Send sanskrit mailing list submissions to
sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
sanskrit-requ...@cs.utah.edu
You can reach the person managing the list at
sanskrit-ow...@cs.utah.edu
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of sanskrit digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction (Anand Mishra)
2. Re: [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
(r_vani ramakrishnan)
3. Re: [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
(r_vani ramakrishnan)
4. Re: [Bulk] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
(r_vani ramakrishnan)
5. L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma' (Venkatesh)
6. Re: [L2] Translation request (was: help needed) (Manuel Batsching)
7. Re: [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
(Karthikeyan Madathil)
8. Re: [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
(Krishnanand Mankikar)
9. Re: [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction (Ajit Krishnan)
10. Re: [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction (Anand Mishra)
11. Re: L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma' (horacio vaj)
12. Re: L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma' (kamalesh pathak)
13. Re: [L2] Translation request (was: help needed) (kamalesh pathak)
14. Re: FW: [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
(Sai Susarla)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:37:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: Anand Mishra <anand...@yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <10264.74652...@web27506.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
As I understand, Sanskrit grammarians don't worry about scripts.
Devanagari, Sharada, Roman script, whatever -- that does not affect a
grammatical rule.
>>True. Grammatical rule is independent of any script.<<
So I am curious to know why roman script would be better than
devanagari for grammatical purposes.
>>Let us say roman script is more convenient for representation of grammatical
>>entities and processes. The reason is that many a times a grammatical
>>operation is applied to a sound unit (phoneme) and devanAgarI has a syllable
>>as its unit. Take for example the representation of kRt suffix khamuJ. Here
>>the first and the last consonants are it-markers and the second vowel is for
>>the sake of pronounciation (uccAraNArtha). So we can easily write this
>>information e.g. like this: (kh)am[u](J) where ( ) means an it-marker and [ ]
>>means uccAraNArtha. The same of course can be written in devanAgarI. But you
>>have to break the syllables using halanta and then write it. Another
>>advantage is in algorithmic processing of the grammatical rules. It is clumsy
>>to represent one sound unit, let us say the consonant 'k' using two (or more)
>>character-codes, One for the 'consonant+a' and then another for indicating
>>that the vowel 'a' should not be read! Again, this is a matter
of convenience and not correctness. And also of compactness (lAghava) so dear
to indian grammarians. Why use two character codes for a consonant when one is
enough?<<
As a point of information for the readers ... in the Itrans
convention, aa and A are used interchangeably. And within a document,
one need not stick one or the other. Similarly ii or I.
So I can write --
a aa i ii ....
or
a A i I ...
or
a A i ii ...
and so on.
>>Ok. It seems iTrans has alternatives for dIrgha a i and u. But I am still
>>unable to understand the purpose behind using .h for halanta. Actually, there
>>should never be any situation where we need a character for halanta in this
>>system of writing. For example in 'a i u N.h' why do we need to attach .h
>>when 'N' alone stands for the consonant (without vowel). Or am I missing here
>>something? <<
_______________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
and follow instructions.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090610/7a682329/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:02:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: r_vani ramakrishnan <r_van...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <608903.45299...@web110701.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Sai,
namonamaH.
Fine to have a lesson on grammer from you.?? Welcome.
Here? the answers :
jash.h?? ...? ja ba ga Da da
al.h? -------? All the alphabets from? 'a'? in 1st sutra to 'ha"? in last
(14th) sutra.
hal.h? -----? All consonants from 'ha'? in 5th sutra? to 'la' in 6th sutra i.e
ha, ya, va, ra, la.
yaN.h? ---? ya, va, ra, la
Thank you.
Regards,
D.Ramakrishnan
--- On Tue, 9/6/09, Sai Susarla <sai.susa...@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Sai Susarla <sai.susa...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
To: "sanskrit" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Date: Tuesday, 9 June, 2009, 12:00 AM
keywords: [l2], [grammar]
sarvebhyo namaH !
