Re: [apple-crop] Copper and Dogs
Hi! Even if the smell was detectable ahead of visible symptoms, it would only happen after infection occurred. At that point, no spraying is possible. So I don’t see how smell would be useful (?) The only management option after infection is pruning out, which can’t be done by smell ;-) Also as everybody knows the sickly sweet smell that FB has, Can a dog be trained to alert on FB before its even apparent to us humans? The whole point of predicting infection (via computers or otherwise) is to help make appropriate spraying decisions, ahead of infection. Vincent Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture) Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment www.irda.qc.ca Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Copper and Dogs
Dogs have been trained to sniff out the citrus greening disease that has been plaguing the Florida citrus industry. Besides being too late for FB the problem with dogs is once they start panting they don't sniff well. Researchers have trained dogs to ride on the back of an ATV while sniffing for greening to prolong their usefulness but once they get hot the dogs are marginally effective. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of lee elliott Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 5:19 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] Copper and Dogs Just how much copper can be safely used in the pring for FB control, I use 2 oz in 100 gal , no sign of russet, have perfect completion even on Pink Lady, and, it looks like we could use a lot more on nursery trees and young trees not fruiting yet. , Also as everybody knows the sickly sweet smell that FB has, Can a dog be trained to alert on FB before its even apparent to us humans? I might trust a dog more than some computor program, anybody ever try this?? On Tue, 8/18/15, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net wrote: Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 10 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2015, 3:17 PM Send apple-crop mailing list submissions to apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net You can reach the person managing the list at apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of apple-crop digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 (David A. Rosenberger) 2. Re: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 (Vincent Philion) 3. Re: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 (Vincent Philion) 4. Re: Looking for comments on fire blight management (Smith, Timothy J) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:37:13 + From: David A. Rosenberger da...@cornell.edu To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 Message-ID: 0e94bf9f-5e75-4f1c-bdea-df6acd4db...@cornell.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Strep is extremely stable if it is kept dry and out of direct light (e.g., in a closed cardboard drum or foil package). It does break down in sunlight. I don?t know if other components in the formulations might ?age out? and become less effective (e.g., less surfactant activity), but the strep itself should remain stable. Strep sprays are NOT a waste of money IF (1) inoculum is present at bloom, and (2) weather conditions favor flower infection during bloom. Unfortunately, none of the available models can predict whether or not inoculum is present in any give orchard, so we end up spraying orchards that really would not need protection if we had a way of knowing that they were free of inoculum AND that that no inoculum would be brought to the orchard throughout the remainder of the bloom period. Lacking such a tool, strep provides valuable protection even though it may not be needed in many cases where it is applied. Of course, strep applied during bloom does not prevent shoot blight if inoculum arrives in the orchard only AFTER bloom is over, but shoot blight is generally far more severe in orchards where there was at least a bit of blossom blight. Bottom line is that strep does not resolve all problems with fire blight, but without strep we would have a lot more orchards being bulldozed every year due to fire blight epidemics. There are some relatively new alternatives to strep, but all of them are either more expensive, less reliable, or (usually) both. And the fact that I am promoting the value of strep sprays does not negate the possibility that increasing copper nutrition could be beneficial. In fact, applying a low rate of copper in all spring sprays as Lee Elliot has suggested could be really beneficial in terms of reducing blight inoculum within the orchard before and during bloom. However, I also suspect that in some years and with some cultivars, those in-season copper sprays will cause at least a bit of fruit russetting. Just because copper russetting has not be noted this year or last year or even for the past five years, one cannot be certain that it will NEVER be a problem. Dave Rosenberger, Plant
Re: [apple-crop] Copper and Dogs
Dogs are just alerting to the presence of the foul brood bacteria in bee hives. Not an actual infection. The idea is to find it and treat them before infection just like in fireblight. I bet they can smell it before you're actually infected, provided you had samples to train the dog on in the first place. Not something the average nursery could probably do. Would need cultures of blight to train the dogs on. On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Fleming, William w...@montana.edu wrote: Dogs have been trained to sniff out the citrus greening disease that has been plaguing the Florida citrus industry. Besides being too late for FB the problem with dogs is once they start panting they don't sniff well. Researchers have trained dogs to ride on the back of an ATV while sniffing for greening to prolong their usefulness but once they get hot the dogs are marginally effective. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of lee elliott Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 5:19 AM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] Copper and Dogs Just how much copper can be safely used in the pring for FB control, I use 2 oz in 100 gal , no sign of russet, have perfect completion even on Pink Lady, and, it looks like we could use a lot more on nursery trees and young trees not fruiting yet. , Also as everybody knows the sickly sweet smell that FB has, Can a dog be trained to alert on FB before its even apparent to us humans? I might trust a dog more than some computor program, anybody ever try this?? On Tue, 8/18/15, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net wrote: Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 10 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2015, 3:17 PM Send apple-crop mailing list submissions to apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net You can reach the person managing the list at apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of apple-crop digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 (David A. Rosenberger) 2. Re: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 (Vincent Philion) 3. Re: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 (Vincent Philion) 4. Re: Looking for comments on fire blight management (Smith, Timothy J) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:37:13 + From: David A. Rosenberger da...@cornell.edu To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 Message-ID: 0e94bf9f-5e75-4f1c-bdea-df6acd4db...@cornell.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Strep is extremely stable if it is kept dry and out of direct light (e.g., in a closed cardboard drum or foil package). It does break down in sunlight. I don?t know if other components in the formulations might ?age out? and become less effective (e.g., less surfactant activity), but the strep itself should remain stable. Strep sprays are NOT a waste of money IF (1) inoculum is present at bloom, and (2) weather conditions favor flower infection during bloom. Unfortunately, none of the available models can predict whether or not inoculum is present in any give orchard, so we end up spraying orchards that really would not need protection if we had a way of knowing that they were free of inoculum AND that that no inoculum would be brought to the orchard throughout the remainder of the bloom period. Lacking such a tool, strep provides valuable protection even though it may not be needed in many cases where it is applied. Of course, strep applied during bloom does not prevent shoot blight if inoculum arrives in the orchard only AFTER bloom is over, but shoot blight is generally far more severe in orchards where there was at least a bit of blossom blight. Bottom line is that strep does not resolve all problems with fire blight, but without strep we would have a lot more orchards being bulldozed every year due to fire blight epidemics. There are some relatively new alternatives to strep, but all of them are either more expensive, less reliable, or (usually) both. And the fact that I am promoting the value of strep sprays does not negate the possibility that increasing copper nutrition could be beneficial. In fact, applying a low rate of copper in all spring sprays
