Sure, you have to be careful. Ketosis is a natural state, you are born in 
Ketosis and you often wake up in Ketosis. Being an insulin dependent diabetic 
is probably not normal. (ie its a disease. Something isn't working right). But 
back before people had insulin to inject, the way to treat diabetes was through 
diet alone. Nowdays people don't want to change their precious delicious 
highcarb diets so the doctors give out insulin so they don't have to. It would 
be like giving a kid with a peanut alergy an Epipen and say here you go. heres 
a plate of peanuts, go crazy.


I have heard people with diabetes can iron out the volatile sugar spikes in 
their blood by going LCHF. A less reactive blood sugar levels has to be easier 
to keep right. Not being diabetic, I don't know first hand. It's true everyone 
are different. But we are all chemical machines.

________________________________
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on behalf 
of mike smith <meski...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 20 June 2017 1:36:18 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

Ketogenisis is too close to ketoaccidosis[1]  for someone with insulin 
dependent diabetes to want to try.  But if you don't, then sure :)


Vegan diets, I suspect work because you have to monitor what you eat to get a 
balanced diet.

Avoid sugar?  I do that.  Also 'empty carbs'   It's unlikely you can lose 
weight through exercise alone.    If you're on this list, you're a coder, not a 
brickie/labourer. :)


Mike


[1] you even measure it the same way!!


On 20 Jun. 2017 2:33 pm, "Bec C" 
<bec.usern...@gmail.com<mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I'd have to respectfully disagree. Tried it and lost weight.

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price 
<step...@lythixdesigns.com<mailto:step...@lythixdesigns.com>> wrote:
Nope.

If you cut calories and have any carbs in your system then you will have 
insulin in your system and your body will be in storing mode. Impossible to 
lose ANY weight if you are only storing.

To bring it back on topic for the list it would be like being only able to 
append records to a database table and not be able to delete. If you can never 
delete then its impossible to make the table smaller.

Insulin = store only.

It's hormonal not caloric. You would put weight on if your lower calories were 
high carb/sugars. Try it.

On 20 Jun. 2017 12:01 pm, Bec C <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:
Never said a calorie is a calorie. Anyway try it, cut calories by like 300-500 
a day and you will lose weight.

Anyway this post was about sit stand desks...

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com> wrote:
'As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories'

Read The Case Against Sugar or Pure White and Deadly, or watch That Sugar Film, 
or The Men That Made Us Fat. They all make the point that the basic 
biochemistry (which is well established) absolutely disagrees with this. Fat, 
glucose and fructose all have very different pathways for metabolism, which 
makes a lie of the 'calorie is a calorie' mantra (itself accused of being an 
invention of the sugar industry). In That Sugar Film (admittedly a sample size 
of one) he puts on significant weight without changing total calorific intake, 
by swapping fat for sugar (and explains why).

I take everything I read highly skeptically, but in particular The Case Against 
Sugar is very comprehensively argued and well worth reading. The historical 
context is particularly damming.

On 20 Jun. 2017 08:53, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:
You can be an idiot on any diet. I wouldn't believe everything you read either. 
I've seen studies that totally contradict each other.

Just for the record I'm not actually vegan. I tried it a few years ago.

As far as losing weight goes it is all about calories. Being healthy is a whole 
different thing.

Anyway too off topic now

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com> wrote:
OOTT: At the risk of starting a flame war, I'm going to call shenanigans on 
this one (sorry Bec). Whilst most vegans probably have very healthy diets (due 
to increased awareness of what they eat) there's nothing inherent in veganism 
that actually ensures this, as a quick scan down the vegan society pages 
confirms: https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/lifestyle/food-and-drink. 
Plenty of sugary treats in that list described as vegan, even beans on toast is 
packed with the stuff.

It's *not* about the calories. 
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin

OOTT= off off-topic topic

On 20 Jun. 2017 06:29, "Bec C" <bec.usern...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yep that podcast is fairly good. Veganism also works for losing weight, very 
hard to eat excess calories on a vegan diet.

On Tuesday, 20 June 2017, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com> wrote:
Totally agree on this point. I've been ketogenic for six months now (lost 6kg 
in the first month, have plateaued now but feel great). Some .net people may 
know Carl Franklin's been podcasting at 2ketodudes.com<http://2ketodudes.com>, 
and he's done an awesome job recording his progress. 6 months and he lost 80lb 
and is no longer type 2 diabetic.
Got so much out of it, I backed his kickstarter project to turn his town keto 
for a weekend. Flying out with my wife in a couple of weeks. Will be seeing the 
sights in New York, then up to New London for ketofest.
Btw, you don't have to be over weight to suffer the damaging effects of too 
much carbs/sugar. The inflammatory damage in your veins can't be seen from the 
outside.

One of the strange side effects I have noticed is that some days I forget to 
eat. Today, I had accidentally turned off my alarm so was running a bit late. 
Went to work with no breakfast, had one coffee at work, and worked right 
through lunch as I hadn't taken anything and office is a bit of a drive from 
places to eat. Barely noticed.
Don't miss sugar. Finding some awesome recipes along the way. Recently made 
deep fried chicken crumbed in pork rinds combined with Parmesan cheese.
So good. Hmm... this might possibly be the first recipe shared on this elist. :)

Anyway to keep on topic, had a standup desk and my last project, one of those 
motorised ones. Great for exercise and strengthening but not losing weight. 
What you put in your body has way more effect in that regard.  You can lose 
weight with zero exercise, but exercise is important for other reasons. I.e. 
Preventing muscles wasting away. If you don't use it, you lose it.

Cheers,
Stephen
________________________________
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on behalf 
of Piers Williams <piers.willi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 8:46:35 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Sit/stand desk results

There are quite a few people in my office now using sit-to-stand desks. I sent 
a scary article around about a year or so ago about the health issues, but I 
think it's mostly the availability of reasonable quality converters (Varidesk 
etc) that's really changed things.

I'm between offices too much to have one myself (I'd need 3), so I just 
concentrate on having a regular walk around the office instead, and having all 
meetings as stand ups. And - on the insulin front - be sure to read up on (and 
cut down on) the sugar that's crammed into everything these days.

On 19 Jun. 2017 14:33, "Tony Wright" <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,

No, not the back for me. They say that your body stops regulating insulin 
properly after 4 hours of sitting, and that's about when I was feeling 
unwell/lethargic from sitting.

Regards,
Tony

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com> wrote:
Did you switch to this for a specific reason (lower back problem for example)? 
If so did this help at all in a noticeable way?


On Monday, 19 June 2017, Tony Wright <tonyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,

It changes for me. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit. If I feel that I've been 
sitting for too long, I hit the buttons and stand for a while. I'm not 
regretful for one second that I have the option.

Regards,
Tony

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Tom Rutter <therut...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey folks

I recall a while ago discussion into sit/stand desks and was interested in how 
people went with this setup. Did those that tried standing get any good (or 
bad) results? Are they still doing it or went back to only sitting?

Cheers



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