I want to start a new dhaaraavaahikam or series called "vyaakaraNa
vaibhavam" to help us appreciate the beautiful systematic structure of
the sanskrit language. A couple of months ago, Sarada (my wife) and I
started taking weekly classes in Bangalore on laghu siddhAnta kaumudI
(the commentary to commentary of Panini's aShTaadhyaayii) from Srimaan
venkaTa ramaNa bhaTTa mahodaya, a scholar and excellent teacher in
Sanskrit who lives in Hosakote, 20 km away from Bangalore.
One dimension of Sanskrit's beauty lies in its conciseness and
precision of expression. I heard many things about the remarkable
scientific approach of Sanskrit grammarians and wanted to appreciate
it first hand. As a novice to grammar myself, my hope through this
series is threefold:
1) to tickle scholars on this list to come out and share their wisdom
with others,
2) to irritate them enough to correct me by exposing my ignorance :-)
3) to dispel the notion that Sanskrit grammar is esoteric and hard to
understand, by giving a more intuitive explanation of the concepts. I
feel that as scientists, we are all well-equipped to routinely handle
complex ideas if only those ideas can be presented in a way palatable
to the present-day style of expression.
I have been attempting to understand Sanskrit grammar that way. We all
know that the best way to imbibe knowledge is to share it with others.
By writing about it, our own concepts will be clarified. Feel free to
add more to what I say as well as correct my errors as we go along.
I am a total novice to Sanskrit grammar and am eager to learn.
I will be using laghu siddhAnta kaumudii as the text. You don't have
to read this book, but looking at it would help. I will be using the
ITRANS transliteration convention to write sanskrit in english
alphabet. Though writing in sanskrit script also would help, that's
too much work.
If some expert on the list could write a brief (2 paragraph) intro to
Panini and his approach to grammar, I'd greatly appreciate it. The
write up should generate audience interest in grammar without scaring
them away. Hence the less technical it is, the better.
natvA sarasvatIm devIm shuddhAm guNyaam karomyahaM |
pANiniiya praveshAya laghu siddhAnta kaumudIM ||
Let us start at the very beginning with maaheshvara sUtrANi, the very
origin of Sanskrit alphabet and basis of Panini's grammar.
1) a i u N.h
2) R^i lR^ k.h
3) e o n.h
4) ai au ch.h
5) ha ya va ra t.h
6) la N.h
7) ~na ma ~na Na na m.h
8) jha bha ~n.h
9) gha Dha dha Sh.h
10) ja ba ga Da da sh.h
11) kha pha chha Tha tha cha Ta ta v.h
12) ka pa y.h
13) sha sa sa r.h
14) ha l.h
(the .h at the end of a letter denotes halanta which means 'omit the
akaara at the end' like in raam. Nothing complicated).
If you remove the last alphabet in each line, you will get the
complete Sanskrit alphabet.
These 14 sounds were audible to Rishis when shiva/naTaraaja played his
Dhakka (hand-held drum) 14 times at the end of his evening dance. If
you read them aloud, they indeed sound like those of a drum.
Panini has created an excellent concise convention to refer to
aksharas (syllables) in his entire aShTadhyAyi. For instance, in any
grammar rule if he says aN.h, it should be understood that he's
referring to a, i and u.
So, the short form for all Sanskrit vowels would be ach, which stands for
a i u e o ai au
and the short form for all Sanskrit consonants is hal, which stands for
ha ya va ra la ~na ma ~Na Na na jha bha gha Dha dha ja ba ga Da da
Cool, isn't it?
Hence to understand Sanskrit grammar rules that follow, it is
extremely important to thoroughly memorize these 14 sutras and recite
them even when woken up from deep sleep (as our elders used to say).
A small home work: Figure out what the following abbreviations mean:
jash.h
al.h
hal.h
yaN.h
- Sai.
_______________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
and follow instructions.
Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with Yahoo! India
Travel http://in.travel.yahoo.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090609/c6e1456a/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:19:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: r_vani ramakrishnan <r_van...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <28814.53908...@web110701.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hereunder I am giving the approximate true translation of the english words
into samskrit:
Quantity surveying? =? parimANa pariSIlanA
Quantity surveyor?? =? parimaNa pariSIlakaH
Cost management =? dravya vyavasthApanA
Civil Engineering ?? = ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (can't guess)
Regards,
D.Ramakrishnan
--- On Tue, 9/6/09, Naresh Cuntoor <nares...@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Naresh Cuntoor <nares...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
To: "Sanskrit Mailing List" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Date: Tuesday, 9 June, 2009, 7:35 AM
Please see the message below.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Binil Davis <binilchiray...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:27 AM
Subject: help needed
To: sanskrit-ow...@cs.utah.edu
Hi,
Can anybody help me in getting the sanskrit word for "Quantity
Surveying", "Quantity Surveyor", "Cost management", and "Civil
Engineering" ?
Regards,
Binil
_______________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
and follow instructions.
Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter
http://beta.cricket.yahoo.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090609/b142ae80/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:30:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: r_vani ramakrishnan <r_van...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [Bulk] [L2] Translation request (was: help
needed)
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <977378.49425...@web110712.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thank you Dr. Raman,
D.Ramakrishnan
--- On Tue, 9/6/09, Ambujam Raman <ambujamra...@rogers.com> wrote:
From: Ambujam Raman <ambujamra...@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [Bulk] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
To: "Sanskrit Mailing List" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Date: Tuesday, 9 June, 2009, 1:40 PM
Quantity = parimANaM
survey = nirIkSh
hence
quantity surveying = parimANanirIkShaNaM
quantity surveyor = parimANanirIkShaka
cost = mUlyaM
management = nirvahanaM
hence
cost-management = mUlayanirvahanaM
Dr.S. Raman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Naresh Cuntoor" <nares...@gmail.com>
To: "Sanskrit Mailing List" <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 8:35 AM
Subject: [Bulk] [Sanskrit] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
> Please see the message below.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Binil Davis <binilchiray...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:27 AM
> Subject: help needed
> To: sanskrit-ow...@cs.utah.edu
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Can anybody help me in getting the sanskrit word for "Quantity
> Surveying", "Quantity Surveyor", "Cost management", and "Civil
> Engineering" ?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Binil
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
> and follow instructions.
>
_______________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
and follow instructions.
Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with Yahoo! India
Travel http://in.travel.yahoo.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090609/e02b751e/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:05:35 +0530
From: Venkatesh <nsvnarasi...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Sanskrit] L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma'
To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
Message-ID:
<4c87afae0906100135y72fd5a5k5cfe4ecb68aed...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello all,
It's heartening to see a list where I can post my long standing question. Is
there any grammatical/shiksha/varNakrama/other dictate for swapped
pronounciation of 'h' and 'anunasika' in the words like brahmana, vahni,
ahna, etc.
We have many north Indian scholars who pronounce them as they are written.
At least on eminent scholar in Bangalore, Sri. Bannanje Govindacharya, very
authentically says that the swapped pronounciation is a fallacy. I cannot
believe that the entire gamut of Vedic scholars (particularly in southern
India ), who preserve & revere Vedas more than their own life, could be that
horribly wrong.
A few who tried to answer the question quote, 'hakArannaNamaparanAsikAyaM"
fom taittirya prAtisakhya (21.14). The sUtra however, according to
tribhAShyaratna, vaidikAbharaNa, and padakramasAdana (of mAhiSheya)
commentaries, only introduces an anunAsika 'Ha'kAra after the Ha-kAra when
the later is followed by na/ma/Na.
Could some one kindly through more light on the reason for varied
prnounciation ?
