[LUTE] Re: Frets

[Anthony Hind]

Dear Martyn
	Although the book by Lundberg  "Historical Lute Construction", gives  
the explanation I copied, I don't think that "Historical Lute" in the  
title means historical technique as concerns fret tying.
The Dowland indications you give are interesting, but I see there is  
no difference between Fret 1 and fret 2, if taken literally (but  
perhaps it is meant to be a guide, not to be taken absolutely  
literally).

You are advocating a low action with a first fret of around 0,70,  
perhaps modern fretting (which seems to be higher) is influenced by  
other modern instruments, or determined by modern strings.

Lundberg only considers high and low action as an element in choosing  
fret height. Could string tension and string-type also play a role in  
deciding the fret height. Loaded strings, and some Venice types, are  
very supple and tend to have a wide movement,could this not effect  
choice of fret height, also? (I just quoted Lundberg, hoping his  
experience might be of use to others, but I have not had cause to try  
out the advice he gives).

 I certainly do not as yet have practise in fretting different  
instruments with different string types. Obviously, a lute maker will  
be confronted with lutes having high to low actions and varied string  
types, so i would expect you to have experience in this area that I  
don't have at all.
Thanks for any additional clarification on this subject.

I am just thinking that for most of us, single fretting is already a  
fretful exercise (sorry) but double fretting would have to give a  
very clear advantage to make me go to the extra effort and cost.
However, if there really is an advantage in it, perhaps I would try.
Regards
Anthony


following.

Le 11 mai 08 à 16:39, Martyn Hodgson a écrit :


Dear Anthony,

The only early source which gives comprhensive and detailed fret  
sizes is, as far as I'm aware, John Dowland's 'OTHER NECESSARIE  
Observations....' Varietie (1610). Here Dowland relates fret sizes  
to strings of the lute:

Fret 1 and 2: countertenor ie 4th course

3 and 4: as Great Meanes ie 3rd

5 and 6: as Small Meanes ie 2nd

7, 8 and 9: as Trebles ie 1st

You'll see that this gives much thinner frets than most commonly  
use today. It also enables a lute to be set very 'fine' with very  
low distance from the fingerboard even at the highest frets.

Interestingly, larger lutes (with as is said elsewhere ought to  
have thicker strings) will have thicker frets.

Of course, the sizes depend on the precise stringing but I can't  
see any reasonable stringing on a mean lute requiring a first of  
0.70mm.

MH

--- On Sun, 11/5/08, Anthony Hind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Anthony Hind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Frets
To: "Bruno Correia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu  
Net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Sunday, 11 May, 2008, 10:42 AM
Lundberg in his Historical Lute Construction says the
following.

"The eight frets on a Renaissance lute are generally
arranged so that
they descend in diameter towards the body. I would
typically use the
following diameters:

Fret 1  1.00mm
Fret 2   0.90mm
Fret 3- 0.85mm
Fret 4  0,82mm
Fret 5- 0.79mm
Fret 6- 0.76mm
Fret 7- 0.73mm
Fret 8- 0.70mm

However, gut varies, so don't worry about being really
exact. The
main points to consider are that the first fret shoudl be
large, the
second fret should drop considerably in diameter, and each
of the
rest should be about .03mm smaller than the preceding.
        If the lute has a very high action, that is, if the height
of the
strings above the fingerboard at the neck/body join is, for
example,
in the vicinity of 5mm, then it would be better to tie on
frets of a
more constant size or even the same size. If on the other
hand, the
action is low, then a larger 1st fret together with a
bigger drop
between frets and ending with a .66mm might help."

This book is well worth having for its very reasonable
price.
Regards
Anthony




Le 11 mai 08 à 05:17, Bruno Correia a écrit :

With so many gauges fretting the lute become quite
expensive...
What about
using te same gauge from the 4th until the last? Would
you have a
photo from
your lute with the fretting described below? I wish I
could see it
to try
myself.

Thanks.



2008/5/10 The Other <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Using Thomas Mace's method of tying double
frets; locking forceps to
pull the frets tight enough; Dan Larson fret gut;
in One Quarter
Comma
Meantone Temperament, with two 1st frets instead
of using a tastini.

Fret 1a (peg box side)- 1.00mm
Fret 1b (bridge side)- 0.95mm
Fret 2- 0.95mm  (yes, same size as Fret 1b)
Fret 3- 0.90mm
Fret 4- 0.85mm
Fret 5- 0.80mm
Fret 6- 0.75mm
Fret 7- 0.70mm
Fret 8- 0.65mm

No buzzing.

Regards,
"The Other" Stephen Stubbs.




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