[LUTE] Re: Mille Ducas

[Anthony Hind]

Hello Martin
	You are obviously correct. I did not look at any other pieces except  
the Susato which I chanced upon with a Google search.
I sent the actual PDF piece to Stephen, but could not do the same for  
the whole list, so I just sent the link to the page itself.
I am glad that you were able to look more closely and find this  
problem so as to warn others. They can then do what they want with the
link to other pieces, with the warning you have given them.

This again is perhaps a web type problem (along with its more  
positive aspects) one might tend to think that what one finds is well  
documented and
complete, but we do all know this is frequently not the case, and  
texts are put up without the sort of proof reading that goes into a  
publication.
We are back with Rob's message line, I think.
Anthony


Le 19 avr. 08 à 11:02, Peter Martin a écrit :

Hello Anthony,

My rather intemperate comments weren't specifically about Susato,  
which I
would imagine doesn't have a lute part anyway, but about the way in  
which
the lute part has been simply left out from the many pieces which  
*do* have
one - Dowland songs, Lachrimae etc -  which I find a huge shame.

Many of the other pieces in the Hendricks collection have been  
rewritten,
for example the four-part Arbeau settings - the originals have just  
a melody
- and the consort lessons.  I don't know who the SCA are, and of  
course they
can do what they like in arranging music for their dances, but we  
should be
cautious in using this material.

P


On 19/04/2008, Anthony Hind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Thanks Wayne for your help which seems to have clarified the  
issue. I am
sure this article would be of interest to Stephen K. also.

David, there seems to have been much scholarly discussion on the  
issue of
his birth place, so there is good reason for there to have been  
doubts.
Your supposition was entirely logical, and this obliged me to look  
for
clarification, and with Wayne's help, a likely good conclusion.
I  for one learnt something in the process.

However, for a moment, thinking about the recent subject raised by  
Rob, I
wondered whether I had been the victim of bad Web reporting that I  
had taken
for granted.
Already, Peter Martin told me that I had sent Stephen K. a  
"bowdlerized"
lute-neutered version of Mille Ducas (although, to be fair, it was  
the only
one I found), and
then I feared I had further lead the list astray. It is always  
best to
check and recheck, and to add a note of caution in a message when  
one is not
fairly certain of the facts,
I just sent the quote, without the note of caution, so in that I  
was also
both right and wrong. Fortunately it seems we have come nearer to  
the facts,
until further research, perhaps
puts this in question again.
Best wishes to all
Anthony

Le 19 avr. 08 =E0 02:21, wayne cripps a ecrit :

Hi Anthony -

 The article s long, and a series f jpegs, but this covers Susato's
birth..

       Wayne


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23.tif.gif><dtc.24.tif.gif>
On Apr 18, 2008, at 7:17 PM, Anthony Hind wrote:


Le 19 avr. 08 =E0 00:50, LGS-Europe a ecrit :

 Susato was born in  Cologne


I read he was born is Soest (The Netherlands), hence his name.


David you may well be correct, but I saw this.
JSTOR: New Documents on the Life of Tielman Susato, Sixteenth ...
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3687153
New evidence confirms that Tielman Susato was born in Cologne or  
its
environs, in about 1515, as the son of another Tielman. Three
documents can be cited to ...

and

JSTOR: The Cantus-Firmus Chansons of Tylman Susato
http://www.jstor.org/pss/830473 - [ Traduire cette page ]
Finally, we shall attempt to determine the extent of Gervaise's
stylistic debt to Susato. Tylman Susato,2 who was probably born in
Cologne, settled in Ant- ...

There are people born in England called French, it is no  
guarantee of
their origin, and the father who could have been born in Soest,  
might
have moved to Cologne.
However, I don't know. These articles look serious, but I have  
no way
of accessing them. Do check what they have to say, and let us know.
Anthony


David


****************************
David van Ooijen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.davidvanooijen.nl
****************************



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