Many regards
Venkatesh
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090610/a64d01ba/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:13:34 +0200
From: Manuel Batsching <batsch...@stud.uni-heidelberg.de>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <4a2f4f0e.4080...@stud.uni-heidelberg.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
This website provides some suggestions for English -> Sanskrit translations:
http://www.spokensanskrit.de
Manuel Batsching
Cynthia Churchill schrieb:
>
> According to Samskrita Bharati's English-Sanskrit dictionary, an
> engineer is *abhiyantaa* or *abhiyantrii* (f.).
>
> I looked up the meaning of "civil engineer" in English: "An engineer
> trained in the design and construction of public works." Perhaps that
> will help in formulating the Sanskrit equivalent...
>
> Cynthia Churchill
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
> and follow instructions.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090610/ffd13a95/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:29:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Karthikeyan Madathil <kmadat...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
To: Sai Susarla <sai.susa...@gmail.com>, sanskrit
<sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <427008.95506...@web39704.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks for starting this series! I've slowly fallen out of touch with my
Sanskrit studies and reading, and I hope the recent activity on the list will
help bring me back on track.
My answers
jash.h - ja ba ga Da da (the "soft" consonants)
al.h - all letters
hal.h - all consonants.
yaN.h - ya ra la va (the 'semivowels')
The ambiguity in hal.h seems to be that there are two possible spans (since ha
occurs twice in the sutra). So, hal.h could mean all consonants or just ha
depending on which instance of ha you start with. Why pick the first? I went
backwards from the fact that "halanta" means consonant, which I suppose is
cheating. :)
The more interesting question is, why does ha appear twice? Perhaps it's useful
to have ha close to the semivowels (yaN.h) as well as the sibilants (shar.h)
for reasons of compactness in sutras? Did this sutra co-evolve with later
sutras that use the keys that this generates?
Similar problem - how does one interpret aN.h? N.h appears twice in the sutra.
Is it a general rule that the larger span wins?
Karthik
________________________________
From: Sai Susarla <sai.susa...@gmail.com>
To: sanskrit <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, 9 June, 2009 10:30:11 AM
Subject: [Sanskrit] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
keywords: [l2], [grammar]
sarvebhyo namaH !
I want to start a new dhaaraavaahikam or series called "vyaakaraNa
vaibhavam" to help us appreciate the beautiful systematic structure of
the sanskrit language. A couple of months ago, Sarada (my wife) and I
started taking weekly classes in Bangalore on laghu siddhAnta kaumudI
(the commentary to commentary of Panini's aShTaadhyaayii) from Srimaan
venkaTa ramaNa bhaTTa mahodaya, a scholar and excellent teacher in
Sanskrit who lives in Hosakote, 20 km away from Bangalore.
One dimension of Sanskrit's beauty lies in its conciseness and
precision of expression. I heard many things about the remarkable
scientific approach of Sanskrit grammarians and wanted to appreciate
it first hand. As a novice to grammar myself, my hope through this
series is threefold:
1) to tickle scholars on this list to come out and share their wisdom
with others,
2) to irritate them enough to correct me by exposing my ignorance :-)
3) to dispel the notion that Sanskrit grammar is esoteric and hard to
understand, by giving a more intuitive explanation of the concepts. I
feel that as scientists, we are all well-equipped to routinely handle
complex ideas if only those ideas can be presented in a way palatable
to the present-day style of expression.
I have been attempting to understand Sanskrit grammar that way. We all
know that the best way to imbibe knowledge is to share it with others.
By writing about it, our own concepts will be clarified. Feel free to
add more to what I say as well as correct my errors as we go along.
I am a total novice to Sanskrit grammar and am eager to learn.
I will be using laghu siddhAnta kaumudii as the text. You don't have
to read this book, but looking at it would help. I will be using the
ITRANS transliteration convention to write sanskrit in english
alphabet. Though writing in sanskrit script also would help, that's
too much work.
If some expert on the list could write a brief (2 paragraph) intro to
Panini and his approach to grammar, I'd greatly appreciate it. The
write up should generate audience interest in grammar without scaring
them away. Hence the less technical it is, the better.
natvA sarasvatIm devIm shuddhAm guNyaam karomyahaM |
pANiniiya praveshAya laghu siddhAnta kaumudIM ||
Let us start at the very beginning with maaheshvara sUtrANi, the very
origin of Sanskrit alphabet and basis of Panini's grammar.
