EDWARD JACKSON
Sun, 08 Nov 2009 23:42:37 -0800
And I love Harste...though I rather feel like swearing just thinking of him. I
remember the first time I saw him at a conference--he swore like a trooper and
made me laugh as hard as he made me think.
Lori Jackson M.Ed.Reading Specialist
Broken Bow, NE
EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 01:55:31 +0000
> From: jvma...@comcast.net
> To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Theme/author's message
>
> Lovely, Bev, just lovely! Thanks for saying it ever so much better than I
> did.
> Judy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beverlee Paul" <beverleep...@gmail.com>
> To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group"
> <mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2009 4:37:06 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Theme/author's message
>
> In my opinion, this is a PERFECT example of what's wrong with some current
> educational movements, especially the extre,e standards, objective, and RTI
> movements right now. We used to have scholars such as Jerry Harste who
> simply refused to "make easy" what is actually hard and trying to pin things
> down with ease distorted what was actually being said and what could be
> said. I've always liked his phrase "mucking around" when I think of
> inquiry. Also related to this line of thinking is the "uncertainty
> principle". Our profession has become (through forces not always within our
> control) adept at Naming Things. We want to come to an easy answer quickly
> and "come to consensus." We are becoming intolerant of messy thinking,
> reflection, and things that just take time. I wish we could have a little
> dose of Piaget right now. If only he could come back, look and listen, and
> try to pin things down without destroying them, I'd love to see it. I don't
> think he'd be proud of us. Even though assimilate and accommodate do name
> thinking, it's not narrowed. For evidence of that, see how difficult it is
> for people to do other than recite a definition. It's so hard to help
> college students understand these terms and many never do. Even the ones
> that do seem to need high-level review if they are away from thinking about
> them a bit.
>
> Not everything can be skewered and mounted in a "butterfly" collection of
> terms such as author's purpose and theme. Thank God, I say. And this is
> precisely why I read this list. I have others to help me understand
> without "compliance." Most people who post on this list have become
> tolerant of the lack of easy and SIMPLE answers and are willing to struggle
> with a meaning invented and used by them. (even though I suppose
> there really isn't anything new under the sun.)
>
> Now, I have to happily unmuddy the waters a bit.--or muddy them, depending
> on your point of view, I guess. What was Ellin Keene's purpose for writing
> To Understand? If we can articulate that, we are a long ways along the road
> of understanding understanding. And I'm sure there are some who have put
> the book aside because it is neither easy nor quick to comprehend and
> apply. What it is, is a brilliant articulation of putting theory into
> practice in the complicated, messy, challenging, and thrilling real world.
> Her "multiple choices items" on tests don't have A-D. They go much farther
> than that. Or possibly her multiple choice answers are A, B, C, D (all of
> the above), or E (some of the above, but we're still figuring out which), or
> F(not all of the above, but it will take more work to figure out which).
>
> And what happens to the teachers who are okay with, and challenged by,
> discussions to help each other develop deep understanding -- when they're
> forced to "teach" some programs, many of which remind me of Catechism
> questions and answers, or the chanting of the beautiful, ancient rituals in
> some churches (which at least helps us . Memorizing that E=MC squared
> doesn't get us much further toward understanding. I really do wish Piaget
> were here. My limited understanding of him would say that we in American
> education today have been forced to articulate thinking in such a narrow way
> that it's been rendered nearly useless.
>
> But, you know, I'm not blaming us. It's been done to us. Maybe. Ellin
> wouldn't have struggled to understand understanding ("Ya'all say that, but
> you never say what that means...") if she had given up on us all. She
> believes we can do it. And believe me, I do know firsthand what it can cost
> us as teachers. But if we don't do it, think what it costs our students.
>
> Hmmmm. Extended thinking to follow.
> Bev P.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 3:12 PM, <jvma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> And I'll muddy the waters further. I tell my students that these are terms
>> readers have invented to make it easier to think about and discuss
>> literature. I doubt you'll find a talented writer who decides on message
>> and/or theme as organizational tools. I recently heard John Irving explain
>> how story invents itself. I've heard that Barbara Kingsolver has a sign
>> above her monitor reminding her "Don't preach." I think we need to be
>> careful about superimposing structure on creative work. I like the previous
>> comment (was it Lori?) about making meaning for ourselves as individual
>> readers. IMHO, we teach kids these terms not because there is one correct
>> answer, but to help them delve into text, to think about their reading, and
>> to discuss it with meaning.
>> JMO,
>> Judy
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: cnjpal...@aol.com
>> To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
>> Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2009 10:31:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Theme/author's message
>>
>>
>> Maura
>> Now I will muddy the waters a bit...our district says the author's purpose
>> is one of three things...she writes to inform, to entertain or to
>> persuade. Authors message and theme are used interchangeably.
>> Jennifer
>> In a message dated 11/8/2009 1:02:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> mimos...@comcast.net writes:
>>
>> This inquiry was perfectly timed for me. Next week we will be focusing on
>> the author's purpose and then finishing up the book and learning about
>> theme. I am interested on hearing what others think about these topics!
>> Maura
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> "There is nothing so unequal as equal treatment of unequals." Chief
> Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
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