> .I would have never thought a string would > go flat in higher positions it is usually the opposite.
I’ve seen it happen regularly on my top string or 4th octave when an older style nylgut (the white ones) has been on for a long time*. Usually after 7 months I have to decide whether to move the 5th and 7th frets up for the chanterelle or down for the long-in-the-tooth 2nd or 3rd gut courses. I wonder if over time the plastic stretching eventually increases toward the center of the string (or one of the ends) — but the opposite for gut strings. Sean * 0.42 mm on a 60cm mensur at G (440) On Feb 28, 2017, at 7:05 PM, fournierbru <fournier...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well that would mean I have to slant the frets to make the fundamental > sharper and in tune inthose positions ..which will render the octave > horribly sharp and the put the tasting below the octave string to lower > it...because it is in fact the loaded nylgut fundamental which goes > flat as you go up the neck...I would have never thought a string would > go flat in higher positions it is usually the opposite. > > Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network. > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Miles Dempster <miles.demps...@gmail.com> > Date: 2017-02-28 9:48 PM (GMT-05:00) > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [LUTE] Re: basses in octaves > > Actually there is another solution to this. You'll probably all think > that I am crazy, but I'll suggest it anyway since it is used by some > guitar makers when crafting the nut, and might be applicable to lutes. > On my classical guitar (yes, I confess that I do actually play one > occasionally...) I find that the biggest tuning ‘problem' is the 3rd > (thickest nylon) string. It's the one that tends to be a little sharp. > You get the instrument perfectly in tune for a C major chord only to > find that the G sharp of an E major chord is too sharp, and so on as > you go up the 3rd string. > I solved the problem by putting a small tastino about 1/8th inch in > front of the nut. In fact its a bit of a toothpick wedged under the > string. What is does is shorten the distance from the nut to the frets, > so that all the fretted notes will be flattened slightly (compared to > the other strings). > On a lute with double courses, you could do the same for the string > (whether it be the fundamental or the octave) which goes sharper that > the other. > Best > Miles >> On Feb 28, 2017, at 8:53 PM, fournierbru <fournier...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Getting exact same tension between fundamental and octave is next > to >> impossible and ludicrous. Of course that wouldn't have been a >> possibility In the Renaissance and lutes must certainly have been > out >> of tune..but our modern ear wants otherwise. My strings are not > THAT >> much different in tension..the elasticity of the loaded nylgut is > the >> main culprit..my options are going back to wound on the courses in >> octaves that are on the fingerboard or go for unions and adjust the >> frets. >> >> BRUNO >> >> Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network. >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Dan Winheld <dwinh...@lmi.net> >> Date: 2017-02-28 8:07 PM (GMT-05:00) >> To: Miles Dempster <miles.demps...@gmail.com>, > lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: basses in octaves >> >> On 2/28/2017 4:06 PM, Miles Dempster wrote: >> "Maybe it could help if the octave is closer in tension to the >> fundamental." >> Bingo!- Miles wins. It became a custom to string lutes with > absurdly >> slack octaves early in the lute re-Renaissance, as they were >> functionally useless; the overspun basses already being so overly > heavy >> on the harmonics. Until we started seriously playing with gut > basses we >> didn't even actually know the true purpose of the octave strings. > (I >> know I didn't!) We now know that the gut octaves must be the same >> tension as the fundamentals for the whole system to work sonically > & >> intonationally. >> But if those new ones really are going flat going up the neck, > yes >> that's a deal breaker on any fingered bass courses. I have not yet >> tried the new CD loadeds- it sure seems counter intuitive that the >> thick string would go flat as it frets up the fingerboard (if it is > not >> false!). Too flexible- very interesting- are we stringing to > loosely? I >> remember attempting to use thick, stiff, low twist harp strings > back in >> the 1970's for lute basses- what a disaster! >> Any other experiences from players using these? Not willing to pull > the >> trigger yet for 7 B-lute bass strings and 4 10 course lute bass > strings >> until this is sorted out. >> Dan >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >
