I'd be very careful about not spaying a FeLV positive cat...  I'm curious about this assertion that all have died within a week??  If that were a general outcome I think more of us would have heard about it ( we have spayed and neutered 10 cats at the shelter where I volunteer in the last year and none have died....likewise with innoculations)....   I wanted my boy to have his rabies Vaccination because he periodically catches mice that manage to find their way into my second floor condo AND because it is illegal to not do so in NYS ( some vets will refuse to see cats that have not had rabies vaccination)...  I held off on the PanLeuk booster... Instead did a Titre ( 111.00 for the Titre!!!!  would have been a LOT cheaper to vaccinate)... but vet now says he's good for at least 3 years... I really don't like the idea of not spaying or neutering FeLV cats...  one unfortunate unintended pregnancy could add several positive unwanted kittens to the population and that would be just too sad....  Life is so seldom happy for FeLV kitties..... our cats are the exception rather than the rule...

On Thu, Mar 02, 2017 at 03:02 PM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org wrote:


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Losing patience (dlg...@windstream.net)
   2. Re: Losing patience (Marlene Snowman)
   3. Re: Figaro... (ROBERT CHAPEL)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 12:40:42 -0600
From: To: Margo , felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience
Message-ID: <20170302134042.IOX9V.7043.root@pamxwww04-z01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

The first thing I do when a new cat comes to me is spay or neuter, especially a male, makes him less agressive and cuts down on spraying. If he does spry, Jackson Galaxy has a product that really works! I use it for urine, vomit and it really newutralizews the odor. First though, I do not want to be responsible for unwanted kittens so I spay/neuter. At first, for a few years, everyone else gets vaccine for FELV. Especially after the cat is at least 4 or 5 years, they do not seem to pass it on to others. I have had as many as 10 cats in the house and no transmission of the disease. Maybe I have been lucky. Annie still shows positive, but she is 9 years and no one else has become positive.

---- Margo  wrote:
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2017 13:53:58 -0500
From: Marlene Snowman To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience
Message-ID: <469a7abe-5296-4dec-a5f5-1cb90c197...@icloud.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Are you suggesting giving the vaccine to a cat (in my case 1.5) that has tested positive but no outward signs of the virus ? I too haven't spayed her as my vet suggests that every cat she has spayed/neutered that was positive died within a week. I made the decision based on that to not spay so as not risk that. The vet has also recommended no vaccines as they are live virus and because of the positive testing recommended not providing any of those.
Marlene
Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:40 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:

The first thing I do when a new cat comes to me is spay or neuter, especially a male, makes him less agressive and cuts down on spraying. If he does spry, Jackson Galaxy has a product that really works! I use it for urine, vomit and it really newutralizews the odor. First though, I do not want to be responsible for unwanted kittens so I spay/neuter. At first, for a few years, everyone else gets vaccine for FELV. Especially after the cat is at least 4 or 5 years, they do not seem to pass it on to others. I have had as many as 10 cats in the house and no transmission of the disease. Maybe I have been lucky. Annie still shows positive, but she is 9 years and no one else has become positive.

---- Margo  wrote:
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 15:02:29 -0500 (EST)
From: ROBERT CHAPEL To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Figaro...
Message-ID: <7c087074.50dfc.15a909ddfc1.webtop...@optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no

Jenny...
Are you thinking of bringing him to a shelter??...? If I were you I would research FeLV rescues/Sanctuaries.? Depending upon in what part of the country you reside you_ might_ be able to work something out.? I realize how difficult/frustrating it can be caring for an animal that is both needful and uncooperative....? If memory serves... this is the little boy that you have reservations about integrating with your other cats??....??? If this is the one , I believe, our general feeling was that you would be better off ( rather than going the frustrating route of isolating him from all the others) to innoculate the others ( if they are adult) and integrating him....? But... if that makes you uncomfortable and the current arrangement is not working for you... looking for alternative arrangements might be the next step....


