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[Haifux] Re: using unix page: early draft

mulix
Mon, 17 Sep 2001 00:06:41 -0700

On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Shlomi Fish wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, mulix wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2001, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about "[Haifux] using unix page: early 
>draft":
> > > > In this course the students write two c++ assignments, and one csh
> > > > assignment (right, Alon?)
> > >
> > > Forgive my asking (I guess that everybody here already knows my position on
> > > csh ;)), but why is the Technion still teaching csh?? Csh has been considered
> > > inferior to almost any alternative (ksh, bash, zsh) for at least a decade...
> > > Do they teach csh anywhere else in the world?
> >
> > the technion teaches csh, i suppose, because by the time most students
> > take this course (second semester), the ONLY programming language
> > they've seen is, you guessed it, c. [1]
> >
> > the "common wisdom" says that it's better not to confuse them with a
> > different programming language syntax. an interesting trivia peace is
> > that the csh assignment is considered by far the easiest in the class,
> > and usually takes the least time to complete.
> >
>
> Hello? If C-shell looks like C as much as French looks like English, IMO.
> Sure, they use the same alphabet, but knowledge on one language will give
> you very little help in understanding the other.

if csh is to c as english is to french, bash to c is as english to
arabic. nothing alike, syntax-wise. csh at least LOOKS familiar, which
sure seems like a lot to a frightened freshman.

> I found the bourne shell to have a much better syntax than C-shell, and
> found C-shell to be awfully limiting and illogical. I think the Technion
> should make students get used to learning a new syntax, because there are
> a lot of syntaxes out there.

i think the technion should not be teaching c as a first language, but
rather c++ or even java.
i think (some) technion computer science professors should know what
they are talking about even if it is outside their direct area of
expertise.
i think technion programming excersizes (and tests!) should be more than
an excersize in programming trivia.
i think a lot of things about the technion's way of teaching, and i've
made all of them known to the proper people. did it help? niet.

in contrast, i dont mind the technion teaching csh. it's a useful tool.

> I think that academic studies should teach something that would prove
> useful outside their academic studies. And C-Shell is not useful. I saw
> how in an assignment we were given in "Structure of OSes" (of EE), which

csh is useful. there are a lot of csh scripts out there (who knows how
many of them were written by technion graduates? ;))

bash is useful too. and so is perl. and sed, and awk. and python, my
favorite new langauge.

what's my point? i dont have one. i'm just rambling.

> specifically asked for a C-shell script, two students over-blown their
> script just so they can handle directory names with whitespace. Needless
> to say, in the bourne shell this is a non-issue which can be easily
> solved.

there's always a better tool. so what's your point?
-- 
mulix

http://www.advogato.com/person/mulix
http://www.sf.net/projects/syscalltrack



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