1) a i u N.h
2) R^i lR^ k.h
3) e o n.h
4) ai au ch.h
5) ha ya va ra t.h
6) la N.h
7) ~na ma ~na Na na m.h
8) jha bha ~n.h
9) gha Dha dha Sh.h
10) ja ba ga Da da sh.h
11) kha pha chha Tha tha cha Ta ta v.h
12) ka pa y.h
13) sha sa sa r.h
14) ha l.h
(the .h at the end of a letter denotes halanta which means 'omit the
akaara at the end' like in raam. Nothing complicated).
If you remove the last alphabet in each line, you will get the
complete Sanskrit alphabet.
These 14 sounds were audible to Rishis when shiva/naTaraaja played his
Dhakka (hand-held drum) 14 times at the end of his evening dance. If
you read them aloud, they indeed sound like those of a drum.
Panini has created an excellent concise convention to refer to
aksharas (syllables) in his entire aShTadhyAyi. For instance, in any
grammar rule if he says aN.h, it should be understood that he's
referring to a, i and u.
So, the short form for all Sanskrit vowels would be ach, which stands for
a i u e o ai au
and the short form for all Sanskrit consonants is hal, which stands for
ha ya va ra la ~na ma ~Na Na na jha bha gha Dha dha ja ba ga Da da
Cool, isn't it?
Hence to understand Sanskrit grammar rules that follow, it is
extremely important to thoroughly memorize these 14 sutras and recite
them even when woken up from deep sleep (as our elders used to say).
A small home work: Figure out what the following abbreviations mean:
jash.h
al.h
hal.h
yaN.h
- Sai.
_______________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
and follow instructions.
Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter
http://beta.cricket.yahoo.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090610/77a9fff0/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:13:55 +0530
From: Krishnanand Mankikar <kdmanki...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<2b2948ae0906092343x64d44156u374ec127ac165...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Suggested translations
"Quantity Surveying", = mAtrA paryavekSaNam or saMkhyA paryavekSaNam
"Quantity Surveyor", = mAtrA paryavekSakaH or saMkhyA paryavekSakaH
"Cost management", = mUlya vyavasthApanam
"Civil Engineering" ? = vAstu abhiyAntrikI
Regards
K.D.Mankikar
2009/6/9 Naresh Cuntoor <nares...@gmail.com>
> Please see the message below.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Binil Davis <binilchiray...@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:27 AM
> Subject: help needed
> To: sanskrit-ow...@cs.utah.edu
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Can anybody help me in getting the sanskrit word for "Quantity
> Surveying", "Quantity Surveyor", "Cost management", and "Civil
> Engineering" ?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Binil
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
> and follow instructions.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090610/6af85ead/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:32:59 -0700
From: Ajit Krishnan <ajit.krish...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<b80eb20f0906100632w1dfe5198rdb3f51936c802...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
namaste,
I don't want to dwell on the topic of scripts. But, your arguments do not
resonate with me.
-- So we can easily write this information e.g. like this: (kh)am[u](J)
As you have pointed out, the same thing can be done in devanAgari.
-- But you have to break the syllables using halanta and then write it.
You are mixing together two different things: ISCII input and devanAgari
script. Users of baraha, itranslator etc do not have to type anything extra.
They would type the same number of letters to accomplish (kh)am[u](J) in
nAgari script.
-- And also of compactness (lAghava) so dear to indian grammarians.
You are picking and choosing when to apply lAghava. After all, in order to
achieve lAghava, a grammarian would omit the brackets. In your example,
(kh)am[u](J), these brackets alone consist of 50% of the letters. Once you
choose to add letters, worrying about one extra letter (that too, not a real
letter, but a keystroke) isn't particularly helpful.