On Thu, Mar 02, 2017 at 08:38 AM, felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Knowing the " whys" of Win/Pred/Doxy (Jennifer Olson)
   2. Re: RNA effects of Doxy (ROBERT CHAPEL)
   3. Losing patience (Jennifer Olson)



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 22:19:00 -0600
From: Jennifer Olson To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: ROBERT CHAPEL Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Knowing the " whys" of Win/Pred/Doxy
Message-ID:
        
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Alright- Figaro just pee'd on my bed right- next to me- after I cleaned box (and then his paws because he made loose poop & got litter ETC on the bed) caught him in the act. He hasn't been neutered yet. I threw my bedding into washer, sprayed bed with "Nature's Miracle- No Spray" & resolved I am
NOT remaking bed...
I can hear him crying, like he does when I AM there trying to go to sleep.
Overnight is the biggest lump of time I can be with him so he isn't
COMPLETELY isolated, alone.... I hate this.
Do I just go to bed now upstairs, or TRY to lay in a dry spot with new
blankets?????
='~{

On Mar 1, 2017 4:26 PM,  wrote:

AMEN TO THAT!  I especially get angry that they do not consider
alternative medicine a viable tratment. Unless I get a broken arm, I first try alternative meds. I have not had a flu shot for over 8 years and have not had a cold or flu. I use ginger, turmeric, garlic, onion, cinnamon as my anti flu meds. I just wish we knew more about animals (cats) and herbs,
which is safe or not safe to use.  Then when something comes up on a
weekend/holiday and I cannot et my cat to the vet, I would be able to start
treatment  until I can get to a vet.

---- ROBERT CHAPEL  wrote:
Amani...

If we consider the extended time frame for Doxy and multiple courses of
other ABX it makes a certain "intuitive" sense that a non bacterial
infection is going to require a longer period of time to have whatever
non-specific ( read... not related to bacterial infection
necessarily)... So little research money appears to be devoted to FeLV
that I don't know that we'll know in the next decade unless the
continuing demands of consumers ( who do NOT want to hear , in this day and age of " Miracles") that there is _ no hope_ for their much loved pets) alter this course. I STILL bristle when I think of the closed
minds in the medical and Veterinary community and SO resent that
businessmen( Yes...that is what the vast majority are turning into now that practices are being forced to consolidate into " Health Systems")..
hold the power of life and death over us AND our pets.   On the plus
side.... with the business model being what it is ( and in contrast to the lost art of " professionalism") The CONSUMER is always right. Vets
will be forced, in the future, to work more closely with the "
customers" wishes as attachment to a given vet will become less common as time goes on and people will " practice shop " for the answers they want until such time as Vet services become so expensive that insurance
becomes a " must have " and ultimately go the way of medicine (
ie...being confined to a slate of approved practitioners...
again....limiting choice)... But... there are some years to go before that happens and I feel that there IS a window of opportunity happening NOW and for the next few years for people to have some real influence on how Vets practice.... I am betting, for example, that had I had the money to go to a more " well to do " neighborhood where people are more demanding and better informed I could have found a vet to cooperate... Here in the "sticks" people just blindly accept what the vet has to say and they still enjoy the freedom of calling all the shots..... This WILL end over the next couple of years. I learned a lot with this first
experience and made mistakes that I WILL NOT make again.

BTW.... Do you have any literature in support of the AntiRNA effects of Doxy... I am SO happy that there are still a couple of things out there that we still can get our hands on that don't have to pass muster with script pad businessmen.... STILL I am also not advocating the the medically ill prepared take it upon themselves to decide that THEY will decide what is best for their animal... If we are going to go above and beyond our Vets advice it would best be with very sound reasoning and an EXCELLENT understanding of what we are doing and why. Anything less and the community of Veterinary practitioners could easily dismiss our successes as "dumb luck" or ascribe them to " unknown" factors..... I think this is particularly important re: Winstrol/Pred/Doxy I'd hate to see people going to their vets asking for this combination of drugs and really having an inadequate understanding of why they are asking for
beyond the fact that it's been recommended on our forum...    For
myself... I am clear on the Whys of Winstrol and Doxy ( though will be looking for more lit support on the RNA effects of Doxy) but not clear
on the whys of the Pred.
Sorry for taking up so much space here but I'm having an " attack " of missing my little guy and am tremulous about being caught in the same
position if I take in another FeLV as I am inclined to do....



