[LUTE] Re: New Baroque lute/Meantone

[Anthony Hind]

Thanks David
	I will set up my tuner for 6th comma on a root of A, this afternoon,  
and then go ahead.
I am only want to try out the lute so I really dont care about being  
precise, so long as I do no
damage and it sounds more or less in tune.
Best wishes
Anthony


Le 17 juin 08 à 13:14, LGS-Europe a écrit :

Dear Anthony

Forget the details.

If you're happy with your top string a little lower than whatever  
(i.e. just
below breaking point), but some table (i. e. mine) says that for  
some particular flavour
of some particular temperament (i.e. 1/6 meantone) your top string  
should be
a little higher (i.e. g has to be 3.3 cents higher) and you're unsure
whether it's a good idea for the string in question, the obvious  
thing to do is to tune down
everything 3.3 cents. Or put your tuner at a slightly lower
pitch, of course. It's the same difference, as our American friends  
tend to say.

G = + 3.3 cents is not an absolute value. It's in relation to A = +  
0 cents.
So, if G = + 0 cents then A = - 3.3 cents. It's just a matter of  
convenience
to use A = 0 cents, because many of us (me included) are slightly  
dim-witted
when it comes to basic math, and we like to keep things easy to  
understand.

Lately I had to play Silbermann 'with the C as tonal centre because  
of the
keys of the pieces in the programme, but the wolf was to be between  
Eb and
G# anyway'. I am quoting more or less verbatim from the man in  
charge. Stuff
and nonsense. What it means is that we were about 5 cents below  
tuning fork,
that's all. He meant C = 0 cents difference from ET. He
could have said A = a little lower (whatever 5 cents comes to).  
Some people
like to tune with C = 0 cents deviation from ET, don't know why.

Anyway, for lutes, these are such small deviations in pitch,  
resulting in even
smaller deviations in tension. Nothing to worry about.

Forget the details.

David


----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Hind"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:49 AM
Subject: [LUTE] New Baroque lute/Meantone


Dear lutists
Another very basic question about Meantone tuning. As we have taken
on board the idea that the 'old ones' first tuned the top string to
breaking point and then tuned up the other strings in relation to
that (I know this is probably not necessarily true, in particular for
Baroque lute).
However, taking that idea on board, if we consider that the top
string on a modern G lute is generally strung so as to be played at G
(LA 440Hz) and that the top string is chosen to be near breaking
point at G, do we have to be careful about adding the small per cents
that we sometimes have to add for particular 6th comma tunings.
I imagine these differences are so small (e.g. 3;3% in D. v. O's
table) that this could only matter if we took the notion of "up to
breaking point" too literally.

Now, I have just received my new 11c lute, and it is quite splendid,
but I was told by Stephen Gottlieb by mail that it had been set up
with the frets in 6th comma. I just want to tune it up to try it, and
I am not worried about acheiving the right 6th comma for the
particular tonality of any specific piece. In which 6th comma variant
would a Baroque lute most likely to have been tuned? The strings are
new (only three days on the instrument, so they have obviously gone
quite far out of tune and don't give any indication, except the
possible 410Hz diapason.

I would like to set my Turbo tuner with one of these, at least to
have a rapid but safe tune up. (I have a feeling the lute has been
tuned to LA 410, although LA 392 might be better for a 70cm lute to
save the top strings).
I know, I should do this by ear, but with a new lute, and never
having played an 11c, well ....
So should I go for 1/6th Comma Meantone with an Equally Tempered Root
of A, or C. I am thinking the frets have probably been set with one
variant in mind.

Petersen Chart:
Here are the offsets for 1/6th Comma Meantone where A=440Hz:

[b][i]Note_____Offset[/i][/b]
C________+04.9
C#_______-06.4
D________+01.7
Eb_______+09.8
E________-01.6
F________+06.5
F#_______-04.9
G________+03.3
Ab_______-08.2
A________-00.0
Bb_______+08.1
B________-03.2

1/6th Comma Meantone with an Equally Tempered Root of C:

[i][b]Note_____Offset[/b][/i]
C________+00.0
C#_______-11.3
D________-03.2
Eb_______+04.9
E________-06.5
F________+01.6
F#_______-09.8
G________-01.6
Ab_______-13.1
A________-04.9
Bb_______+03.2
B________-08.1

This from D.v.O. be better, actually it appears indicate a root of A,
http://home.planet.nl/~d.v.ooijen/david/writings/ 
meantone_p_bestanden/
silbermann.JPG

I am tempted to go for the root of A, simply because both the above
include this, but F is +06,5% (ok that can't do any harm to the top
string, can it?)

I am going to contact Stephen to check, but I am a little impatient,
having already thoroughly photographed it.
Regards
Anthony
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