Fundamentally, for me, any roman-lipi represenatation of the nasals of
ka-varga and ca-varga is quite sloppy. Similarly with the various letters
with diatrical marks.
bhavadIyaH,
ajit
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090610/5e6a35a2/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:47:37 +0000 (GMT)
From: Anand Mishra <anand...@yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM - Introduction
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <539748.73375...@web27504.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
You are picking and choosing when to apply lAghava. After all, in order to
achieve lAghava, a grammarian would omit the brackets. In your example,
(kh)am[u](J), these brackets alone consist of 50% of the letters. Once you
choose to add letters, worrying about one extra letter (that too, not a real
letter, but a keystroke) isn't particularly helpful.
>>the brackets are extra because I wished to emphasize that the basic unit for
>>grammatical attributes or processes are phonemes or sounds. Here e.g. the
>>attribute of being a marker (which pANini prescribes in 1.3.2 to 1.3.8) is
>>shown which is an added meta-linguistic information. The use of lAghava was
>>more a pun! What I want to emphasize is not the potential or short-comings of
>>any particular script but the convenience of representing and talking in
>>terms of SOUNDS for grammatical purposes. This representation of sounds can
>>then be displayed in any script. In devanAgarI, the basic unit of
>>representation is NOT a fundamental sound but an 'utterable sound' or
>>syllable. You can avoid cases like adding an extra character for halanta
>>every time you need to identify a single consonant.<<
Fundamentally, for me, any roman-lipi represenatation of the nasals of ka-varga
and ca-varga is quite sloppy. Similarly with the various letters with diatrical
marks.
>>Here you are right that none of the schemes are ideal because of the paucity
>>of roman characters. After all, if 'k' is for ka-kAra and 'h' for ha-kAra,
>>then 'kh' --- which is ONE sound unit and not the combination of two previous
>>sounds --- should not be used for kha-kAra. That is why NLP programs for
>>Sanskrit tend to assign unique (sometimes heuristically difficult) characters
>>for aspirated sounds. The limitation will be there, because Sanskrit has more
>>sounds and the tradition identifies very fine differences as well. For
>>example, as pointed out earlier by one participant, there are 18 variations
>>of 'a' alone, depending upon length (mora), accent and nasalization etc. So
>>ideally one should display all the variations. Therefore we need diacritical
>>marks, which is by the way also used in devanAgarI editions of vedic
>>literature where accent is very important.<<
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090610/b4970a3a/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:39:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: horacio vaj <horacio_...@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma'
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <762301.40608...@web56405.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
harih om,
dear venkatesha, my name is suma, i am a sanscrit student from argentina, my
teacher is swamini Brahmaprakashananda Sarasvati from nagpur.
She tough me about the pronunciati?n that you are asking about specialy ,first
we have to pronounce nakara o makara and later the hakara as usual aspirated,
i think there is a panini sutra but i don?t remember surely, other wise you can
be in touch with her ,she is a sanscrit scholar, namaste suma
--- El mi? 10-jun-09, Venkatesh <nsvnarasi...@gmail.com> escribi?:
> De: Venkatesh <nsvnarasi...@gmail.com>
> Asunto: [Sanskrit] L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma'
> Para: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu
> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 10 de junio de 2009, 5:35 am
> Hello all,
>
> It's heartening to see a list where I can post my long
> standing question. Is there any
> grammatical/shiksha/varNakrama/other dictate for swapped
> pronounciation of? 'h' and 'anunasika' in
> the words like brahmana, vahni, ahna, etc.
>
> We have many north Indian scholars who pronounce them as
> they are written. At least on eminent scholar in Bangalore,
> Sri. Bannanje Govindacharya, very authentically says that
> the swapped pronounciation is a fallacy. I cannot believe
> that the entire gamut of Vedic scholars (particularly in
> southern? India ), who preserve & revere Vedas more
> than their own life, could be that horribly wrong.
