Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Code Sharing - (Re: [CODE4LIB] journal)
My point yesterday was not just about the dangers of the small group (although that's true too), but more that if you go down the path of starting a journal it makes sense to be really clear about your goals, and the audience you expect to serve. Which in turn drives the format and content. *If* you want to attract people on the fringes, then you might need to do a little bit of legwork to find out what sort of content appeals to them and make sure to provide at least some of that. If serving the people who have already decided to participate is the goal, then you've already got your finger on that pulse. To pick up on your question of perception: I lurk on this list and I decided to submit a proposal to the conference because others in this community are working on similar problems. And I was really struck by the openness of the process...decisions made by vote, not by an invisible conference panel. I think that the same openness was reflected in things like the lightening talk format at the conference. And that's all good. But stepping into more formalized things like journals and going after nonprofit status takes things up a notch in terms of the need for awareness of your goals, and how you present and conduct yourselves, because it becomes a reflection of a professional peer group. That's non-trivial. Which way you go depends on whether you intend to grow beyond the current self-selected participants. That's not a value judgement...just an observation. Finis. I promise. :-) --C It's been nice to see this thread in public...since oftentimes discussion happens in real time in IRC (which isn't publicly logged-- yet). I think Colleen is right to point out the dangers of having a 'core group'. But I would argue that the core group is really a mirage, and that up until now it has simply been people who've decided to participate (for better or for worse) in #code4lib. //Ed
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Code Sharing - (Re: [CODE4LIB] journal)
On 2/22/06, Andrew Nagy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sorry if this was already stated. This sounds like the textualize site which has what appears to be drupal and then trac/svn. I think something could be done with just the trac/svn as it has wiki, bugtracking and source control. The scope of the site would probably have to be discussed though. If people start posting lots of code snippets to the wiki it could easily become hard to find things. Thanks for the citation :-) I created textualize.com just as a place to hang my consulting/hobby stuff. If the new/improved oss4lib existed at the time I imagine I would have created project pages for the software packages on there. In many ways I think that what you are asking for in the way of project space for particular libraries/code snippets could fit in well with what Dan has in mind for oss4lib, leaving code4lib/journal to be more discursive and "how I did x". //Ed
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Code Sharing - (Re: [CODE4LIB] journal)
Thanks Jeff for summarizing all the great ideas so well. It's pretty overwhelming and inspiring to see this groundswell of interest in working together as a community. I blame jaf. If you don't feel like reading this whole email the rest can basically be summarized as saying code4lib.org is available for this journal experiment. We can put additional drupal modules, other software on there too if it would help. -- continue at your own risk -- At code4libcon Casey Bisson indicated that he would like to export the content in libdev.plymouth.edu into code4lib.org. In a lot of ways I think that libdev and /usr/lib/info could serve as good models for what kind of content could be present in a code4lib journal...well in addition to all the great stuff that Art and Roy already floated. So far things have been happening on the code4lib.org site in an adhoc way. Different people like Roy, Dan, Art, Jeremy have just decided to suggest certain things or to do them. It would be neat if it could continue to evolve this way. At the moment there are 4 people who have access to the machine and the drupal footprint. There are lots of administrators who can modify the content via the admin screens. If you'd like admin access please email me, or respond on the list here, or drop into IRC. I've been confused about how the code4lib.org site should be used post-conference, and this 'new kind of journal' idea sounds like a great experiment. How about we start posting content (as Dan has already) and see what happens? As far as I'm concerned code4lib.org is fair game for whatever we want to try out. The machine that code4lib.org is running on is an experiment in itself since it was started by Kevin Clarke and Clay Redding as a communal machine for library technologists to share. If you are interested in participating I think there is room. It's been nice to see this thread in public...since oftentimes discussion happens in real time in IRC (which isn't publicly logged-- yet). I think Colleen is right to point out the dangers of having a 'core group'. But I would argue that the core group is really a mirage, and that up until now it has simply been people who've decided to participate (for better or for worse) in #code4lib. //Ed
