Szelog, Mike
Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:06:17 -0700
Imad, Thanks for the excellent explanation!
To add to it, the short month was known to the Egyptians as "the five days over the year". I'll check on the translation of wpt and get back to the list. Rnpt is, of course the Coptic "rompi" - remember that in Egyptian, the feminine marker of nouns came at the end of the word, thus: rnp.t would be a better rendition. This "t" in the later language (when the concept of the definite article came into usage in Egyptian) shifted to the front of the word and became the feminine definite article "ti" as in ti-rompi. I suspect that even though Egyptians wrote it as rNp.t, because of the 'p' right after the 'n', the 'n' was assimilated in speech to 'm'. Coptic simply wrote it phonetically and thus the 'n' was "lost", but it's exactly the same word. Mike S -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 10 September, 2004 10:52 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [RemEnKimi] Nowruz Dear Mike and Jo, I think the use of the Persian Nowruz word to name the Coptic New Year was most probably a choice made by the Copts who were, in the 10th to 13th centuries, engaged in Arabic translation of Coptic literature. They most probably did not find any equivalent word in Arabic, which reflected a primitive culture in such matters as those of celebrating New Year. The Persians dominated life to a large extent in the Arab occupied area since 750 AD when the Abbassids came to power. They most probably came with their more advanced culture and the celebration of Nowruz in spring. The Copts as you know do not celebrate their New Year in spring (the vernal equinox in the fourth century was fixed on 21 March = 25 Baramhat) but on I tut which is equivalent to 29/30 August Julian. They celebrate their New Year in Summer rather than spring. This same day coincided traditionally with the heliacal rising of Sopdet(Sirius) and the beginning of the inundation. The ancient Egyptian word for New Year is "wpt-rnpt" in fact: allowing any vowel in between these consonants does not give anything similar to the Coptic "pi iklom ente trompi," 'the crown of the year, except perhaps for the word 'rnpt' which sounds like 'rompi', year. It would be interesting to know the meaning of the Hieroglyphic word âwptâ. I think the 'crown of the year' is exact ecclesiastical Coptic equivalent to the phase in Judaism for New Year. It seems then that the Copts, when they started using Arabic, translated their words into the equivalent in their rulersâ language, whether it was Arabic or Persian. It is a shame. This reminds me of something which I regard as even more shameful: the fact that when the Copts started speaking Arabic they used for their "ipchoic" and "ifnoti" the Arabic 'Rabb' and 'Allah' which are as you know are strongly Koranic. I wish they continued to use ipchoic and ifnoti even when talking in Arabic. The difference is not only lingual, it is more than that: the attributes of the Christian God, very well reserved in the Coptic words and literature for God and Lord, were lost to a large degree on using the words 'rabb' and 'Allah' which usually come pregnant with their Islamic connotation. Imad ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/GP4qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links ----------------------------------------- Use of email is inherently insecure. Confidential information, including account information, and personally identifiable information, should not be transmitted via email, or email attachment. In no event shall Citizens or any of its affiliates accept any responsibility for the loss, use or misuse of any information including confidential information, which is sent to Citizens or its affiliates via email, or email attachment. Citizens does not guarantee the accuracy of any email or email attachment, that an email will be received by Citizens or that Citizens will respond to any email. This email message is confidential and/or privileged. It is to be used by the intended recipient only. Use of the information contained in this email by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and promptly destroy any record of this email. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/GP4qlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RemEnKimi/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/