>
> A few who tried to answer the question quote,
> 'hakArannaNamaparanAsikAyaM" fom taittirya
> prAtisakhya (21.14). The sUtra however, according to
> tribhAShyaratna, vaidikAbharaNa, and padakramasAdana (of
> mAhiSheya) commentaries, only introduces an anunAsika
> 'Ha'kAra after the Ha-kAra when the later is
> followed by na/ma/Na.
>
>
> Could some one kindly through more light on the reason for
> varied prnounciation ?
>
> Many regards
> Venkatesh
>
>
>
> -----Adjunto en l?nea a continuaci?n-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of
> interest, visit
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
> and follow instructions.
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
?Viv? la mejor experiencia en la web!
Descarg? gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8
http://downloads.yahoo.com/ieak8/?l=ar
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:20:28 +0530
From: kamalesh pathak <kamleshsomn...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] L2: Pronounciation of 'brahma'
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<171bab240906100550v558b9e73sb2cdf9ac5f15d...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
venkatesh brother,
i am from Somanath - gujarat being a hindu pandit and a student of veda i
too observe the vast difference of pronouncing mantrAs.
your argument is also true that these poeple preserved vedas in a critical
period.but same time in other parts of india also there were existing some
scholars who kept alive the vedas in a traditional way. and today in the
easy going days we should less criticise them.
of course as per various rules of grammer ( particular for the reciting
vedas ) south and north pronouncing is different but neighter southerns will
change nor northern people will admit new changes.
to us it is more important that even today vedas are living with these
people.
yAdyavalkya shikshA says the pronouncing of yajurveda should like a goat's
voice.
can we ?
so peoples who are trying to spread up vedas in any ways we either should
salute them or support them +ly or at least we should keep silent if we can
not dedicate ourself for the noble work.
namaskAr and jay somanath.
kamalesh pathak
On 10/06/2009, Venkatesh <nsvnarasi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> It's heartening to see a list where I can post my long standing question.
> Is there any grammatical/shiksha/varNakrama/other dictate for swapped
> pronounciation of 'h' and 'anunasika' in the words like brahmana, vahni,
> ahna, etc.
> We have many north Indian scholars who pronounce them as they are written.
> At least on eminent scholar in Bangalore, Sri. Bannanje Govindacharya, very
> authentically says that the swapped pronounciation is a fallacy. I cannot
> believe that the entire gamut of Vedic scholars (particularly in southern
> India ), who preserve & revere Vedas more than their own life, could be that
> horribly wrong.
> A few who tried to answer the question quote, 'hakArannaNamaparanAsikAyaM"
> fom taittirya prAtisakhya (21.14). The sUtra however, according to
> tribhAShyaratna, vaidikAbharaNa, and padakramasAdana (of mAhiSheya)
> commentaries, only introduces an anunAsika 'Ha'kAra after the Ha-kAra when
> the later is followed by na/ma/Na.
>
> Could some one kindly through more light on the reason for varied
> prnounciation ?
>
> Many regards
> Venkatesh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
> and follow instructions.
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090610/1a3f03df/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:24:16 +0530
From: kamalesh pathak <kamleshsomn...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [L2] Translation request (was: help needed)
To: Sanskrit Mailing List <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID:
<171bab240906100554p56ec11dbg518782f2ad57...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Sthapati word in the vishakarmA puran is perhaps used there for civil
engineer. please check it and reply please.
kamalesh pathak
On 10/06/2009, Manuel Batsching <batsch...@stud.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>
> This website provides some suggestions for English -> Sanskrit
> translations:
> http://www.spokensanskrit.de
>
> Manuel Batsching
>
>
> Cynthia Churchill schrieb:
>
>
> According to Samskrita Bharati?s English-Sanskrit dictionary, an engineer
> is *abhiyantaa* or *abhiyantrii* (f.).
>
> I looked up the meaning of ?civil engineer? in English: ?An engineer
> trained in the design and construction of public works.? Perhaps that will
> help in formulating the Sanskrit equivalent...
>
> Cynthia Churchill
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest,
> visithttp://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
> and follow instructions.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription or topics of interest, visit
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
> and follow instructions.