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Code Sharing - (Re: [CODE4LIB] journal)
On 2/23/06, Ryan Eby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.textualize.com/ > > Again I'm unsure if we would be looking at mostly small snippets and > functions or full fledged classes/libraries. Thanks for pointing this out; looks good. Now with any of this, it not so much the actual libraries and classes that are of interest to me, but clever code to *use* them. And, to a big degree, it is talking about application design that I fear that we're overlooking. This is where all that "we did X, and here's good and here's bad about that approach" comes in really handy; how do we design for our audience, please the business side and make it look good in the process? The tools should support at least these three fundamental things, and I would hope that the journal discussed appraoched *design* more than code. As an example, how does it change our development infrastructure when moving to a SOA? I can write *books* about this topic, mostly positive. :) But this discussion seems to float to the edges (not geeky enough for geeks, not business enough for the business people, even though both can recognise the value of it) A journal could be a lever to use to push the importance of things that are on the fringe of things onto the real agenda. 2 cents worth. Alex -- "Ultimately, all things are known because you want to believe you know." - Frank Herbert __ http://shelter.nu/ __
Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Code Sharing - (Re: [CODE4LIB] journal)
On 2/22/06, Andrew Nagy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I spoke with some of you at the restaurant Thursday night during the > conference briefly about a code sharing site for code4libbers. The > OSS4Lib site is a great resource for libraries considering the world of > open source; however, I think much like the CPAN or PEAR code > repositories, a code4lib repository would act as a great place for us to > "whiteboard" and share code much like Art mentions above. A place to > not share full blown applications, but a place to post our hacks and > code libraries that we have written. > > As a member of the PEAR development community, I know that the web > application that runs this is open-source and has ties to CVS for code > management, Bug tracking much like bugzilla, and most importantly, a > place to write documentation for each code snippet. I'm not necessarily > advocating for an implementation of the PEAR web application, but it's > concept for the Code4Lib website. Maybe even a DSpace implementation > would work? Even a CVS or Subversion repository at it's simplest would > help. > > Would the maintainers of the Code4Lib website be willing to > support/implement such an application? > Sorry if this was already stated. This sounds like the textualize site which has what appears to be drupal and then trac/svn. I think something could be done with just the trac/svn as it has wiki, bugtracking and source control. The scope of the site would probably have to be discussed though. If people start posting lots of code snippets to the wiki it could easily become hard to find things. If it's mostly code libraries or full classes I think it could work on that alone. http://www.textualize.com/ http://www.textualize.com/trac/ I also think a central code repository / code snippets would be a good idea. There's a few interesting ones out there for snippets including this one: http://www.bigbold.com/snippets/ Again I'm unsure if we would be looking at mostly small snippets and functions or full fledged classes/libraries.
[CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Code Sharing - (Re: [CODE4LIB] journal)
Art Rhyno wrote: I guess I am looking for more recipe sharing, comments in the margins, and whiteboarding, I wouldn't want to break or detract from anything that is working now. All of this happens virtually at some level, but there's still some impedance when compared to lightning talks and physical gatherings, and sadly, there's a limit to how many conference events can be mounted. I spoke with some of you at the restaurant Thursday night during the conference briefly about a code sharing site for code4libbers. The OSS4Lib site is a great resource for libraries considering the world of open source; however, I think much like the CPAN or PEAR code repositories, a code4lib repository would act as a great place for us to "whiteboard" and share code much like Art mentions above. A place to not share full blown applications, but a place to post our hacks and code libraries that we have written. As a member of the PEAR development community, I know that the web application that runs this is open-source and has ties to CVS for code management, Bug tracking much like bugzilla, and most importantly, a place to write documentation for each code snippet. I'm not necessarily advocating for an implementation of the PEAR web application, but it's concept for the Code4Lib website. Maybe even a DSpace implementation would work? Even a CVS or Subversion repository at it's simplest would help. Would the maintainers of the Code4Lib website be willing to support/implement such an application? Thanks, I really enjoyed the conference. Andrew