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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 04:19:05 -0500 (EST)
From: ROBERT CHAPEL To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] RNA effects of Doxy
Message-ID: <66d3a0cb.50b3f.15a8e50d2f6.webtop...@optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no

Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate these references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too much for them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full medical databases ( for free)...

VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes.... it does indeed appear that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes....?? BUT... it was also via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that my Veterinary opthalmologist was using off label.....? Of course the target for these meds was the Herpes Virus....but it too ,is,? a retro Virus and these meds "might" have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold my house to do so : ) You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using them for HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for Veterinary Use.....? I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet services as I feel they will ultimately reduce the number of pet owners.....? I was able to easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low Social Worker income back in the 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 can easily add 400.00 a month to ones expenses....? Many people who might formerly have adopted multiple cats will now only take in one or? two.....? All the more reason for forums like ours as it is up to us to share our knowledge and experiences to help each other avoid total reliance on a veterinary system that is not always working to preserve our FeLV cats lives..... ? ?


Hi Bob

I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of Doxycycline to interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with viral infection, but here are a few titles to look up on the Internet:

- Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis virus in vitro - FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2015

- Control of small inhibitory RNA levels and RNA interference by doxycycline induced activation of a minimal RNA polymerase III promoter - 2006 Nucleic Acids Res. 34

- Inhibitory effect of doxycycline against dengue virus replication in vitro - October 2013 Archives of Virology 159(4) - Study of the antiviral activity of some derivatives of tetracycline and non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs towards dengue virus - August 2013 Tropical Biomedicine 30(4):1-10 (BY THE WAY - DOXYCYCLINE IS A TETRACYCLINE)

- A study of the clinical activity of a gel combining monocaprin and doxycycline: a novel treatment for herpes labialis. (2012) J Oral Path Med 41:61-67



The following paper was interesting in that it explored the role of Doxycycline in inhibiting tumour cell proliferation, angiogenesis, metastasis and migration of cancerous cells (including leukemic cells) from the bone marrow:

- Doxycycline inhibits leukemic cell migration via inhibition of matrix metalloproteinases and phosphorylation of focal adhesion kinase - published Molecular Medicine Reports, September 2015 Vol. 12, Issue 3.


Amani

P.S. - By the way, Bob. The other thing that was featured in that show last night about the fight against Ebola, is that the same doctor who contracted it and was declared symptom-free, later began to develop eye problems and when they examined his eye, they found millions of the Ebola viruses in the eye. The programme explained that the eye was an area of reduced immunity in the body, and thus, the virus had found a breeding ground where it remained, though it had been cleared from the rest of the body. They therefore began treating the doctor's eye, and the treatment was ultimately successful. It brought to mind the problems Yogi had had with his eyes, and I wondered if the answer was similar - that the virus had had a toe-hold there.


-----Original Message-----
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT CHAPEL
Sent: March-01-17 5:02 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Knowing the " whys" of Win/Pred/Doxy

Amani...

