Hi

I didn't mean to be rude either, 

it's just that having a backupsystem that really works like it "should be" 
just doesn't exist currently (to my knowledge).

For you're example, (a.conf, b.conf) you need some filesystem support to be 
able to replicate your changes to another system/backup.

Currently there's no method/sw that I know of that is supporting 
windows/unix/linux and is in common practise 
(otherwise it's difficult to use in an enterprise environment due to the shere 
amount of servers and different OS's).

What you maybe are searching maybe FAM (File Alteration Monitor)?!? 
http://oss.sgi.com/projects/fam/faq.html

And use of a FAM mirror
http://www.linuxfocus.org/common/src/article199/fam_mirror

Unless you set up something like that, you're not getting any solution to your 
a.conf/b.conf problem, the "old" methods" of full/incremental/differential 
backups just doesn't provide that functionality. Also isn't a tape backup 
system flexible enough, or fast enough to support that.

> I will not trust my system+data to such a backup-system. Are *you*
> comfortable with that? What is the down side of being able to restore
> reliably?
Rather too much than too little data protection is what keeps an enterprise 
datacenter running...

> You are right, I don't know "EMC Networker, Veritas Netbackup, HP Data
> Protector", but I'm willing to bet they can restore a directory
> containing *exactly* b.conf. (Am I right?)
They can, if you really have an full backup just before the crash/logical 
accident happens. For incrementals, it's just to restore full+incrementals 
and get all those a.conf's as well ;-(

--Robert

On Fri 4 August 2006 09:50, Peter Valdemar Mørch wrote:
> flexbackup-at-worreby.ch |Lists| wrote:
>   > 1. Have you the slightest idea how it's done in the reality?
> >
> >     That's standard procedure to restore full backup plus all
> >     incrementals you have, if you invented some other schema,
> >     please let me know
> >     (at work we're currently backing up between 15-20 TB / night)
>
> and
>
>  > 2. What's worse? Dataloss or too much data!!!
>
> Let us first agree that data loss is totally unacceptable.
> I'm not arguing that data loss is a good thing. (Am i? Where?)
>
> But for me, "too much data" is *ALSO* unacceptable, because it does not
> represent reality. Let me illustrate with a scenario:
>
> * I start with a directory e.g. under Apache's configuration that
>    has a single file a.conf
> * I make a full backup.
> * rm a.conf
> * Add a file b.conf
> * (Notice that at no point in time was there ever more
>    than one file in the directory)
> * I make an incremental backup.
> * Hard disk crash
> * Restore full backup
> * Restore incremental backup
>
> Result with current flexbackup:
>
> A directory containing both a.conf AND b.conf.
>
> Wouldn't you rather end up with a directory containing *exactly* b.conf
> - the exact contents of the directory when the incremental backup was made?
>
> Ok, so in a directory where there is supposed to be 1 single file you
> may be able to remember yourself to delete a.conf (because it is *not*
> supposed to be there). Lets just hope I slept well and didn't remove
> b.conf instead by accident because I was tired... ;)
>
> But with "between 15-20 TB" of data as you put it? Who can remember
> which of the gazillion files to delete?
>
> No, I don't want that to be a guessing game.
>
> In some (most?) cases, "too much data" is just annoying - not really
> catastrophic. But in some cases (e.g. conf.d, cron.d, *.d directories,
> or a file containing sensitive data that was deleted) this *is*
> catastrophic. I could end up with a system that won't boot or misbehaves
> or is dangerous after a full+incremental restore.
>
> I will not trust my system+data to such a backup-system. Are *you*
> comfortable with that? What is the down side of being able to restore
> reliably?
>
> You are right, I don't know "EMC Networker, Veritas Netbackup, HP Data
> Protector", but I'm willing to bet they can restore a directory
> containing *exactly* b.conf. (Am I right?)
>
> Peter

-- 
--Robert

Robert Worreby
Birkenweg 82
CH-3123 Belp
http://counter.li.org

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