Mark Wheeler
Thu, 01 May 2008 12:43:58 -0700
Wow Chris it seems you are a real 19th century man, all these nice simple
compartments for music - Art Music, Folk Music etc
I personally don't think that any of these compartments work for music from
the 16th century or for music of the 21st century.
I find your criticisms of rock music interesting as "memorizing finger
patterns and shapes" is probably how renaissance lutenists learnt their art.
Treble and Grounds were the "How to play rock solo guitar" of the 16th
century. Plus exchange 12 bar blues for passingmeasures and was John Danyel
losing it when he wrote a passingmeasures galliard at the start of the 17th
century. How could he!!!
Even "a handful of strung-together clichés" sounds like quite a few
renaissance pieces we all enjoy playing.
Could you please quote which piece of rock music features this over-used
riff..
I enjoy a wide range of music and my music compartments are many and
constantly expanding....
All the best
Mark
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. Mai 2008 20:42
An: 'howard posner'; 'Lute Net'; Mark Wheeler
Betreff: [!! SPAM] [LUTE] Re: gnu piece of the month
Mark,
--- On Thu, 5/1/08, Mark Wheeler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> My problem was with the following passage...
>
> "Music was even more important 500 years ago, only it was played by real
> people as a part of daily life."
>
> I am not sure how we can say music was more important 500 years ago.
But art music - music that enjoyed a high degree of subtlety and
sophistication in its composition and execution - was much more important,
at least among the cultured. Nowadays, even the so-called "cultured" know
very little about music's structural basis (I use this in the broadest sense
as it applies to all of the aspects of music including melody, harmonic
movement, form, etc.) and mainly rely on what their peer group tells them is
good music in order for them to know what they like.
Many people with a great deal of money prefer the Classics, but this to
them mostly means the Great 19th-Century Composers. This is because its
fashionable to been seen at Symphony Hall on Saturday nights, not because
they're discerning. Those with a bit less money than the Old Rich will
prefer a Pops concert, believing that because what they heard is played on
flutes and violins, it is Classy High Art. So on down the monetary ladder.
This is why we have philosophers and other great minds of our day
listening to the Rolling Stones. And today's artists? Visual artists are
often the worst offenders, zealously believing in whatever horridly effete
rock-like claptrap their fellow non-conformist (read: "ultra-conformist")
colleagues tell them expresses the true meaning of their tortured and
pathetically misunderstood poetic souls.
There are many exceptions, of course, but this is unfortunately true for
the majority of people.
> As far as I know rock music is played by real people and thousands of >
people
> go and see rock musicians perform as part of their daily life.
Yes, but rock music is really folk music, learned by aping a handful of
strung-together cliches passed down in much the same comfortable form from
one generation to the next. Most rock guitarists learn their craft by
memorizing finger patterns and shapes. Rock music is on it way out, though,
currently being in its last unimaginative stage. ("Wow, another song based
on a pentatonic minor lick in 2008! That's mindblowingly creative.")
> As far as musical education goes, the modern conservatory system
> (invented in the 19th century) was certainly very different to the
> musical
> education in the 16th century. The nature of the modern system is by its >
very name their to conserve, it can make nice jam, but it often doesn't >
taste the real fruit :)
I agree mostly with what you say about the conservatories. But who's fault
is it that conservatory students are unimaginative - the training or the
students? Just because you learned in school that the only "proper" way to
end a piece was with a V7-I cadence doesn't mean you have to do it in your
own music. And just because you never had a class in improvisation doesn't
mean you don't already know how to do it. Quite the contrary, in fact.
Chris
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: howard posner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. Mai 2008 19:00
An: Lute Net
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: gnu piece of the month
On May 1, 2008, at 9:50 AM, Mark Wheeler wrote:
> To play the devil's advocate..
>
> I doubt if music for the average 21st century teenager is any less
> important
> than it was in 15??. I don't think they would see it as merely an
> "extra".
Ron's point is that everyone in some levels of renaissance European
society was trained to produce music, rather than merely consume it.
Big difference.
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