If we consider the extended time frame for Doxy and multiple courses of other ABX it makes a certain "intuitive" sense that a non bacterial infection is going to require a longer period of time to have whatever non-specific ( read... not related to bacterial infection necessarily)...? So little research money appears to be devoted to FeLV that I don't know that we'll know in the next decade unless the continuing demands of consumers ( who do NOT want to hear , in this day and age of " Miracles") that there is _ no hope_ for their much loved pets) alter this course.??? I STILL bristle when I think of the closed minds in the medical and Veterinary community and SO resent that businessmen( Yes...that is what the vast majority are turning into now that practices are being forced to consolidate into " Health Systems").. hold the power of life and death over us AND our pets.?? On the plus side.... with the business model being what it is ( and in contrast to the lost art of " professionalism")? The CONSUMER is always right.? Vets will be forced, in the future, to work more closely with the " customers" wishes as attachment to a given vet will become less common as time goes on and people will " practice shop " for the answers they want until such time as Vet services become so expensive that insurance becomes a " must have " and ultimately go the way of medicine ( ie...being confined to a slate of approved practitioners... again....limiting choice)...? But... there are some years to go before that happens and I feel that there IS a window of opportunity happening NOW and for the next few? years for people to have some real influence on how Vets practice....?? I am betting, for example, that had I had the money to go to a more " well to do " neighborhood where people are more demanding and better informed I could have found a vet to cooperate... Here in the "sticks" people just blindly accept what the vet has to say and they still enjoy the freedom of calling all the shots.....?? This WILL end over the next couple of years.? I learned a lot with this first experience and made mistakes that I WILL NOT make again.

BTW....? Do you have any literature in support of the AntiRNA effects of Doxy...???? I am SO happy that there are still a couple of things out there that we still can get our hands on that don't have to pass muster with script pad businessmen....? STILL I am also not advocating the the medically ill prepared take it upon themselves to decide that THEY will decide what is best for their animal... If we are going to go above and beyond our Vets advice it would best be with very sound reasoning and an EXCELLENT understanding of what we are doing and why.?? Anything less and the community of Veterinary practitioners could easily dismiss our successes as "dumb luck" or ascribe them to " unknown" factors.....? I think this is particularly important re: Winstrol/Pred/Doxy?? I'd hate to see people going to their vets asking for this combination of drugs and really having an inadequate understanding of why they are asking for beyond the fact that it's been recommended on our forum...??? For m yself... I am clear on the Whys of Winstrol and Doxy ( though will be looking for more lit support on the RNA effects of Doxy) but not clear on the whys of the Pred. Sorry for taking up so much space here but I'm having an " attack " of missing my little guy and am tremulous about being caught in the same position if I take in another FeLV as I am inclined to do....



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Subject: Digest Footer

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------------------------------

End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 35, Issue 3
***************************************




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 07:38:35 -0600
From: Jennifer Olson To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Losing patience
Message-ID:
        
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Figaro is adorable, but I'm so frustrated with the whole situation-
I'm begining to consider other livining arrangements... aka placement...

On Mar 2, 2017 3:19 AM, "ROBERT CHAPEL"  wrote:

Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate these references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too much for them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full
medical databases ( for free)...

VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes.... it does indeed appear that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes.... BUT... it was also via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that my Veterinary opthalmologist was using off label..... Of course the target for these meds was the Herpes Virus....but it too ,is, a retro Virus and
these meds "might" have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well
had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold my
house to do so : )
You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using them
for HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for
Veterinary Use.....  I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet
services as I feel they will ultimately reduce the number of pet
owners..... I was able to easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low Social Worker income back in the 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 can
easily add 400.00 a month to ones expenses....  Many people who might
formerly have adopted multiple cats will now only take in one or two..... All the more reason for forums like ours as it is up to us to share our knowledge and experiences to help each other avoid total reliance on a veterinary system that is not always working to preserve our FeLV cats
lives.....


Hi Bob

I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of Doxycycline to interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with viral infection,
but here are a few titles to look up on the Internet:

- Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis virus in
vitro - FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2015

- Control of small inhibitory RNA levels and RNA interference by
doxycycline induced activation of a minimal RNA polymerase III promoter -
2006 Nucleic Acids Res. 34

- Inhibitory effect of doxycycline against dengue virus replication in
vitro - October 2013 Archives of Virology 159(4)
- Study of the antiviral activity of some derivatives of tetracycline and non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs towards dengue virus - August 2013
Tropical Biomedicine 30(4):1-10   (BY THE WAY - DOXYCYCLINE IS A
TETRACYCLINE)

- A study of the clinical activity of a gel combining monocaprin and
doxycycline: a novel treatment for herpes labialis. (2012) J Oral Path Med
41:61-67



The following paper was interesting in that it explored the role of
Doxycycline in inhibiting tumour cell proliferation, angiogenesis,
metastasis and migration of cancerous cells (including leukemic cells) from
the bone marrow:

- Doxycycline inhibits leukemic cell migration via inhibition of matrix metalloproteinases and phosphorylation of focal adhesion kinase - published
Molecular Medicine Reports, September 2015 Vol. 12, Issue 3.


