p.s. Did you see the article on the possibility that the Universe is conscious? Pretty distinguished supporters.
Frank Wimberly Phone (505) 670-9918 On Jun 20, 2017 9:21 PM, "Frank Wimberly" <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: > No one notified me about a time/place. Maybe they knew I wouldn't yield > on the ineffability of consciousness. > > Maybe knowing everyone dies strengthens the oceanic feeling. > > Frank > > > Frank Wimberly > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > On Jun 20, 2017 9:17 PM, "Nick Thompson" <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> > wrote: > >> Frank, >> >> >> >> The Metaphor group. I thought you were going to go along? >> >> >> >> To you point about uniqueness. It’s odd. Misery does love company, I >> suppose. But, I mean, really? The only reason not to be bummed by not >> being unique, is if the banality of one’s pain suggests a solution. But >> that was ruled out by Glen’s example, wasn’t it? >> >> >> >> I dunno. I never quite know what Glen is on about. But I tended to read >> his response in terms of his cancer. He is saying, “I am comforted by >> knowing that I am not the only man with cancer.” If I were dying of >> cancer, would I be comforted to know that a million other people are dying >> of cancer? >> >> >> >> I am just not sure. >> >> >> >> nIck >> >> >> >> Nicholas S. Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology >> >> Clark University >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank >> Wimberly >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 20, 2017 10:05 PM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >> friam@redfish.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought >> >> >> >> Part of the pain comes from feeling unique in one's defect. >> >> >> >> What happened Monday? >> >> >> >> Frank >> >> >> >> Frank Wimberly >> Phone (505) 670-9918 >> >> >> >> On Jun 20, 2017 8:01 PM, "Nick Thompson" <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> >> wrote: >> >> Frank, >> >> >> >> >> >> I think Glen would reply that minor has all sorts of association that >> provide some predictability. >> >> >> >> I can’t fight every battle in every email >> >> >> >> Yes. And immediately I have felt really stupid for feeling that. How on >> earth could another’s pain meliorate mine! >> >> >> >> What was Monday like? >> >> >> >> N >> >> >> >> Nicholas S. Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology >> >> Clark University >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Frank >> Wimberly >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:45 PM >> *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' < >> friam@redfish.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought >> >> >> >> Nick, >> >> >> >> *[NST==>I suppose that one could argue that any time one writes a >> sentence of the form, A is a B, one has launched into metaphor. <==nst] * >> >> >> >> What about, “every planet in the Solar System that is closer to the Sun >> than Jupiter is a minor planet.” >> >> >> >> Why didn’t you challenge Glen’s use of the phrase “human mind”? >> >> >> >> Haven’t you ever felt, “Wow, if there’s a word for what I am it must not >> be too bad”? >> >> >> >> Frank >> >> >> >> >> >> Frank C. Wimberly >> >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz >> >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> >> >> wimber...@gmail.com wimbe...@cal.berkeley.edu >> >> Phone: (505) 995-8715 Cell: (505) 670-9918 >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Nick >> Thompson >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 20, 2017 7:15 PM >> *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought >> >> >> >> Thanks, Glen, >> >> >> >> Kind of you to respond. >> >> >> >> I will do a bit of larding below. >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> Nicholas S. Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology >> >> Clark University >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <friam-boun...@redfish.com>] >> On Behalf Of glen ? >> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 3:42 PM >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com >> > >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] the role of metaphor in scientific thought >> >> >> >> >> >> Y'all say: >> >> >> >> In http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/2 >> 0170619/f46244d3/attachment-0001.pdf: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > If our analysis is correct, then the distinction between explanation >> >> > and description takes on an entirely new importance in science. >> >> > ... >> >> > The young man thinks, "This is not a unique problem, I am just a >> >> > bachelor," and goes about his business with a happier heart. >> >> > However, such relief is the philosophical equivalent of a placebo, and >> >> > it may be short- lived. Knowing that he is a bachelor tells the young >> >> > man nothing about his predicament that he did not already know. He >> >> > knew that he was unmarried, and that is all that it means to say one is >> a bachelor. Moreover, he has learned nothing that might help him find a >> solution to the problem. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> But, it seems to me that "This is not a unique problem" is THE >> fundamental scientific point. It may be the only thing about science that >> anyone should care about. You even lectured me way back to be careful >> about conflating idiographic vs. NOM-othetic information (emphasis is >> purposeful). Circularity (of description or explanation) is irrelevant. >> What matters is the reproducibility of experiments. It doesn't matter what >> you think happens between the laser and the film. What matters is that it >> does the same thing every time you run the experiment and which changes to >> the experiment cause which changes to the outcome. >> >> *[NST==>Wow, Glen. You are the only person I ever met who successfully >> squeezed positive heuristic out of the bachelor case. Well done!<==nst] * >> >> >> >> >> >> You may notice this is the same sort of criticism I applied to your paper >> about filter explanations. Even _if_ a particular bit of reasoning is >> circular, as long as it's not trivially circular ("flat", "thin", or >> "shallow"), there is information to be gained from examining that _circle_, >> that loop. So, the loop of unmarried <=> bachelor has information in it, >> even if the only information is (as in your example), the guy learns that >> because the condition has another name, perhaps there are other ways of >> thinking about it ... other _circles_ to use. >> >> *[NST==>I assume you would agree that “unmarried because unmarried” is >> perniciously circular. Right? Just checking. <==nst] * >> >> >> >> >> >> Now, if instead of the vagaries of psychology and natural language, you >> were talking in math or logic, even thick loops are more easily reduced to >> their thin ("normalized", "canonical") form. So, we can conclude, the more >> formal the language used to express the circle, the more obvious the >> circle. But you're not talking in or about math or logic. You're talking >> about psychology, human thought, etc. in this paper. And therefore my >> response to you is: >> >> *[NST==>I suppose that one could argue that any time one writes a >> sentence of the form, A is a B, one has launched into metaphor. <==nst] * >> >> >> >> >> >> Are YOU relying too heavily on the (silly) metaphor of computer to >> brain? Software to thought? >> >> *[NST==>I hope not. I HATE that metaphor. <==nst] * >> >> >8^D >> >> >> >> >> >> I'm only on page 7. So, maybe you eventually address this point. >> >> *[NST==>You are one of the few people on the planet to reach page 7. How >> could I cavil!<==nst] * >> >> Sorry if that's the case. >> >> *[NST==>I will be interested to see if the next few pages help in any >> way. * >> >> >> >> *Thanks again, glen<==nst] * >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 06/18/2017 09:46 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: >> >> > FWLIW, The attached PDF is from a book manuscript, pieces of which >> have been kicking around for more than 40 years, which Eric Charles has >> been trying unsuccessfully to get me to pull together into something >> publishable. If any of you is curious, the text will help you to understand >> the things I said in the recent complexity discussion and their relation to >> the “levels” discussion and the metaphor discussion that follows. The >> specific discussion on metaphor is late in the pdf, so that if that is what >> interests you, you can safely skip to the first section on models. For me, >> a model is just a scientific metaphor. Full stop. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > If anybody had comments to share, we, of course, would be deeply >> grateful. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ☣ glen >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
