With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would probably want to continue if you can. You?ve had a very good result. Why mess with the formula? I can?t say definitively, one way or the other, since I very much figured things out by running weekly blood work and if I saw a dip or a reversal in the numbers, I would adjust the medication accordingly. I
don?t know if I am right about my Doxy theory (and it is just pure
conjecture on my part, based on my non-vet research) but I really think that the Doxy is part of the effective package. I feel that the Doxy holds the virus in check ? perhaps slowing down its reproduction by inhibiting RNA synthesis ? enough to allow the body to make some progress with the
Winstrol. I don?t think that the Winstrol on its own is enough.



With the Doxy, I used to scrape the quarter tablet into a slab of butter to coat it with butter, to help it slide down better, since the quarter table it very dry and scratchy. I also posted recently that the Doxy we get from vets (and even from our doctors) is the same as what you can get to treat fish or birds, in a pet store, and that is sold in powdered packages of 100 mg (same as 1 tablet). A prescription isn?t needed for it, and
because it is powdered, it can be mixed into food or liquid.



Great news, too, with your success in getting her to eat more and put on
weight.



I love to hear good news on this front. Let?s hope she continues in the
right direction.



Amani



*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
Of *Randy Henke
*Sent:* January-19-17 9:53 PM
*To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement



It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this
forum for our little girl, Curly.

At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her hematocrit had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially Amani's,
and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline.

According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick kitty but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low. All other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than three
weeks of treatment.

She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see more improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is a good
sign.

We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would have her good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down. Last week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us a prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in one of
his posts.

One day last week she didn't want to eat so I gave her a quarter pill (3.75 mg) which is the dose our vet prescribed to give her daily. The result was phenomenal and almost a little scary. She was bouncing off the walls within a few hours and eating everything she could get her paws on. I almost felt a little sorry for her because it was like she couldn't sit still for more than a couple of minutes. But it was like getting our old
Curly back again in just a single day!

The effect tapered off after a couple of days and we didn't feel
comfortable giving her another dose until she stopped eating again because of how dramatic the change was. I've read online that a smaller dose could be effective if given every 72 hours so we are going to try doing that so she keeps eating. It was incredible to see her weight go up by a quarter
pound in just a couple of days.

We are continuing the Prednisolone and Winstrol at the recommended doses but our two week Doxycycline prescription ran out over a week ago. She does appear to still be making improvement without it but I'm wondering if I
should ask for another prescription to keep that going as well.

I always worry about giving her the quarter pill of Doxy because I know it
can cause esophageal damage if it isn't followed by liquids. I was
following the pill with the liquid Winstrol solution but wasn't sure if
that was enough.

Many thanks to everyone who gave us advice. It looks like we might have our Curly back for at least a while yet and it's all because of you people.

Randy




_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org



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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org






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