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090610/375f02dd/attachment-0001.html
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:48:59 +0530
From: Sai Susarla <sai.susa...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] FW: [grammar] vyAkaraNa vaibhavaM -
Introduction
To: Avinash Sathaye <so...@ms.uky.edu>, sanskrit
<sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>, iksus...@hotmail.com
Message-ID:
<f9dd91150906110418p7ab1c011r56d26b4a73ee2...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
mitrANi,
Several clarifications regarding the first lesson and the ensuing
discussion.
First, in my over-enthusiasm to send out the first intro email on grammar
ASAP, I didn't proofread it carefully and several typing mistakes happened.
Avinash mahodaya has pointed them out correctly. Please read his reply below
for the corrections.
Second, regarding the ongoing debate about the right way to represent
devanAgari akShara's using english alphabet, ITRANS is a simply a convention
established by modern humans so that there's no ambiguity between the writer
and reader on what akshara is meant, nothing more. Though there may be
merits/demerits to that convention, we are not here to discuss the rationale
behind a convention. As long as people understand what letter is meant,
we're fine. Let's leave it at that.
Third, regarding the ambiguity around hal, I have consulted a scholar in Sri
Sankaracharya viSvavidyalaya in Sringeri, Sri devanatha mahodaya (Cc'ed). It
seems, the maaheSvara sUtrANi are also called pratyAhAra sUtrANi (i.e.,
abbreviational aphorisms) and were designed/modified by pANini for ease of
exposition in the rest of his treatise, aShTaadhyAyii. He arranged the varNa
maala for convenience of use in his sUtras in aShTaadhyAyii. (Please don't
start a religious debate here about who's the original author of maaheSvara
sUtrANi. That's not pertinent here). In that sense, hal is an abbreviation
for the entire set of consonants. halanta is any word that ends in a
consonant and not a vowel - as simple as that.
The repetition of 'ha' in two sUtras was intentional. He needed two
pratyAhAras (abbreviations)
- haT (ha ya va ra) and val (va ra ..... ha) for exposition of some sUtras
and hence the last sUtra 'hal' was added to adhere to the abbreviational
convention. In my next mail, I will write a small blurb about what to expect
from aShTaadhyAyii.
Regarding whether aN.h refers to 'a i u' or 'a i u R^i L^i e ai o au ha ya
va ra la', pANini has used the former definition of aN.h everywhere except
in one sUtra, namely,
aNuditsavarNasyachApratyayaH, where the latter definition is meant. We'll
discuss it when we get there.
I appreciate the keen insights and piercing questions. It shows people's
enthusiasm for Sanskrit grammar. Raise the questions for the record, but
don't answer them deeply yet. Let us not jump ahead of ourselves and get
into detailed discussions regarding nuances at this stage of lessons.
Although from a scientific perspective, precision is important, a little
laxity in our study is good initially; otherwise we'll be lost in the forest
as soon as we enter it.
- Sai.
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 4:27 AM, Avinash Sathaye <so...@ms.uky.edu> wrote:
> I did not want to send a message to everyone, but please correct the
> following sUtras.
> Each syllable in pANinI is crucial(:-))
>
> 2) R^i lR^ k.h
>
> to
>
> 2) R^i L^i k.h
>
> 3) e o n.h
> to
> 3) e o ~N.h
>
>
> 5) ha ya va ra t.h
>
> to
> 5) ha ya va ra T.h
>
> 7) ~na ma ~Na Na na m.h
> to
> 7) ~na ma ~na Na na m.h
>
>
> 13) sha sa sa r.h
> to
> 13) sha Sa sa r.h
>
> it should be sha Sha sa r.h
- Sai
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/pipermail/sanskrit/attachments/20090611/51b7e397/attachment.html
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
To UNSUBSCRIBE or customize your subscription and email delivery, visit
http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/options/sanskrit
and follow instructions.
End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 50, Issue 3
***************************************
