Nick,
In science, these three terms are generally interchangeable. Their
common usage is that they all describe activities, or "events", that are
"subject to chance". Such activities, events or processes that are
described by these terms are governed by the laws of probability. They
all describe activities, events, or "happenings" whose repetitions do
not always produce the same outcomes even when given the same inputs
every time (initial conditions). In other words, uncertainty is involved.
However, like most words, these enjoy other usage, meanings, as well.
For example "random" is sometimes used to mean "disorganized" or
"lacking in specific pattern". This is a very different meaning than
"activities that don't always produce the same outcome given the same
inputs". Consider what a math formula for each of these tow meanings
wold consist of. One of them would be based on probabilities; but the
other would involve stationary relationships.
On 8/8/17 5:31 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
Grant,
I think I know the answer to this question, but want to make sure:
What is the difference beween calling a process “stochastic”,
“indeterminate”, or “random”?
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/>
*From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Grant
Holland
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 08, 2017 6:51 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
<friam@redfish.com>; glen ☣<geprope...@gmail.com>
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Future of humans and artificial intelligence
Thanks for throwing in on this one, Glen. Your thoughts are
ever-insightful. And ever-entertaining!
For example, I did not know that von Neumann put forth a set theory.
On the other hand... evolution /is/ stochastic. (You actually did not
disagree with me on that. You only said that the reason I was right
was another one.) A good book on the stochasticity of evolution is
"Chance and Necessity" by Jacques Monod. (I just finished rereading it
for the second time. And that proved quite fruitful.)
G.
On 8/8/17 12:44 PM, glen ☣ wrote:
I'm not sure how Asimov intended them. But the three laws is a trope that clearly
shows the inadequacy of deontological ethics. Rules are fine as far as they go. But
they don't go very far. We can see this even in the foundations of mathematics, the
unification of physics, and polyphenism/robustness in biology. Von Neumann (Burks) said
it best when he said: "But in the complicated parts of formal logic it is always one
order of magnitude harder to tell what an object can do than to produce the object."
Or, if you don't like that, you can see the same perspective in his iterative
construction of sets as an alternative to the classical conception.
The point being that reality, traditionally, has shown more expressiveness
than any of our rule sets.
There are ways to handle the mismatch in expressivity between reality
versus our rule sets. Stochasticity is the measure of the extent to which a
rule set matches a set of patterns. But Grant's right to qualify that with
evolution, not because of the way evolution is stochastic, but because
evolution requires a unit to regularly (or sporadically) sync with its
environment.
An AI (or a rule-obsessed human) that sprouts fully formed from Zeus' head
will *always* fail. It's guaranteed to fail because syncing with the
environment isn't *built in*. The sync isn't part of the AI's onto- or
phylo-geny.
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