Amani

P.S. - By the way, Bob. The other thing that was featured in that show last night about the fight against Ebola, is that the same doctor who contracted it and was declared symptom-free, later began to develop eye problems and when they examined his eye, they found millions of the Ebola viruses in the eye. The programme explained that the eye was an area of reduced immunity in the body, and thus, the virus had found a breeding ground where it remained, though it had been cleared from the rest of the body. They therefore began treating the doctor's eye, and the treatment was ultimately successful. It brought to mind the problems Yogi had had with his eyes, and I wondered if the answer was similar - that the virus had had
a toe-hold there.


-----Original Message-----
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
ROBERT CHAPEL
Sent: March-01-17 5:02 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Cc: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Knowing the " whys" of Win/Pred/Doxy

Amani...

If we consider the extended time frame for Doxy and multiple courses of
other ABX it makes a certain "intuitive" sense that a non bacterial
infection is going to require a longer period of time to have whatever non-specific ( read... not related to bacterial infection necessarily)...? So little research money appears to be devoted to FeLV that I don't know
that we'll know in the next decade unless the continuing demands of
consumers ( who do NOT want to hear , in this day and age of " Miracles")
that there is _ no hope_ for their much loved
pets) alter this course.??? I STILL bristle when I think of the closed
minds in the medical and Veterinary community and SO resent that
businessmen( Yes...that is what the vast majority are turning into now that practices are being forced to consolidate into " Health Systems").. hold the power of life and death over us AND our pets.?? On the plus side.... with the business model being what it is ( and in contrast to the lost art of " professionalism")? The CONSUMER is always right.? Vets will be forced,
in the future, to work more closely with the " customers" wishes as
attachment to a given vet will become less common as time goes on and people will " practice shop " for the answers they want until such time as Vet services become so expensive that insurance becomes a " must have " and ultimately go the way of medicine ( ie...being confined to a slate of approved practitioners... again....limiting choice)...? But... there are some years to go before that happens and I feel that there IS a window of opportunity happening NOW and for the next few? years for people to have some real influence on how Vets practice....?? I am betting, for example, that had I had the money to go to a more " well to do " neighborhood where people are more demanding and better informed I could have found a vet to cooperate... Here in the "sticks" people just blindly accept what the vet has to say and they still enjoy the freedom of calling all the shots.....?? This WILL end over the next couple of years.? I learned a lot with this
first experience and made mistakes that I WILL NOT make again.

BTW....? Do you have any literature in support of the AntiRNA effects of Doxy...???? I am SO happy that there are still a couple of things out there that we still can get our hands on that don't have to pass muster with
script pad businessmen....? STILL I am also not advocating the the
medically ill prepared take it upon themselves to decide that THEY will decide what is best for their animal... If we are going to go above and beyond our Vets advice it would best be with very sound reasoning and an EXCELLENT understanding of what we are doing and why.?? Anything less and
the community of Veterinary practitioners could easily dismiss our
successes as "dumb luck" or ascribe them to " unknown" factors.....? I think this is particularly important re: Winstrol/Pred/Doxy?? I'd hate to see people going to their vets asking for this combination of drugs and really having an inadequate understanding of why they are asking for beyond
the fact that it's been recommended on our forum...??? For m
yself... I am clear on the Whys of Winstrol and Doxy ( though will be looking for more lit support on the RNA effects of Doxy) but not clear on
the whys of the Pred.
Sorry for taking up so much space here but I'm having an " attack " of missing my little guy and am tremulous about being caught in the same
position if I take in another FeLV as I am inclined to do....



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------------------------------

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------------------------------

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***************************************


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